Grace: potential or actual

Yes that is what it says. There were two groups. One wanted to learn of God, one was self righteous and didn't see their need for salvation. Stop looking at it through Calvinism.

 

Reply to Aaron,

I have been waiting a long time for even one Calvinist to not misrepresent what I say and I am still waiting. We are conceived with the "old man" corrupted nature, and therefore we have a hard time not sinning from conception. Our corruption did not begin with our first sin, but Adam's did. And that is exactly what the Bible says, sir.

 

I am just telling you the way it was.
The heart was pure at creation and Adam chose to corrupt it.
We have a choice.

 

I agree. When some see they are losing the battle they miss-represent what is said. Also you are correct about Adam. He chose to corrupt himself.

 

Cry all you want. You have no choice but to say sin springs from a pure heart.

 

Christ said a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. You're saying Adam was good till he brought forth evil fruit. Gotta go with Christ on this one . . . sir.

 

Somehow Aaron, don't see that too many of us will be crying over this. If you wish to be content that your position on the matter has it all neatly "tied up", well that is OK.

 

Did God create a corrupt man? You seem to be saying that God is the author of Adam's sin.

 

Please show where Christ said that Adam was corrupt before he sinned.

 

I already did. "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit."

 

Would you agree that there can be no temptation without the possibility of give into it?

 

In Matthew 7:15 and following Christ teaches us how to recognize false prophets. We can recognize them by their fruits. He illustrated this point using the example of a fig tree producing thisles, i.e. people actually teaching godliness will produce fruit, but people teaching deception and misrepresention will produce evil fruit. Adam is no where to be found. Yet those who advocate for Calvinism are undeterred for according to their standards of bible study, ripping verses out of context to support man-made doctrine is stardard.

And in the parallel passage, Luke 6:43 and following again we get the idea of what we say reflecting our heart condition, with out of a heart that treasures goodness come godly sayings and out of a heart that treasures evil comes evil. Again, Adam is no where to be found.

Yet this helter skelter approach to biblical doctrine is advocated by Calvinism's advocates. Go figure

 

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.


You have ripped a verse out of context. Jesus was talking about false prophets, not Adam.



Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Everything that God made was "very good". This includes Adam since God made him, correct?

Your view has scripture contradicting itself, proving that you are wrong.

 

Adam's sin came from a bad CHOICE, something we all have the ability to do.

 

[snipped - inflammatory]

 

Reply to Greektim,

Here again we see yet another gang attack on my character, saying I am gutless, rather than my position. The problem of granting the possibility that Calvinists could actually believe their view is biblical is that they systemically misrepresent mine, or shift discussion to my character.

I showed that Matthew and Luke were talking about false prophets and not about Adam. For you to claim the quote was not ripped out of context is absurd.

Truth is never stupid.

Folks, no matter how many charges against me personally the Calvinists hurl, pay attention to the content of their posts. They have nothing!

 

This thread has gotten off topic. Please read the post regarding the rules of this board. Thank you.