Is There a difference between practicing Homosexuality and celibete?

Matt, I thank God for his work in your life. And I don't want to diminish the seriousness of the discussion, but your question aroused in me a desire that I can't resist--to tell this joke.

The question you asked came up in a gathering one time and a fellow answered it this way: "The difference between an alcoholic and a drunk is that the drunk doesn't have to go to the meetings."

 

I totally disagree. One can be of that mindset and not practice it, just as someone can be tempted to cheat on a spouse and not practice it.
Whether born that way or a product of the environment and lifestyle they were raised in doesn't matter. Everybody is born with the propensity towards sin and their weakness may be of any type, from who they're attracted to, self-control, addiction, lying, theft, anger, unforgiveness, greed, what have you.

Nobody, in their mind, is pure enough that if we were to know their mind, we'd not be able to point out some major type of sin that they fight against. The whole POINT of living like Christ is to fight the war against our own flesh.
Remember one of the most devout believers in the history of Christianity, Origen of Alexandria, that castrated himself because he took the idea of whatever offends you, ie causes you to sin, pluck it out? He apparently battled with wrong thoughts and that was his way of overcoming it.

Everyone is so sinful we are worthy of DEATH and HELL and Christ died to overcome that and still warns us over and over and over against sin and to fight against the very real, very strong temptation to sin. That temptation is always, always with every single human being with breath. If it isn't your sin, it doesn't mean it's worse than yours. No more blood was shed for someone who struggled with homosexuality than the amount shed for whatever sin it is you struggle against.

 

You need to settle down and read what I wrote. My point was that no person who is battling with any sinful desire including homosexuality should hold any office in the church. The bible says the man is to be above reproach. How would you like someone to be your youth pastor who was battling pedophilia?

 

Celibate Does not Change Ones Thought Process!

I don't believe that because a person claims to be a homosexual and celibate, makes any difference. The moniker of homosexual must be removed by the blood of Jesus, and until it is, they have done nothing but made a claim that they still believe the old way, with one difference, they say they are celibate.

Well, priests may proclaim that they are celibate, and take a both of celibacy, but, from all the recent arrests for molestation and civil law suits against the church and its celibate priests, it is clear that a good portion of those celibate priests is merely priests.

I'd prefer, they confess that they are saved by His grace, and the stripes of their past have all but passed away, and they are now a new creature in Christ.

Shalom,

Pastor Paul :type:

 

I understand that you feel nobody battling a sinful desire should hold an office in church.
I feel that "battling a sinful desire" describes every human being on this planet.

Can you honestly say you do not have a weakness that you battle against on a regular basis? I have yet to meet someone who doesn't have, at minimum, one certain sinful weakness they must remain aware of and guard against to keep under control.

Lust. Pride. Anger. There are so many possibilities.

Your example was someone who battles pedophilia but isn't practicing it working with youth. Nobody who battles this should be in a position where they work with children. Nobody who battles with pride should be a soloist. Nobody who battles against the desire to learn and grow should be a teacher. Nobody who battles with theft should manage the church's business accounts. Nobody who battles with gossip should become a counselor. The list could go on.

What I find disturbing and what works me up is picking one sin that a person finds particularly disturbing, one which I agree is sin but do find possible that a person could be born with that inclination, and using it to say that the person with that particular sin is unworthy to hold any leadership position.

 

Your belief and mine is the difference between a liberal and a conservative. One who believes the bible and one who does not. The person who is put into an office is to be above reproach from any sin and I believe that and you do not. You stand against the word making excuses and I stand for it as intended.

 

There's really no arguing with that. I had hoped to bring about decent discussion concerning the idea that nobody is above reproach if we judge them based on their thoughts rather than their actions, as nobody's mind is completely pure. I don't believe my approach goes against the Bible, but if that's your opinion, so be it.

 

Folks, there's a reason why this particular viewpoint strikes a lot of us as ludicrous.

Wanna know what that reason is?

I'll give you a hint: It has to do with the fact that no man can know another's heart....

 

Can I Get an Amen?

....that is a bold proclamation, and one that you have hit right out of the park! Gina has always beena humble presence on the board, and she was moving in that direction, even after she was unfairly called a liberal!:tear:

 

For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he. Your question is, is one who is so perverse as to have an unnatural sexual attraction to the same gender qualified to hold office?

No.

 

Don there is this new thing out there. I'll give you a hint but don't spread it around as it is a secret. Ask the one being screened for the position if they are battling any ongoing sin.
For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he. So is one who has an sexual attraction to the same gender disqualified to hold office?

YES!

 

In contradiction to my citation of Proverbs and to Christ's Sermon on the Mount, you asserted that "homosexuality is the literal practice of same sex relations." In other words, you said that one is not a homosexual if he isn't having sex. In the light of your error concerning the testimony of Scripture, your opinion on the qualifications of office can't be considered authoritive.

Add to that, that you have added to the office the unbiblical requirement of celibacy.

Oh, and Don is all wet. One CAN know what is in another's heart.

 

As usual you twist what another writes. Don't you fear God at all and what He says?
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

I suppose you could just be limited in ability to comprehend what you read and you would escape that judgment but I certainly wonder.

Fist off this is about what the bible says as for qualifications for a Pastor/leader in the church. Here is what you asked;
"Is There a difference between practicing Homosexuality and celibete"
"In reards to being able to hold official ministry/teaching positions within a church?"

First I assume you mean celibate not "celibete. In regards to a person who is having battles with the desire of homosexuality they are disqualified based on the biblical qualifications. That would be true if they were having on going battles with any sin. Here is what the position requires in qualifications.

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

The Greek word for "blameless" means; that cannot be reprehended, not open to censure, irreproachable.

In other words No one can point to anything in the life of this person and make accusations they have an improper lifestyle or even hidden desires that they are covering up. It is not enough to not do a sin. If we are entertaining the sin we are guilty of the sin.
For as he thinketh in his heart, so [is] he

Unless the person has not overcome even the entertaining of sin as a practice they are not qualified.

 

You really don't get it do you? :tonofbricks: