The Little Pagan Drummer Boy

[webdog]

Acceptance based on the works of his hands.

Hardly, but not every song that mentions Christ is Christian.

Besides this being a fictional song...its about a LITTLE CHILD for crying out loud. The things people troll about...

 

[Gina B]

Ahh, the traditional little pagan drummer boy thread, gifted to the BB by Aaron every year, accompanied by ensuing arguments.
Wouldn't be the holidays around here without it! :tongue3:

 

[Don]

Acceptance based on the works of his hands.
....
Maybe I should rephrase the question. Is anything we offer uncorrupt? Does God accept corrupt gifts?

Baptist Believer offered this:

If we are commanded to offer our corrupted bodies as living sacrifices (see Romans 12), that are declared to be "holy" and "acceptable" to God, then I feel confident in saying yes.

I also submit to you that scripture says that an old woman put her last two mites in the coffer, and Jesus commended her for doing so. Did He accept her gift based on her own hands putting money in the till, or did He commend her heart for giving whatever she could?

Maybe you should consider the spirit of the song, not the letter.

 

[Gina B]

...and I probably use the same verses each year... What a sucker i am!

The song is one of my favorites.

When I retire I plan on being a part-time Rum-pum-pum-pummer

Rob

BB Deacon and the Sound Machine. Haaaaaa Please name yourself that after you retire! Your first song can be "The Little Pagan Drummer Boy."

 

[Winman]

How is the little drummer boy a pagan? He believed Jesus was the Christ, just as the wise men who gave their gifts.

I think some have a view that God is this huge tyrant in the sky who hates his own creation. This is not so. He loved us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[convicted1]

I see so much of myself when I think of that little drummer boy. When I stood before the King, I was poor and had nothing that was fit to give the King. I didn't even have a song to sing. But you know what, when He saved my soul, He smiled at me!!! Though I had nothing to give, He give me everything He had!!:jesus::thumbs::thumbs::godisgood:

 

[Aaron]

As long as any leaves room for goodness in man or his offspring, he doesn't understand himself. As long as any believes God to accept any thing other than goodness and perfection, he doesn't understand God.

Not understanding one's self or one's God, how can he understand the Gospel?

 

[Aaron]

I see so much of myself when I think of that little drummer boy. When I stood before the King, I was poor and had nothing that was fit to give the King. I didn't even have a song to sing. But you know what, when He saved my soul, He smiled at me!!! Though I had nothing to give, He give me everything He had!!:jesus::thumbs::thumbs::godisgood:

The little pagan drummer boy brought something.

 

[12strings]

I wonder why Aaron is not responding to the many posts of scriptures where people are either commended for bringing something to God, or commanded to do so?

 

[Baptist Believer]

...As long as any believes God to accept any thing other than goodness and perfection, he doesn't understand God.

My brother, this statement grieves me for your sake.

I fear you do not understand or experience God's grace in your life.

Christ beckons to you to come to him with everything you have been, everything you are, and every hope and fear of what you might be, and enter into His life.

HE has taken care of everything in your life that is not goodness and perfection upon the cross already. Your responsibility is to take His yoke upon yourself and learn from him and let him transform your life into an expression of the goodness and character of God through His grace.

 

[David Lamb]

You bring this up every year for at least 5 years?

Does anyone ever agree with you?

I agree with Aaron to this extent: There are plenty of songs/carols/hymns sung at this time of year which are not biblical; The Little Drummer Boy is by no means unique in this.

Here are just some that I know. As you will see, they are not all modern:

Adam lay ybounden
Bounden in a bond;
Four thousand winter,
Thought he not too long.
And all was for an apple
An apple that he took.
As clerkes finden,
Written in their book.

Ne had the apple taken been
The apple taken been,
Ne had never our ladie,
Abeen heav'ne queen.
Blessed be the time
That apple taken was,
Therefore we moun singen.
Deo gracias!
​

Adam, eating an apple, and "Our Ladie" becoming "Queen of Heaven" because of it?

Then there is The First Nowell, which gives the idea that the shepherds were led by the same star as the magi. Verse 2 begins:

They looked up and saw a star
Shining in the East beyond them far
​

Then verse 3 starts:

And by the light of that same star
Three Wise men came from country far
​

Here's The Carol of the Birds, which I remember singing way back in the 1950s at primary school:

From out of the wood did a cuckoo fly, "Cuckoo."
He came to the manger with joyful cry. "Cuckoo."
He hopped, he curtsied, 'round he flew
And loud his jubilation grew.
"Cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo"


A pigeon flew over to Galilee. "Vrercroo."
He strutted and cooed and was filled with glee. "Vrercroo."
And showed with jeweled wings unfurled
His joy that Christ was in the world.
"Vrercroo, vrercroo, vrercroo."

