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The Little Pagan Drummer Boy
- Thread starter Aaron
- Start date
1. No, our best is not good enough; as our offerings of worship are accepted based on our being "in Christ" with whom the father is "well pleased." However, we should play our best.
2. God gave human beings minds to invent machines and musical instruments; and so, based on their being expressions of (a) our image-bearing creativity, (b) our fulfilling of the cultural mandate to subdue and have dominion over the earth by using its materials in useful ways, and (c) our acceptance with God based on the finished work of the cross...I would say Yes, Christ would smile upon our "machines" as we make attempts to show our reverence and devotion to him...even if to God, it is sort of like a small child playing chopsticks and the Parents being pleased with the effort more than the great masterpiece of art that the child believes it to be.
2. God gave human beings minds to invent machines and musical instruments; and so, based on their being expressions of (a) our image-bearing creativity, (b) our fulfilling of the cultural mandate to subdue and have dominion over the earth by using its materials in useful ways, and (c) our acceptance with God based on the finished work of the cross...I would say Yes, Christ would smile upon our "machines" as we make attempts to show our reverence and devotion to him...even if to God, it is sort of like a small child playing chopsticks and the Parents being pleased with the effort more than the great masterpiece of art that the child believes it to be.
"Sing a new song of praise to him;
play skillfully on the harp, and sing with joy." Psalm 33:3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
While the best of our best is never good enough (filthy rags), we are instructed to "play skillfully". We should never approach God with indifference, boredom, half-hearted attempts, or a lackadaisical attitude.
And that's not just music - it's any endeavor.
I think the principle behind Malachi 1:8 is still true about what we present to God. "And when you offer the blind as a sacrifice, is it not evil? And when you offer the lame and sick, is it not evil?" Of course we don't offer lambs anymore, but think about it in terms of what we do present to the LORD today.
And to carry it even further, what do we offer today? Our entire being. And you know what Romans 12:1 says about that. "I beseech you therefore, brethern, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God which is your reasonable service."
It isn't that God is impressed with what we have to offer. We don't have anything - individually or collectively - that God needs. But He is pleased with the obedience and the contriteness of the heart that should accompany the offering.
play skillfully on the harp, and sing with joy." Psalm 33:3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
While the best of our best is never good enough (filthy rags), we are instructed to "play skillfully". We should never approach God with indifference, boredom, half-hearted attempts, or a lackadaisical attitude.
And that's not just music - it's any endeavor.
I think the principle behind Malachi 1:8 is still true about what we present to God. "And when you offer the blind as a sacrifice, is it not evil? And when you offer the lame and sick, is it not evil?" Of course we don't offer lambs anymore, but think about it in terms of what we do present to the LORD today.
And to carry it even further, what do we offer today? Our entire being. And you know what Romans 12:1 says about that. "I beseech you therefore, brethern, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God which is your reasonable service."
It isn't that God is impressed with what we have to offer. We don't have anything - individually or collectively - that God needs. But He is pleased with the obedience and the contriteness of the heart that should accompany the offering.
It's not as Christ is a kind of filter for our acts. None of our acts are acceptable. He is our substitute. To be in Christ means that what He has done, we have done. He satisfied the righteous requirements of the law and it's justice.
The sacrifices of God are a broken heart and contrite spirit. They are sacrifices of righteousness.
I think if God cared one whit about our machines in worship, then we would have some record of Jesus playing one.
This isn't to say that instruments can't be used, but it is to put them in their proper perspective. They're for men, not God.
1. I think it is going to far to say God doesn't "Care" about our "machines." It seems from Jesus speaking about sparrows and lilies, and counting the hairs on our heads, that God "cares" about all of our lives. If God was against the "machines," He would not have had so many of them used and referred to in the Old Testament.
2. There are many things we can legitimately use in worship that Jesus is not recorded as using. (Electric lights, pews, hymnals).
3. If instruments are ONLY for men, not God; would not the same be said for the preaching?
4. Would you say that instrumental music cannot glorify God?
5. I wonder why you keep calling musical instruments "machines"?
1. So why was the little drummer boy "pagan"?
2. I really don't believe the author of the song was intending to indicate that the Christ child was actually smiling at an object; the end of the preceeding line was "then he smiled at me, ba rum-pa-bum-bum," and the song just doesn't work well without one more line. . .and "drum" just happens to rhyme.
3. Seriously? This one line causes you heartburn?
2. I really don't believe the author of the song was intending to indicate that the Christ child was actually smiling at an object; the end of the preceeding line was "then he smiled at me, ba rum-pa-bum-bum," and the song just doesn't work well without one more line. . .and "drum" just happens to rhyme.
3. Seriously? This one line causes you heartburn?
As Christmas ditties go, its far better than Grandma got Run Over by a Reindeer or Dominick the Donkey .....:laugh:
Psalm 69:30–33 (ESV)
I will praise the name of God with a song; I will magnify him with thanksgiving.
This will please the Lord more than an ox or a bull with horns and hoofs.
When the humble see it they will be glad; you who seek God, let your hearts revive.
For the Lord hears the needy and does not despise his own people who are prisoners.
They're not machines? They're mechanical devices, then. Or, as Paul said, "things without life, giving sound."
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Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp!
Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe!
Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals!
Let everything that has breath praise the LORD! Praise the LORD!
Psalm 150:3–6 (ESV)
Praise him with "machines"!
Rob
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
I thought this topic seemed familiar, so I did a quick search, and found that you (Aaron) started a thread with the same title back in 2006: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=35702&highlight=drummer
Yes, if it is offered in spirit and in truth.
I know it is theologically fashionable to say that anything we offer to God is not good enough, but that ignores the true heart of God and makes Him a tyrant.
What would you think of a father who ruthlessly critiqued his infant child's gift of a crude drawing, an expression of love? A father of ANY redeeming moral sense would understand and appreciate the intent of the child and accept its full worth and value. Why do we somehow believe God is petty and unreasonable?
The scripture clearly teaches that God SEEKS persons to worship Him in spirit and truth (John 4:23-24) and that from the lips of children and infants He has ordained praise (Psalm 8:2 and reaffirmed and applied by Jesus in Matthew 21:16).
Yes, the gifts we bring can be good enough, not because of the gifts themselves, but because of our attitude toward God, our position in Christ, and the graciousness of our Heavenly Father.
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Maybe I should rephrase the question. Is anything we offer uncorrupt? Does God accept corrupt gifts?
Depends upon what you mean by "corrupt."
If, in the context of this question, "corrupt" means any old thing, thoughtlessly or cynically offered, then no, God does not accept gifts like that.
However, God certainly accepts imperfect, incomplete, incorrect gifts rightly given, gifts given with the best motives we can offer (although still mixed) according to the level of our spiritual maturity, gifts given with the best of our ability and resources (even if they are woefully lacking), and gifts given in humility and submission.
Since all of us exist in a world of corruption and, if we have been properly discipled, are slowing growing in grace and become reformed into persons less corrupted than before, we have no choice but to offers corrupted gifts.
If we are commanded to offer our corrupted bodies as living sacrifices (see Romans 12), that are declared to be "holy" and "acceptable" to God, then I feel confident in saying yes.