Why would God punish people that have no chance of salvation?

:thumbs::thumbs:

 

ahem..... the death of Christ is sufficient for all. The atonement will only cover the sins of believers. You think will agree with me on those two points. The atonement was never meant to save unbelievers.

 

No, it's valid. They sinned and will be punished in hell. It's valid because we see that those angels sinned and deserve punishment in hell. God never gave them an opportunity to repent. He didn't die for them. They have no chance of salvation. God is perfectly just to send them to hell.

We have to remember the statement in the OP.

The question was why does God send people to hell without a chance to repent. Well, they do have a chance first of all. But even if they didn't, God is perfectly just to send them to hell.

People sinned and deserve hell. I have sinned. I deserve hell. God has saved me of which I have nothing to brag about. I didn't deserve it. I didn't' deserve even the opportunity. The problem with the OP is it comes from two faulty premises.

1. People to go hell for unbelief and not sin.
-- No, people go to hell because they are sinners and deserve hell. They were given an opportunity to repent and believe(which wasn't required nor deserved) and have rejected. So yes, a secondary cause can be said because they didn't believe, but the primary cause is punished for their sin. They are now going to have to pay because they rejected the substitutionary payment Christ made on the cross.


2. People have the right to the opportunity to repent.
-- No, people do not have this right. It's not deserved. If God never saved anyone, we would all be getting exactly what we deserve. Thanks to God that He is a merciful God that has shown his great mercy in saving us.

 

What does sufficient to all mean to you? If it is limited it cannot be sufficient for those not made for.

...but Christ didn't die for Angels, He died for humans meaning the two cannot be compared.

 

Tell me what you disagree with in what I said. Which area do you agree and which disagree.

It's compared because he didn't die for angles, but is perfectly just to send them to hell.

 

I disagree that it can be sufficient for someone not intended or made for. I was trying to delve into this from a closed thread here http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=74714

...and He would also be perfectly just for resurrecting every animal in Heaven, but that's apples and oranges. We are discussing Christ's death, His atonement and how it relates to human beings not angelic beings.

 

If men are born sinners with a nature that cannot possibly choose for God through no choice or fault of their own, and can only do evil continually, then they do not deserve punishment, they deserve pity.

This is not unlike people who are born with a handicap. We do not punish people born with handicaps, and any person who did would be considered cruel and inhuman. Yet many here believe God is just to punish men who are born handicapped with a sinful nature that cannot possibly do good or trust in God through no fault or choice of their own. This is horrendous error and would make man more loving and merciful than God. This is a gross misrepresentation of God.

 

I did not add to the scriptures, because this was a question only. I do not know why the angels were apparently never afforded the opportunity to repent after they followed Lucifer and his deeds. I was just asking this to gather people's thoughts on this "scenario".

 

You still haven't answered the question. How is it fair that jungle boy, either raised in the Assyrian Empire thousands of years before Christ or born in a secluded area thousands of years after Christ, be held responsible for accepting or rejecting the Gospel he has never heard?

You have accused the Calvinist of having an unfair God, so I'm asking you how this senerio above is fair under the anti-Calvinist doctrine. You have God creating individuals who never have an opportunity to hear of the God of the Hebrews or of their Messiah Jesus yet are still held accountable for their unbelief. Please answer.

 

It would do them no good to repent even if they wanted to because there was never an atonement made for angels.

 

Read Romans 1.

 

You're welcome, Brother.

Agreed.

Who has known the mind of the Lord, and who can be His counsellor. He does it His way, and not our ways, agreed.

This sums up God's Righteousness and Justice.

God will save all who call upon His name. Anyone who wants salvation can, and will, obtain it. I rejoice in knowing this much about Him. :thumbs::thumbs:

 

I have. Now you explain it to me. If you can.

 

Yes I can see why it is confusing. I was answering a question other then what was being suggested. Just disregard what I wrote.

To be more on topic God does not keep anyone from repenting.

 

I would love for you to point to me where I was hateful or disrespectful to you. But you won't because I wasn't.

The reason you won't answer my question is because you can't. You see it is easy to accuse Calvinist of having an "unfair" God, but when the tables are turned, there is silence. Seems there is one standard for Calvinists and another for anti-Calvinists. Continue to ignore me, but everyone reading knows the question remains and is unanswered.