A dove settled down upon Nazareth. "Tsucroo."
And tenderly chanted with all his breath. "Tsucroo"
"Oh You," he cooed, "so good and true,
My beauty do I give to you.
Tsucroo, tsucroo, tscroo."
​

Or how about Every Star Shall Sing a Carol?

Every star shall sing a carol
Every creature high and low,
Come and praise the King of Heaven
By whatever name you know

God above, man below
Holy is the name I know

When the king of all creation
Had a cradle on the Earth,
Holy was the human body
And the day that gave him birth

Who can tell how many crosses,
Still to come or long ago,
Crucify the king of heaven ?
Holy is the name I know

Who can tell what other cradle
High above the Milky Way
Still may rock the king of heaven
On another Christmas Day ?

Every creature he will gather,
All shall know him for their own
I will praise the son of Mary,
Brother of my blood and bone

Every star and every planet,
Every creature high or low,
Sing the everlasting carol:
Holy is the name I know.
​

....and so the list goes on. Go to a site giving Christmas carol words, like this one. OK, don't count the Christmas songs that don't even pretend to be Christian, like Jingle Bell Rock and Let it snow. Then, from those that rermain, see which ones are biblical.

​

 

[InTheLight]

I played my best for Him . . .
Then He smiled at me . . .
Me and my drum.

Is our best really good enough, and would Christ smile upon our machines?

Have you tried Hooked on Phonics? It teaches reading comprehension and pronunciation in an easy to understand methodology.

Allow me to assist. Jesus was smiling at the song the boy was playing, pleased that he was trying his best to play skillfully. He was not putting his smile on a machine and he was not commenting on the boy's attempt at good works for salvation. Sheesh!

You are a bitter, bitter man.

 

[dcorbett]

1. So why was the little drummer boy "pagan"?

2. I really don't believe the author of the song was intending to indicate that the Christ child was actually smiling at an object; the end of the preceeding line was "then he smiled at me, ba rum-pa-bum-bum," and the song just doesn't work well without one more line. . .and "drum" just happens to rhyme.

3. Seriously? This one line causes you heartburn?

I agree.....with you! There is nothing wrong with the song - I have loved
it for years.

 

[Aaron]

Have you tried Hooked on Phonics? It teaches reading comprehension and pronunciation in an easy to understand methodology.

I learned sight reading.

Allow me to assist. Jesus was smiling at the song the boy was playing, pleased that he was trying his best to play skillfully.

So, obviously, this was a miraculous event, as the newborn was officiating in His role as King, and not, as a natural newborn, simply smiling at amusing sounds.

King of what?

 

[Alcott]

Maybe the Jews of Malachi's time should have ignored the command he wrote to bring in the tithes and offerings. They used their hands to raise livestock and cultivate the crops that involved.

 

[David Lamb]

Cows and other animals "recognising" the Lord Jesus? The Saviour not crying? ("No crying He makes")? Kings visiting Him in a stable? Jesus being an apple tree? Joseph being an old man? (see The Cherry tree Carol ) Even a cat and a mouse discussing spiritual matters by the manger!

My question is this: Why is there any need to embellish the truths about the Incarnation of the Saviour with fictitious animals, trees, and the rest? As far as I know, we don't do the same sort of thing with our Lord's death, resurrection, or ascension, so why with His birth?

As far as The Drummer Boy is concerned, he's a fictional character, so to me, the question of whether he was pagan or Christian easily takes second place to the question of why some people seem to find it quite OK to sing about a fictional character in the context of Christian worship.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Cows and other animals "recognising" the Lord Jesus? The Saviour not crying? ("No crying He makes")? Kings visiting Him in a stable? Jesus being an apple tree? Joseph being an old man? (see The Cherry tree Carol ) Even a cat and a mouse discussing spiritual matters by the manger!

My question is this: Why is there any need to embellish the truths about the Incarnation of the Saviour with fictitious animals, trees, and the rest? As far as I know, we don't do the same sort of thing with our Lord's death, resurrection, or ascension, so why with His birth?

As far as The Drummer Boy is concerned, he's a fictional character, so to me, the question of whether he was pagan or Christian easily takes second place to the question of why some people seem to find it quite OK to sing about a fictional character in the context of Christian worship.

Spot On :love2: .... Mrs Claus & I fully agree!

