Questions for Calvinists

[Jerry Shugart]

My friend. We must be careful making definitive statements such as these. I believe in regeneration before repentance, but I will not be definitive on the matter. You have a presupposition that it is the opposite. Your presupposition does not make what you say is true, only bias to your point of view. You not willing to accept the answers laid before you does not support that Calvinists have no answers.

My friend, you are sadly mistaken. If what I said is in error then why did you not demonstrate what I said is in error?

 

[preacher4truth]

Right now, I am not sure you can see much of any truth.

Quite the contrary. By handling truth consistently your errors become glaringly obvious. Others have pointed out your false teachings as well. You need to listen to them, they are here to help you.

You give a blind man's opinion. In addition, if Pelagius believed in some truths, then he believes God's Truth. It is the words of Jesus, not Pelgius’<sic>.

Believing "some truths" doesn't save as you imply that it does. This is more false teaching on your part. Let's apply your false teachings to Calvinists; they believe "some truth" so they're saved? We both know you don't believe this. But that is OK as well, your behavior here in calling me blind is simply you employing the same deeds as diablos.

Assent means to acknowledge something, agree to something, or surrender to something.
You say that a person who mental<sic> surrenders to Jesus is different from true belief? LOL

Assent doesn't mean that so stop with your adding meanings to words.

Nice try. I never said "that a person who mental<sic>surrenders to Jesus is different from true belief" as you falsely state in attempt to add words to my mouth. This is your second attempt to change meanings.

But this is you misrepresenting again. I said mental assent doesn't save, and mental assent isn't "surrender" to Jesus. So no, mental assent and true belief are not both salvific. James teaches this.

Anyhow, even more false teaching on your part. One can agree something is true, but it doesn't save. Even agreeing that Jesus is true won't save, note Acts 16:17. Adding the word "surrender" is you twisting the true meaning of "assent" into something it isn't, so you can deceive yourself into thinking you're correct. See 2 Timothy 3:13 for further description of those who do these things as you are doing. James dealt with mental assent, and those who have this alone are as the demons, that is, they both remain unsaved, yet they both believe, but you say otherwise. No need to wonder who is correct.

I only repeated what my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ said:

Acts 5:32 "...the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

You call me a false teacher; however, you are really calling Jesus a false teacher. I only repeated Jesus' words.

Of course God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey Him, for obeying in salvation. That's the context.

These verses are wonderful but don't prove a thing about what your false teaching says. A lost person can obey Jesus teachings.

No?

Really?

This is what you're saying, but Matthew 7:21 says that Moriah isn't telling the truth here and that lost people can obey Him.

I have been telling you that faith comes from hearing, from learning, from being convinced, and persuaded. I gave you scriptures. You tell us that God causes us to believe by making us born again first. No scripture says that. You believe in things not in the Bible.

You haven't told me a thing, I've told you that. Faith comes from the Word of God, Romans 10:17, but you say it comes from different sources, and teach that a person earns it by what he does. That's false teaching.

Again.

I told you without God no one can keep the law, nor believe, as faith, being a gift, and enabling one to believe comes from Him and Him alone. Romans 10:17; 1 Peter 1:1-2; Php. 1:29. Yet, you teach otherwise. Your scriptural knowledge is below a rudimentary understanding. I'll hope this is why you are a false teacher.

I believe things that are not in the Bible? No son, I believe everything in the Bible. You? You don't believe things that are in the Bible as you skip around the passages that I gave you proving my doctrine is correct. You won't address these, but instead resort to slander.

By the way, you will give an account for stating that I've called Jesus a false teacher. I've done no such thing, but, God bless you anyway my friend.

Here it is again, the false teaching you said you do not do:

Preacher4truth: There is a vast diffence between mental assent and real belief. It says so in James. That you cannot discern, nor do you believe there is a difference between true belief and false, is, well, interesting to say the least.

There is<sic> more false teachings I can show you were<sic> you explain that we cannot believe unless God causes us to."

Everything I said there is truth.

Do you want me to proof read your sentences?

No. Spend time getting help deprogramming your Pelagian errors instead. Seek a pastor for help. I'm available if you PM me, I'll try to help you out of your errors. We will need to invest some time in helping you come to the knowledge of the truth that you cannot earn salvation, faith, heaven, grace. By you believing you can, you show you don't understand the grace of God in salvation. You apparently believe in a works based salvation, but no man will ever make it on works. I am here to help you understand the truth soteriologically.

What you say here is more of your judging that God says not to do. Oh yeah, but you Calvinist <sic> sin continuously.

More prattle and slander akin to diablos, and nothing like Christ.

