What Would YOU see as being "Disputable Doctrines?"

[preacher4truth]

Could that be why paul gloried in the CROSS, and NOT in his own faith?

Yes. He gloried in grace and the calling and determined counsel of God upon his life, not his "faith" (i.e. the mystical, mustered up faith akin to sitting on a kitchen chair easy-believism nonense) :thumbsup:

 

[JesusFan]

Yes. He gloried in grace and the calling and determined counsel of God upon his life, not his "faith" (i.e. the mystical, mustered up faith akin to sitting on a kitchen chair easy-believism nonense) :thumbsup:

Strange that some here belittle Cals for havong "fake/superficial/not bilical" faith of God "injecting it in us"

yet hold that faith is what saves us themselves!

 

[Tom Bryant]

No one denied it.

Calvinist = Christian.

Your understanding of faith is amiss. Faith doesn't save, grace does, but you haven't advanced to recognize or discern this rudimentary truth.

Pardon me, Calvinist=Christian???????????? I think you're claiming something that other Calvinists have never come close to claiming.

Luke 8:48 - And He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace.”


Luke 18:42 - And Jesus said to him, “ Receive your sight; your faith has made you well.”


Colossians 1:4 - since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints;


1 Peter 1:9 - obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.


Faith in itself is not what saves anyone. It is faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the payment for our sins. No saved person believes that it is just faith that saves us.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Jesus Alone folks......

1 John 5:11-12

New International Version (NIV)

11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

 

[Iconoclast]

No, It means you choose a church carefully; one that puts an emphasis.
It is one reason to stay away from the Charismatic movement who put experience as more important than doctrine.
A well known Charismatic radio host was quoted as praying:
"Oh Lord, Deliver us from doctrine."
They sacrifice doctrine on the altar of unity.

:thumbsup::applause::thumbsup:

 

[preacher4truth]

Pardon me, Calvinist=Christian???????????? I think you're claiming something that other Calvinists have never come close to claiming.

Luke 8:48 - And He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace.”


Luke 18:42 - And Jesus said to him, “ Receive your sight; your faith has made you well.”


Colossians 1:4 - since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints;


1 Peter 1:9 - obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

Faith in itself is not what saves anyone. It is faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the payment for our sins. No saved person believes that it is just faith that saves us.

I'll pardon you at your request. Calvinists are Christians. That you say they've never claimed themselves Christian is unfortunate.

Clearly I said just as you've said that faith doesn't save, or that "just faith" cannot save alone. But at the same time you present Scriptures seeming to present that faith does save. You seem to be thoroughly confused, and tend to attempt to embrace both sides at the same time. I take it that you are deficient in your understanding while making pretense to understand whist playing both sides of the fence.

So you're saying Calvinist brethren are not Christian? I said "Calvinist = Christian" and you disagree that Calvinists are Christian? Yes? No?

Faith has never saved anyone. Grace? Yes, that is whereby and wherewithal all are saved. Faith is merely a byproduct of grace.

 

[Amy.G]

How about this as a disputable doctrine that is infecting the church?

Evangelicals question the existence of Adam and Eve.

From the article:

"I think this is going to be a pivotal point in Church history," he says. "Because what rests at the very heart of this debate is whether or not key ideas within Christianity are ultimately true or not."

 

[preacher4truth]

How about this as a disputable doctrine that is infecting the church?

Evangelicals question the existence of Adam and Eve.

From the article:

I heard some of this the other day, and I take Adam and Eve as two literal persons within the Scriptures.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I'll pardon you at your request. Calvinists are Christians. That you say they've never claimed themselves Christian is unfortunate.

Clearly I said just as you've said that faith doesn't save, or that "just faith" cannot save alone. But at the same time you present Scriptures seeming to present that faith does save. You seem to be thoroughly confused, and tend to attempt to embrace both sides at the same time. I take it that you are deficient in your understanding while making pretense to understand whist playing both sides of the fence.