 

[Aaron]

As far as The Drummer Boy is concerned, he's a fictional character. . .

....:thumbs: and so is the infant in this song, as in any apocryphal account of Jesus' childhood.

Musically, it's a beautiful song, and I have the Harry Simeone album. My grandparents had an original release, my parents have a copy released in the '60's, and I have a CD release. I listen to it several times each season. That album is one of the best Christmas albums ever produced. And though the music was Katherine Davis' primary concern, naturally her notions of Christ's person and His mission come out in the little story she wrote for it. And, naturally, and quite involuntarily, we pick up on it, and we either agree or we don't.

Fundamentally, Davis' notions were flawed, but notice the reactions to my criticism. Folks were thinking I was criticizing the Gospel. The beautiful music, the setting of the story, the season in which it is popular, and sympathy for the poor set the stage for wholesale an unthinking acceptance of an apocryphal account as true.

Musically, it's beautiful. It sounds like Christmas. But doctrinally, it belongs on the shelf with the Infancy Gospels.

Just sayin'.

 

[Baptist Believer]

....:thumbs: and so is the infant in this song, as in any apocryphal account of Jesus' childhood.

Well the whole song is fiction… I thought that was a given.

Musically, it's a beautiful song, and I have the Harry Simeone album. My grandparents had an original release, my parents have a copy released in the '60's, and I have a CD release. I listen to it several times each season. That album is one of the best Christmas albums ever produced.

For what it’s worth (probably not much), I’ve never really cared for the song or the story. That’s a personal preference and probably indicates a lack of musical taste more than anything else.

And though the music was Katherine Davis' primary concern, naturally her notions of Christ's person and His mission come out in the little story she wrote for it. And, naturally, and quite involuntarily, we pick up on it, and we either agree or we don't.

Fundamentally, Davis' notions were flawed…

Here’s the sum total of what she asserted:

1.) The infant was a newborn King. (I agree.)
2.) It’s a good thing to bring our finest gifts to lay before the infant King. (I agree.)
3.) It’s a good thing to honor the infant King. (I agree.)
4.) The infant smiled at him. (It seems within the character of any infant, especially the newborn Jesus. I have no issue with this.)

So what’s the doctrinal problem here?

…but notice the reactions to my criticism. Folks were thinking I was criticizing the Gospel. The beautiful music, the setting of the story, the season in which it is popular, and sympathy for the poor set the stage for wholesale an unthinking acceptance of an apocryphal account as true.

Um, no… At least not in my case.

And I don’t think that anyone is guilty of “an unthinking acceptance of an apocryphal account as true.”

I believe the only way people were ‘accepting’ the story of the song was within the context of the question you framed. You sir, were the one who provided the context for the original question and established the song’s story are the context in which the question was to be discussed. So if anyone is guilty of an “unthinking acceptance of an apocryphal account as true,” it is you.

I was reacting to the question you explicitly raised in the original post. Here’s the original post in its entirety:

I played my best for Him . . .
Then He smiled at me . . .
Me and my drum.

Is our best really good enough, and would Christ smile upon our machines?

After people responded to your actual question, you began your criticism of the doctrine of works-based salvation that you imagine is in the song, as well as expressing a tragic misapprehension of the character and grace of God in relation to humankind.

Then, without actually addressing most of the scriptural arguments addressing the content of your original post, you suddenly claim that everyone who disagreed with you was seduced by the song into “an unthinking acceptance of an apocryphal account as true.”

Musically, it's beautiful. It sounds like Christmas. But doctrinally, it belongs on the shelf with the Infancy Gospels.

Everyone who is familiar with the Gospels knows it is a work of fiction and can accept it on those terms.

As for the doctrinal problems, maybe you can elaborate on those issues since the lyrics are very sparse and make very few assertions, much less of a doctrinal nature.

- Do you deny that the newborn King in this story is intended to represent Jesus?
- Do you deny that Jesus was born a King?
- Do you deny that we should bring our finest gifts to honor Jesus, the King?
- Do you deny that we should honor Jesus, the King?
- Do you deny that Jesus might smile at an earnest gift, however “imperfect” it might be?

Just sayin'.

Seems to me you are just trying to provoke opportunities to “correct” others, even if you have to make things up and indulge in revisionism. But the whole thread is here for everyone to see.

 

[Aaron]

The beautiful music, the setting of the story, the season in which it is popular, and sympathy for the poor set the stage for wholesale an unthinking acceptance of an apocryphal account as true.

Oops. Let me rephrase this.

"...unthinking acceptance of the truth that the story is meant to convey."