 

[Moriah]

Assent doesn't mean that so stop with your adding meanings to words.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/assent

assent

To assent is to acknowledge something, agree to something or surrender to something. (verb)

Looks like your dictionary has proved you wrong, except you will most likely not admit error, to your regret. When someone has explained the truth to you, and you do not acknowledge it, that is when it gets to be dangerous grounds.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

With absolutely no testimony from Pelagius or writings by his own hand, and with nothing more than what one can find with the click of a mouse on an unknown website by unknown authors, Amy has establish the guilt without a doubt that Pelagius is a heretic and has confessed before the world via the Internet for all to see once again, by her own pen no less,.. Guilty as a heretic! With no consideration of the source of the charge of heresy, nor consideration of the beliefs of the oppressor Augustine, ruling from a position of power, with no study of church doctrine prior to Augustine, nor with any first-hand actual evidence of what Pelagius himself actually taught, Amy and preacher4 truth have, before the whole world and God no less, condemned Pelagius without doubt as a worthless corrupting heretic.

Pelagius, according to Amy and preacher4 truth, is to stand condemned as charged by them personally on this list. Guilty as charged by Amy and preacher4 truth, and will stand guilty as charged until, HP (whoever in the world he is and no matter what actual evidence could even be his disposal to prove the innocence of Pelagius,) can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt his innocence, again before the court of the whole world by way of the Internet.

One thing I know for certain is that neither of these two individuals have any idea as to the level of evidence it should take to find one guilty of such a charge. If Augustine desired to use his influence prestige and power to call him a heretic, let him. If every Catholic/Augustinian church council ever convened desired to call Pelagius a heretic, let them do it. If Augustine sees it to his grand overall advantage to burn the evidence written by the hand of Pelagius, let him do it. If Augustine desired to fine or intimidate anyone found in possession of a work by Pelagius, let him do it. They alone will answer for their own actions before a Holy and Just God.

One day the books will be open and everyman will stand and give an account for all deeds done in the flesh and every idle word spoken. There'll be an account for every judgment made and for every false charge. Pelagius will have his day in court and the deck will not be unfairly stacked against him. There will be a Perfect Just and Holy God presiding over that court one day, that will not be deciding the case based on the heathen philosophy of Augustine or any of his followers, friends, cohorts, nor those that feared for their life to stand up against the power Augustine wielded from his high and lofty position. There will be no Augustinian fires burning that day, destroying the evidence of what Pelagius himself taught, but rather the works themselves will be resurrected from the fires of Augustine that the truth may be once and for all brought to light and established for eternity. On that day nobody will face fines or even death for merely for having in their possession and actual book written by Pelagius. God's court that day will be based on justice and truth not power prestige or influence from heathen philosophy or the Catholic Church. It would be based on justice and truth.

Stand down and exercise some patients Amy and preacher4truth. One of these days I'm going to have some factual evidence on both Pelagius and Augustine that I won't mind sharing in front of the whole universe . We will all be there that day, every last one of us, and will stand before the judgment seat of Christ. We will all stand before God and give an account for every deed done in the flesh and for every idle word spoken against another, from the most powerful to the poorest pauper, all will give an account for their own deeds and idle words. One of these days Amy we all will know with absolute certainty who was the heretic. The evidence won't be from the often one-sided Internet sites nor will it be from hearsay. Augustine and his cohorts will not be the judge of Pelagius on that day. God will be the Judge of all. Consider that fact carefully as you spout the word 'heretic.'


God, hasten the day.

 

[preacher4truth]

http://www.yourdictionary.com/assent

assent

To assent is to acknowledge something, agree to something or surrender to something. (verb)

Looks like your dictionary has proved you wrong, except you will most likely not admit error, to your regret. When someone has explained the truth to you, and you do not acknowledge it, that is when it gets to be dangerous grounds.

Interesting how false teachers avoid all truth at all cost as you do, and stick to a dictionary misdefinition as reason to avoid the rest of truth.

Even if assent implied surrender, mental assention to facts still do not save, yet you say it does. That is false teaching and is the point you cannot understand.

 

[preacher4truth]

Pelagius, according to Amy and preacher4 truth, is to stand condemned as charged by them personally on this list. Guilty as charged by Amy and preacher4 truth, and will stand guilty as charged until, HP (whoever in the world he is and no matter what actual evidence could even be his disposal to prove the innocence of Pelagius,) can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt his innocence, again before the court of the whole world by way of the Internet.

Pelagius was condemned and heretic well before either Amy or myself even entered this world, and justifiably so.

Don't attack the messenger. He's condemned as charged long long ago.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Preacher, you will not give an account for the words spoken before you came into this world, but you will give an account for every idle word and deed you have committed in this present world, and so will I. In the manner we judge others, including Pelagius, so will we be judged,.... in the very same manner. Be reminded, Augustine will not be your attorney or judge on that day either. Be careful how 'you' spout the word 'heretic.'

