That the infant King [Jesus] might be pleased with the sincere and heartfelt offering of music from someone who is there to worship Him?
What blasphemy!
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The Little Pagan Drummer Boy
- Thread starter Aaron
- Start date
What blasphemy!
The song is about a poor boy beckoned by the Magi to see the newborn King. (A newborn king is an element of irony. Everyone knows he was invited to see THE King.)He doesn't have a gift, so he asks the baby if he may play on his drum. Receiving Mary's approval, he begins to play and then the magic happens. Miraculously, the animals, indifferent to the gifts of the Magi, are endowed with the intelligence to "keep time" with his playing. He played his best, and when he is through, Christ responded with a smile, showing His approval and acceptance, and honoring the poor boy's playing above the gold, frankincense and myrrh.
Moral of the story?
That's the question. Is the gift you offer uncorrupt?
Ah, "the magic."
You may be shocked to know that animals can keep time with music:
A dog keeping time to music.
A cockatoo keeping time to music.
That the baby Jesus liked the song?
It depends upon what you mean by "uncorrupt." If you mean a gift that is completely unstained by my human limitations and the limits of my progress in Christ, then no. Until the Last Day, when we will be completed in Christ, we have no choice but to offers corrupted gifts if we are going to offer anything at all.
Fortunately Christ accepts (as you put it in post #18) "corrupt gifts." The gifts we bring can be good enough, not because of the gifts themselves, but because of our attitude toward God, our position in Christ, and the graciousness of our Heavenly Father.
The scripture clearly teaches that God SEEKS persons to worship Him in spirit and truth (John 4:23-24) and that from the lips of children and infants He has ordained praise (Psalm 8:2 and reaffirmed and applied by Jesus in Matthew 21:16). And we are also commanded to offer our corrupted bodies as living sacrifices (see Romans 12), and they are declared to be "holy" and "acceptable" to God.
God accepts imperfect, incomplete, incorrect gifts rightly given, gifts given with the best motives we can offer (although still mixed) according to the level of our spiritual maturity, gifts given with the best of our ability and resources (even if they are woefully lacking), and gifts given in humility and submission.
Why do you have so much trouble accepting the grace of God in this?
See what I mean? There is no rationality in the defense of this little song. People actually think that Jesus would have done this.
The fact of the matter is, that nothing we have to offer is acceptable, and alluding to the law of the offerings is missing the point. A major lesson of the offerings is that one cannot approach God. He needs a substitute.
And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering;* and it shall be accepted for him [in his place] to make atonement for him.
Don't let the word "atonement" throw you. Burnt offerings were not offered for sin. They were, as you put it, a "sincere and heartfelt" offering of one's life. Is there a better gift to God than the complete dedication of one's life to Christ?
You think worship is acceptable if "sincere and heartfelt"? No, it must be in truth, and in spirit.
The fact of the matter is, that nothing we have to offer is acceptable, and alluding to the law of the offerings is missing the point. A major lesson of the offerings is that one cannot approach God. He needs a substitute.
And he shall put his hand upon the head of the burnt offering;* and it shall be accepted for him [in his place] to make atonement for him.
Don't let the word "atonement" throw you. Burnt offerings were not offered for sin. They were, as you put it, a "sincere and heartfelt" offering of one's life. Is there a better gift to God than the complete dedication of one's life to Christ?
You think worship is acceptable if "sincere and heartfelt"? No, it must be in truth, and in spirit.
I don't accept your statement, because it isn't true.
I see you are cherry-picking all of my responses in order to rip things out of context so you can "correct" me. Either that, or you have a major reading comprehension problem:
In a follow-up post you asserted:
Where did you get the ludicrous idea that I don't believe in the essential nature of the work of Christ in my life? I said in the post you are allegedly responding to:
Misrepresenting others does not honor Christ.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention since I have said this TWICE already in this thread, including the post you were directly responding to:
In a follow-up post you asserted:
Where did you get the ludicrous idea that I don't believe in the essential nature of the work of Christ in my life? I said in the post you are allegedly responding to:
Misrepresenting others does not honor Christ.