So you're saying Calvinist brethren are not Christian? I said "Calvinist = Christian" and you disagree that Calvinists are Christian? Yes? No?

Faith has never saved anyone. Grace? Yes, that is whereby and wherewithal all are saved. Faith is merely a byproduct of grace.

Preacher, please don't try to change what you put down as a equation. Your statement was

Calvinist = Christian

If you are equating being a Calvinist with being a believer in Christ, you have just said I am not a Christian because I am not a Calvinist. I am not saying that Calvinists are not Christians. I AM saying that just because a person is a Calvinist doesn't mean they are a Christian. A christian is a person who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, not the doctrines of John Calvin. I don't think you mean that. At least I hope you don't mean that.

Yes, I gave Scriptures that say that faith does save. They were exactly that: Scriptures. Jesus said it. Paul said it. It was obviously faith in Jesus. But it was still faith. The Bible said it, not me. Your issue is with the Scripture.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Faith has never saved anyone. Grace? Yes, that is whereby and wherewithal all are saved. Faith is merely a byproduct of grace.

:thumbs::thumbs::jesus:

 

[preacher4truth]

Preacher, please don't try to change what you put down as a equation. Your statement was


If you are equating being a Calvinist with being a believer in Christ, you have just said I am not a Christian because I am not a Calvinist. I am not saying that Calvinists are not Christians. I AM saying that just because a person is a Calvinist doesn't mean they are a Christian. A christian is a person who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, not the doctrines of John Calvin. I don't think you mean that. At least I hope you don't mean that.

Yes, I gave Scriptures that say that faith does save. They were exactly that: Scriptures. Jesus said it. Paul said it. It was obviously faith in Jesus. But it was still faith. The Bible said it, not me. Your issue is with the Scripture.

Not even close, nothing I've stated says you aren't a believer in Christ. This is really uncalled for here and I will explain what I meant in this reply. You are reading way more into this than is necessary. And as a matter of fact, I wasn't aware of your theological position, and never has it ever come to mind which camp you are in. It really doesn't matter as long as one is in Christ. I will state that I think yuo are somewhat mistaken as to what faith is and to what grace is and which one has really saved the believer.

My equation stands as within the context of this thread, in that, the Calvinist brethren here on the BB are Christian, that was my intent. Thus Calvinist=Christian. My intent was not that Calvinists are the only ones who are Christian, nor was it my intent, nor is it my belief that those who are not Calvinist are not Christian.

Back to "faith saves." You state it doesn't save, then say it does. I say grace saves, so do the Scriptures. No need to say I have a problem/issue with Scriptures, which is totally unecessary and unwarranted. What we could say is I see the Scriptures stating Grace saves, and have a differing view of the Scriptures you present, and interpret them in light of that dogma, that is that grace saves alone.

I hope this clears it up for you. :thumbsup:

 

[Tom Bryant]

It does clear it up about what you meant by the equation. I think it could have been stated better. I certainly don't think that Calvinists are not saved. I don't know where anyone had even intimated that. But it certainly was not me. Thank you for clarifying.

I am not saying that faith saves. I am saying that faith in Christ alone saves. I believe in faith alone in Christ alone. That is the position, I believe of the Bible. So when the Bible talks about faith, it is talking about faith in Christ. The people were healed by their faith in Christ. People are saved by their faith in Christ.

I understand that we will differ about how that faith comes about. I can fully understand why you believe the Bible teaches that. I don't think that is what the Bible is teaching.

I believe that I over-reacted because I thought you were saying that we believe that just any ol' faith will save a person. That is not what I believe and certainly not the belief of any truly saved person.

Please forgive the over-reaction.