Even preachers need to hear the truth on occasion, and this is certainly one of those occasions. :thumbs:

 

[Amy.G]

With absolutely no testimony from Pelagius or writings by his own hand, and with nothing more than what one can find with the click of a mouse on an unknown website by unknown authors, Amy has establish the guilt without a doubt that Pelagius is a heretic and has confessed before the world via the Internet for all to see once again, by her own pen no less,.. Guilty as a heretic! With no consideration of the source of the charge of heresy,....bla bla bla

HP, my information did not come from some "unknown" website. CARM is a very respected site run by competent people who do not set out to call people heretics.
Pelagius was deemed a heretic, period. Surely you can do your own research and come up with a better re-buttal than this.
You have yet to show that Pelagius was not a heretic. You can scream it all you want, but that means nothing. Present some facts if you're so sure he's innocent instead of proclaiming that God is going to judge me for my slander of a known heretic.

 

[Iconoclast]

You said: Dead men cannot believe anything...they need the Spirit to be able to believe.
Unbelievers do not have the Spirit....that is why they are....un-believers
Scripture says the natural man....Cannot.... receive the word...

My reply: Where in the scriptures does it say, “Dead men cannot believe anything”? NOWHERE in the scriptures does it say we cannot believe in Jesus after learning of him.

After learning of Him
is a description of the elect sheep who are taught of God...they are already saved, having the Spirit, they are already alive from the dead.
You keep using verses speaking of elect believers...and trying to say the natural man does these things.

You said: I just showed you clear scripture that says dead ,natural men cannot understand the word of God.....

My reply: No, you did not show me anything except that you added to God’s word. Nowhere does the scriptures say we cannot believe in Jesus after learning of him. The scriptures tell us that that is how we have faith, after hearing. You add and take away from God’s word.

Here...you did it again,,,, then you accuse me of adding or taking away...stay on point!

You said: Looks like this applies to you.you are not really asking questions to learn...but to resist. you have not made your case.

My reply: I am trying to show those from the reformed camp that they cannot give biblical answers to the questions.

You cannot understand the answers because of your dislike of the revealed truth.

You said: No...this is completely unbiblical.....God chose the elect in Christ before the world was...he did not choose a plan..he chose people,

My reply: What did God chose the people to do?

God chose sinners that he would save....He chose people that he would make willing to believe.

[You sad: lets see which view is biblically taught here;
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

My reply: This does not say at all that God gives us the Holy Spirit to cause us to love Him! Stay on topic. /QUOTE]

Well the topic was romans 8:29-30....Romans 8 deals with the Spirits work in the elect...so instead of dealing with these verses you cannot answer..you jump in to jn14..speaking about believers??? not exactly on topic.
.

What you teach is not the word of God.

Actually..it is...maybe you will come to understand it sometime:thumbs:

You said: this is speaking of people..not a plan
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

My reply: God foreknew the Jews, even though it may of seemed like all the Jews were hardened and cut off, they were not hardened and cut off forever. In addition, God knows all our hearts, even before we are born. Why does God search are hearts if all hearts are only evil anyway? Calvinists say that none of us has the capability to believe and that we are totally depraved, if that is so, then why does the bible say God searches? Here are many passages that tell us God searches. What is God searching for if all are totally depraved?

You people of the reformed group need to start answering my replies to your replies.

Your replies are not answering what we say at all.Like this;

You said: it does not say a plan was foreknown...it says for WHOM...that again is people 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

My reply: The plan was predestined, for those who would believe in His Son.

It does not say a plan was foreknown.
it is you adding your thought to the clear teaching of scripture;
it does not say;
for those who would believe in His Son.....God foreknew a plan..you have it wrong...dead wrong and backwards.

ou said: Except a man be Born from above...HE CANNOT enter......you say he can..before being born from above
My reply: He becomes born again after he believes the message, then when God accepts that person; God gives them His Holy Spirit. We receive the Holy Spirit when God accepts us

Your reply and false teaching is a gospel of works

He becomes born again after he believes the message, then when God accepts that person[/QUOTE]
Man does something...then god reacts to what man does Jesus said a man must be born again,or he cannot see....

you falsely teach man doessomething without the Spirit as if he does not need new birth..this is a wicked falsehood as written...maybe you did not intend to say this???

You said: you say it is no where taught.....it is all over the Bible...salvation is all of God. If any man have not the Spirit of God he is none of His.

My reply: What Calvinists teach is not in the Bible, NOWHERE.

It is everywhere to those who can see the truth.

You said: You cannot learn of Jesus unless drawn of the Father by the Spirit..this verse shows how it happens. Individuals are chosen of the God from the beginning...not a plan....
Moriah...I can show verses..but if you do not understand what you are reading...you do not have the verses.

My reply: Show one thing I have explained wrong. That is one of your problems, you do not even read and consider what I tell you. I only tell you what is in the scriptures.

as you can see..everything you posted was non responsive,and you do not deal with the scriptures....
.

