The Little Pagan Drummer Boy

[Aaron]

So, when you offer your filthy rags (look that up in a Gr. lexicon), He thinks they smell sweet?

 

[Baptist Believer]

I think that's an overgeneralization of a personal opinion not validated either in this thread or in the hearts of those who like or dislike the song. "Little Drummer Boy" has absolutely nothing to do with salvation. It has to do with serving the Lord of Hosts.

No kidding.

For the record, I find the song very annoying and dislike it very much, but Aaron's reasons assume way too much and make massive unfounded generalizations/condemnations about others and the very song itself. There's no warrant for even suggesting that the drummer boy was "pagan."

Furthermore, he does not seem to understand grace in general, and most specifically, the grace we have in Christ. Sin has been dealt with in Christ. It is no longer about "measuring up" (if it ever was), but it is about aligning ourselves with God and experiencing His transformation of our lives.

 

[just-want-peace]

I bring this up every year, because one's feelings about the song is dictated by his soteriology.

For some, salvation simply means that God glosses over their corruptions and winks at their ignorance, and because their hearts are in the right place, He lowers His standards. For others, salvation means the need of a substitute in everything.

The former tend to like this song a lot.

I think somebody has been delving too deep into amateur psychology.
Better get your feet back on solid ground!

 

[Aaron]

There's no warrant for even suggesting that the drummer boy was "pagan."

It's not so much about the boy as the premise of the song.

Furthermore, he does not seem to understand grace in general, and most specifically, the grace we have in Christ. Sin has been dealt with in Christ. It is no longer about "measuring up" (if it ever was), but it is about aligning ourselves with God and experiencing His transformation of our lives.

More than that, it's about our union with Christ. All our unrighteousness becomes His, and all His righteousness becomes ours.

Christ, and He alone is worthy. We are ALL unrighteousness, He is all righteousness.

I do understand grace, and it is not described in this song.

 

[Baptist Believer]

It's not so much about the boy as the premise of the song.

The premise you suppose is not even suggested by the song.

Boy = pagan? No justification for that view.
"He smiled at me" = drummer boy being made right with God. No justification for that view.

More than that, it's about our union with Christ. All our unrighteousness becomes His, and all His righteousness becomes ours.

Unrighteousness was dealt with on the cross and it is no longer an issue for those in Christ. We are dead to it in Christ.

Christ, and He alone is worthy. We are ALL unrighteousness, He is all righteousness.

So which is it? Are you in union with Christ or not? If you are in union with Christ, you need to set aside your obsession with unrighteousness and embrace the grace of God so that you may experience practical righteousness worked out in your mind and body. Obsession over unrighteousness leaves you stuck in sin and unable to experience and extend grace.


Looking back over this ludicrous thread, I noticed I already answered your assertions sufficiently several years ago. You may click on the links below for a refresher:

First major response

Second major response

Third major response

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

So, when you offer your filthy rags (look that up in a Gr. lexicon), He thinks they smell sweet?

And this is relevant to what, exactly??

By the way, the word used in Isaiah 64:6 -- meaning it will do no good to look it up in a Greek lexicon -- does not mean "menstrual rags" as many, many well-intentioned individuals have claimed over the years. It is the Hebrew beged -- Strong's # 899 -- and means, simply, any type of clothing. It would be far more appropriate to reference it to Paul's statement about putting off the old man -- stained with sin -- and putting on Christ.

No kidding.

For the record, I find the song very annoying and dislike it very much, but Aaron's reasons assume way too much and make massive unfounded generalizations/condemnations about others and the very song itself. There's no warrant for even suggesting that the drummer boy was "pagan."

Furthermore, he does not seem to understand grace in general, and most specifically, the grace we have in Christ. Sin has been dealt with in Christ. It is no longer about "measuring up" (if it ever was), but it is about aligning ourselves with God and experiencing His transformation of our lives.

:thumbsup:

Good post, BB.

 

[Aaron]

Fortunately Christ accepts (as you put it in post #18) "corrupt gifts." The gifts we bring can be good enough, not because of the gifts themselves, but because of our attitude toward God, our position in Christ, and the graciousness of our Heavenly Father.

Yes, yes. You keep asserting this error. Time to go to the Scriptures now and see what the acceptable offerings are.

You first.

 

[Aaron]

And this is relevant to what, exactly??

Any offering you bring. try to keep up.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Yes, yes. You keep asserting this error. Time to go to the Scriptures now and see what the acceptable offerings are.

You first.

Psalm 51:15-17

O Lord, open my lips,

and my mouth will declare your praise.
For you have no delight in sacrifice;

if I were to give a burnt offering, you would not be pleased.
The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit;

a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

Romans 12:1

Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Any offering you bring. try to keep up.