Simply put, The Little Drummer Boy is about how a poor boy gained the approbation of God. You and others are saying God will accept and approve of our imperfect offerings IF we offer with the right motives, because God is gracious. But I don't think you realize the true scope and effect of sin.
God doesn't look at the outward or natural appearances of things. He sees things as they really are. When He describes us as unclean, and our best acts of devotion as "filthy rags," He doesn't have the imperfect, yet endearing, gifts created for us by our children in view. He is describing something repulsive and vile.
If you opened a present from your child on Christmas day, and found that you were presented with a box of rags stained and stinking with the menstrous issues of women, would you accept them? Not even if you could stifle the gag reflex. "But," the child cries, "that's all I have!" Neither your love, nor the child's pitiful state could render the gift acceptable, and if you DID accept it, it wouldn't be an act of grace, but of perversion. There's a right way to deal with such a gift, and that is to burn it or haul it to the landfill where worms are better served by the gift than you are.
Pagans think their acts of devotion, whether humble or spectacular, can gain the approbation of God. The popularity of The Little Drummer Boy testifies to its appeal to that notion. Unfortunately, many Christians think that way too.
God doesn't look at the outward or natural appearances of things. He sees things as they really are. When He describes us as unclean, and our best acts of devotion as "filthy rags," He doesn't have the imperfect, yet endearing, gifts created for us by our children in view. He is describing something repulsive and vile.
If you opened a present from your child on Christmas day, and found that you were presented with a box of rags stained and stinking with the menstrous issues of women, would you accept them? Not even if you could stifle the gag reflex. "But," the child cries, "that's all I have!" Neither your love, nor the child's pitiful state could render the gift acceptable, and if you DID accept it, it wouldn't be an act of grace, but of perversion. There's a right way to deal with such a gift, and that is to burn it or haul it to the landfill where worms are better served by the gift than you are.
Pagans think their acts of devotion, whether humble or spectacular, can gain the approbation of God. The popularity of The Little Drummer Boy testifies to its appeal to that notion. Unfortunately, many Christians think that way too.
Actually, the boy gained a smile from the newborn King. Your belief that he gained the approbation of God goes well beyond the song lyrics.
For the sake of your argument, you are conveniently leaving out the fact that I have been talking about those who are in Christ.
Your argument rests on assumptions you have made that are well beyond the song lyrics. For instance, the presupposition that the drummer boy is pagan. That is completely unsupported by the lyrics.
The wise men may well have been descendants of those who had been taken into Babylonian captivity and had not returned to Palestine. A drummer boy who accompanied them could also be a believer in the God of Israel. The song doesn't say, so we can't judge or condemn a song lyric using our imagination to assume the worst possible scenario/theology.
evenifigoalone
Well-Known Member
A lot of Christmas carols aren't exactly accurate for one reason or another. It's good to recognize that, but otherwise I don't really care. They're still beautiful.
saturneptune
New Member
Our best is not good enough. Anything that is good enough for Him is from Him in the first place.
I mentioned this in another thread, but where do all these off these off the wall traditions that have nothing to do with the birth of Christ come from? One small example is this song, the Little Drummer Boy. So, here was have, at the scene of the birth at the manager, a thirteen year old boy or so, pounding on a snare drum while a goat and a sheep keep time. In the middle of all this, Jesus smiles at the drummer.
Chestnuts on an open fire are highly overrated, silver bells cost $30 an ounce, the ghost of Christmas past is a glutton, the ghost of Christmas present looks like a cheap tour guide, and the ghost of Christmas future has a bad case of anorexia.
:thumbs::thumbs:
Nope. He wants more than the best from little children.
Poor children will never have enough to offer.
We should be appalled that the song says he smiled at a poor child, for poor children have nothing, let alone something good enough to offer anyone, let alone a KING, and should not bother to even try.
Merry Christmas. To the grown ups. Provided they aren't poor and have something better to offer than their best. Hopefully they have studied enough to know best.
Instead of this thread every year Aaron, perhaps you should just tell everyone straight out what to do.
You could save souls.