 

[JesusFan]

Preacher, please don't try to change what you put down as a equation. Your statement was


If you are equating being a Calvinist with being a believer in Christ, you have just said I am not a Christian because I am not a Calvinist. I am not saying that Calvinists are not Christians. I AM saying that just because a person is a Calvinist doesn't mean they are a Christian. A christian is a person who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, not the doctrines of John Calvin. I don't think you mean that. At least I hope you don't mean that.

Yes, I gave Scriptures that say that faith does save. They were exactly that: Scriptures. Jesus said it. Paul said it. It was obviously faith in Jesus. But it was still faith. The Bible said it, not me. Your issue is with the Scripture.

Think that Death of Jesus as atonement for our Sins , and that grace being applied to us is what saves us, an dthat the Sotierology "model" is the way that we understand just HOW God did that!

I do beklive that DoG are the "best' way to express that truth, but would not go so far as some to say "only" way!

 

[Aaron]

Or they could choose to put you in the DoG house......LOL Just kidding Bro. Tom.

ROFLOL!:thumbs:

 

[Aaron]

I'll mention this again. If you ever go through a church fight, you will go to great lengths to avoid going through one again. Our church did 30 years ago, and I vowed I'd never go through another one, unless it was over doctrine.

I won't sacrifice doctrine for the sake of unity, but I'll sacrifice getting my way. And, rarely is doctrine the cause of division.

I no longer attend business meetings and will not get involved in any issue or express an opinion when it involves money.

I'm a DoG, everybody in the church, including my pastor, knows that.

:laugh::thumbs: I'm a DoG, too!

 

[Aaron]

Think that the Church is going down the slippery slope of believing that God is not the Saviour of us, that somehow we save ourselves, or at least " allow/permit/co assistance" Him in the salvation process!

Its almostlike 'we are NOT that bad!"

:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Aaron]

"Doubtful disputations" would be a better way to word it. There are no disputable doctrines.

Those who are weak in the faith have not yet cast off many of their carnal and superstitious notions about the nature of certain foods and certain days. (This is not about the Sabbath.) And it should be noted that these are Jewish customs of which Paul is speaking, and that deference should be paid for the sake of the conscience of a true believer. Paul had Timothy circumcised for the Jews, but he would not allow Titus to be circumcised for the Judaizers.

 

[DHK]

I think Preach was an IFB Pastor & a Non Cal at one time....This is just what I gathered...could be incorrect as it is an assumption.

Possibly so. He doesn't like the word "ignorance". But that is what he posts out of--ignorance of what the non-Cal believes. If he had the knowledge of what the non-Cal believes (or at least most of us here) he wouldn't post the things that he does.

 

[DHK]

Strange that some here belittle Cals for havong "fake/superficial/not bilical" faith of God "injecting it in us"

yet hold that faith is what saves us themselves!

This is another one of those needles aspersions on non-Cals, posted out of ignorance or just plain meanness. If the latter, it is against the BB rules and worthy of an infraction.

We believe in John 14:6. Only Christ can save.

 

[DHK]

I'll pardon you at your request. Calvinists are Christians. That you say they've never claimed themselves Christian is unfortunate.

Clearly I said just as you've said that faith doesn't save, or that "just faith" cannot save alone. But at the same time you present Scriptures seeming to present that faith does save. You seem to be thoroughly confused, and tend to attempt to embrace both sides at the same time. I take it that you are deficient in your understanding while making pretense to understand whist playing both sides of the fence.

So you're saying Calvinist brethren are not Christian? I said "Calvinist = Christian" and you disagree that Calvinists are Christian? Yes? No?

Faith has never saved anyone. Grace? Yes, that is whereby and wherewithal all are saved. Faith is merely a byproduct of grace.

You are truly confused.
No, faith doesn't save. None of us ever said it did.
Contrary to your beliefs, grace doesn't save either. You are confused.

For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves.
Only Christ can save. He alone saves.
Not faith; not grace. Only Christ.
The grace is the grace shown to us at the cross by Jesus Christ.
Faith is the means by which one is saved.
Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.

Do you believe in sola fide?