I am keeping up, case you hadn't noticed. I think my post hashed your premise, but that's just my opinion.

 

[just-want-peace]

This thread is one of the most ridiculous I've followed.

It's kinda like in the 50s there was a TV program called "HOWDY DOODY" - a kids show. I hated the show, but they did so much crazy and unusual things that I watched off/on simply to see what was going to happen, not because of any interest in the show.

This fits my following this thread - wondering what rabbit trail is going to be legitimized to back up an unbackable claim.

If you don't like the tune, simple - don't listen!! Not that hard to grasp.

It seems that there are very few that agree to the subtle "rejection of pure doctrine" that some claim.

 

[Gina B]

jwp, never really paid much attention to it or sought it out to listen to it, but now that it's been brought to my attention every year, maybe this will be the year I choose to go find it and play it just for fun. :laugh:
Just looked up the lyrics, it even has an ox and lamb keeping time. I do so love when songs and stories give human characteristics to critters! How cute.

Wonder what evil intentions shall I read into animals keeping time? Ooooh, they are keeping time with a DRUM, the most evil of instruments in Baptistdom. This could get theologically exciting.

Or it could just be a song.

Looking into the body of works by the original composer, she did some beautiful stuff that I wasn't aware were her original compositions. Pretty neat! There's your rabbit trail. Go look her up. (yes, not only drums, but composed by a WOMAN!)

 

[Aaron]

Psalm 51:15-17

O Lord, open my lips,

and my mouth will declare your praise.
For you have no delight in sacrifice;

if I were to give a burnt offering, you would not be pleased.
The sacrifice acceptable to God is a broken spirit;

a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

Excellent.

if I were to give a burnt offering, you would not be pleased

 

[Baptist Believer]

if I were to give a burnt offering, you would not be pleased

You need to keep reading.

God DOES accept a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart as a sacrifice/offering.

The point here is that ritual sacrifice (following the letter of the law) does not please God, but the attitude in which the offering is given.

Thus even in your twisted interpretation of the song where the boy is making an offering to Jesus, the "drummer boy" can use his "machine" to provide a gift to the baby Jesus and it is perfectly acceptable.

Let's imagine a scene where Jesus is dining with a religious person (let's call him Simon) and a woman with a very bad reputation suddenly comes into the home, falls at the feet of Jesus and cries uncontrollably, wetting the feet of Jesus with her tears and wiping them dry with her hair. She also indulged herself by kissing the feet of Jesus! That would be HIGHLY inappropriate in that culture. (Just imagine where those tears, lips and hair have been!) Then she takes a jar of extremely expensive perfume and pours it over the feet of Jesus, filling the house with the fragrance of the scent that was purchased by providing sexual services to the men of the village, country-side and possibly beyond. There is no provision in the Law of Moses to do what she did. So what might Jesus do? For a hint, you may want to examine Luke 7:36-50.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

This thread was my first foray into the Music Ministry realm.

Likely will be my last, too.

:BangHead:

 

[Baptist Believer]

This thread was my first foray into the Music Ministry realm.

Likely will be my last, too.

Don't be discouraged. That's just the way Aaron is. He pulls this kind of thing on a regular basis.

You have posted well-reasoned, biblical posts that any unbiased person would find compelling. Unfortunately, Aaron is not known for changing his mind or accepting anything that does not already conform to his current opinions.

 

[Aaron]

You need to keep reading.

I know the Psalm well. Something had to happen before a bullock (or the thing it signified) could be offered on the altar. What was it?

P.S. It wasn't an attitude.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I know the Psalm well. Something had to happen before a bullock (or the thing it signified) could be offered on the altar. What was it?

Are you referring to repentance*?

* A realignment of one's life in accordance with the Kingdom of God.

 

[Aaron]

One had to be whole.

 

[Aaron]

....:thumbs: and so is the infant in this song, as in any apocryphal account of Jesus' childhood.

Musically, it's a beautiful song, and I have the Harry Simeone album. My grandparents had an original release, my parents have a copy released in the '60's, and I have a CD release. I listen to it several times each season. That album is one of the best Christmas albums ever produced. And though the music was Katherine Davis' primary concern, naturally her notions of Christ's person and His mission come out in the little story she wrote for it. And, naturally, and quite involuntarily, we pick up on it, and we either agree or we don't.

Fundamentally, Davis' notions were flawed, but notice the reactions to my criticism. Folks were thinking I was criticizing the Gospel. The beautiful music, the setting of the story, the season in which it is popular, and sympathy for the poor set the stage for wholesale an unthinking acceptance of an apocryphal account as true.

Musically, it's beautiful. It sounds like Christmas. But doctrinally, it belongs on the shelf with the Infancy Gospels.

Just sayin'.

Just sayin'.