And stop those pesky kids from singing all these joyful songs this time of year and annoying everyone with their happiness and thoughts that they too have something that can make anyone happy. Lots of kids I know are poor and this is about all they can do for others this time of year. They really need put in their place.
Perhaps you could be like Martin and nail letters to their door with a long description of your version of The Little Pagan Drummer Boy. You could a modern day hero.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Who am I trying to please? That's the question I need to ask here. As God said through the prophet ...
Isaiah 64, NASB
6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
I struggle with self-imposed guilt a lot. I'm never good enough, brilliant enough, educated enough, strong enough (either physically or spiritually). I have a lot of balls in the air that I juggle constantly. I haven't told anyone on the board this, but I'm going back to school -- Mizzou, of course -- for a doctorate. I can't afford it, even on the basis of my income from my successful practice. So I have returned to something on a small scale that I did years ago, after the military. I'm building houses again, the profits going to our "slowing down" account (we don't believe the Bible talks about retirement) and to my doctoral degree fund. It's scary, in a way, because that profession triggered my disordered gambling, which was my downfall 20 years ago, but which also led me to Christ.
So I'm exceptionally busy. If I don’t always meet with a subcontractor at a house, keep an appointment with a counseling client without making proper contact and other arrangements, get my personal prayer and study time in, make home repairs in a timely fashion, and attend to my wife and her spiritual and emotional needs adequately, my guilt alert starts flashing bright red before my eyes.
I feel like a failure, I know my best isn’t good enough, when a ball drops to the ground and something doesn’t get done. As if that’s not bad enough, I automatically project my self-imposed guilt onto what I think others think about me. Just because I feel like a failure doesn’t mean that my wife greets me at the door looking at me like I’m a failure. But I think she does, even when she doesn't. And, for the record, she never does.
That's when I have to stop, think, and remind myself: I’m juggling all my balls in the air for the glory of God, not for myself or for the praise of others. When one falls down, it’s not an excuse to feel like a failure, but it’s a time for me to bring Him glory in how I respond. I should have this verse tattooed on my forearm -- or at the very least, pasted to the dashboard of my truck.
1 Corinthians 10
31 Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
31 Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
Now, what is wrong with this thread, from what I've read, is that people seem to think the song preaches works -- it doesn't -- that the drummer boy's effort to play his "best" for the Christ child somehow reflects someone's teaching that we must do our best for Him to earn something. It doesn't.
But please get this, and get it firmly: That nonetheless is what we are to do. Our best isn't good enough, as the wise prophet Isaiah preached to Israel 2,800 years ago. But we should, must, have to give our best anyway. Why?
Romans 12
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
That's why. Because we don't want to be like the Old Testament Jewish nation.
Malachi 1
8 "But when you present the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? And when you present the lame and sick, is it not evil? Why not offer it to your governor? Would he be pleased with you? Or would he receive you kindly?" says the LORD of hosts.
8 "But when you present the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? And when you present the lame and sick, is it not evil? Why not offer it to your governor? Would he be pleased with you? Or would he receive you kindly?" says the LORD of hosts.
Just because our best isn't good enough is no reason not to offer it anyway. There's nothing wrong with the tenor of the song "Little Drummer Boy," and calling it "pagan" may cause us to miss the lesson therein. The drummer boy doesn't say he played his best for reward. He played his best because he was before the King of Kings.
So are we. Every day.
Last edited by a moderator:
I bring this up every year, because one's feelings about the song is dictated by his soteriology.
For some, salvation simply means that God glosses over their corruptions and winks at their ignorance, and because their hearts are in the right place, He lowers His standards. For others, salvation means the need of a substitute in everything.
The former tend to like this song a lot.
For some, salvation simply means that God glosses over their corruptions and winks at their ignorance, and because their hearts are in the right place, He lowers His standards. For others, salvation means the need of a substitute in everything.
The former tend to like this song a lot.
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
I think that's an overgeneralization of a personal opinion not validated either in this thread or in the hearts of those who like or dislike the song. "Little Drummer Boy" has absolutely nothing to do with salvation. It has to do with serving the Lord of Hosts.