 

[preacher4truth]

Preacher, you will not give an account for the words spoken before you came into this world, but you will give an account for every idle word and deed you have committed in this present world, and so will I. In the manner we judge others, including Pelagius, so will we be judged,.... in the very same manner. Be reminded, Augustine will not be your attorney or judge on that day either. Be careful how 'you' spout the word 'heretic.'

Even preachers need to hear the truth on occasion, and this is certainly one of those occasions. :thumbs:

Thanks. This clarifies what position you'll be in for defending the heretic Pelagius.

 

[Christos doulos]

My friend, you are sadly mistaken. If what I said is in error then why did you not demonstrate what I said is in error?

I didn't say, you said anything in error. I said, we must be careful in making definitive statements such as this.

Your quote:

especially about their false teaching that a person is regenerated before they believe.

 

[billwald]

AGREE! Dead men can't do anything. Then live Jews, Hindus, American Indian People who love God and try to be good neighbors - even Catholics - are either doing so through the power of God or Satan. Which is it?

 

[Moriah]

You keep using verses speaking of elect believers...and trying to say the natural man does these things.

Oh, maybe you have been accepting some of the things I have been saying. Something Calvinists do not believe in, you now believe. Calvinists always claimed the scripture in John is about God drawing people to Jesus prove limited atonement. Now, you admit they are drawn because they believed in God and were taught by Him. I hope that you will start to believe in more of the truth.
As for you saying, we cannot believe in Jesus after learning of him, read these scriptures, they tell us we get faith from hearing, learning, being convinced, and persuaded.

Where does our faith come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:14. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.

Here...you did it again,,,, then you accuse me of adding or taking away...stay on point!

Are you kidding me? Are you saying the scriptures telling us how we have faith is not for all after Jesus was lifted up? The natural man cannot understand the things of God; however, we are not to lean on our own understanding, Proverbs 3:5-6. If you are teaching that the saved must be convinced and persuaded, then you have problems with your beliefs, because you will not be able to explain how a born again saved person needs to be persuaded, if they are all ready saved!

You cannot understand the answers because of your dislike of the revealed truth.

Calvinists believe that once someone hears the message and believes, that they get another hidden message they get to believe. I love God's Truth. You love Calvin's word.

God chose sinners that he would save....He chose people that he would make willing to believe.

That is insanity. Calvinists believe that God created people without the ability to believe in Him, then, for no known reason, decided for no known reason to save some, and, for some unknown reason decided to send the rest to Hell. Oh, and Calvinists believe God calls ALL MEN to repentance, but knows they really cannot do it. In addition, God held His hand out to people, knowing not only that they would not come, but that they could not come! Again, that is insanity.

Well the topic was romans 8:29-30....Romans 8 deals with the Spirits work in the elect...so instead of dealing with these verses you cannot answer..you jump in to jn14..speaking about believers??? not exactly on topic.

The elect are the people who heard the message, believed, and obeyed. God knows us before we are born. God who knows the heart shows He accepts us when He gives us His Spirit. SEE ACTS 5:32. THAT IS WHAT GOD SAYS. If we are all only evil then what is God looking in our heart for? I want you to answer that question now, or stop believing and teaching falseness.

Actually..it is...maybe you will come to understand it sometime:thumbs:

Calvinists beliefs are only assumptions, assumptions from a man's thoughts. I wonder where Calvin got those thoughts from, it must of came to him as if out of the thin air. Who is the prince of the air? What does the word say?

It does not say a plan was foreknown.
it is you adding your thought to the clear teaching of scripture;
it does not say;
for those who would believe in His Son.....God foreknew a plan..you have it wrong...dead wrong and backwards.

You even try to change what I say. God foreknew people, and God made the plan for salvation before the creation of the world.

Your reply and false teaching is a gospel of works

He becomes born again after he believes the message, then when God accepts that person
Man does something...then god reacts to what man does Jesus said a man must be born again,or he cannot see....

you falsely teach man doessomething without the Spirit as if he does not need new birth..this is a wicked falsehood as written...maybe you did not intend to say this???

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
Are you going to continue to deny the Word of God?

John the baptists prepared the way for the Lord. The Jews had to repent before Jesus, before the Savior would come to them. It is the same for us we must repent. That is what Jesus tells us to do! Jesus says, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." These people did NOT yet have the Holy Spirit yet, because Jesus did not die yet and resurrect and go to the Father yet! Your beliefs go AGAINST the Word of God. Your beliefs make a mockery of God. God says, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." Calvinists mock God and says, "God says, you cannot repent until I give you the kingdom."

You cannot learn of Jesus unless drawn of the Father by the Spirit..this verse shows how it happens. Individuals are chosen of the God from the beginning...not a plan....
Moriah...I can show verses..but if you do not understand what you are reading...you do not have the verses.

The plan was made before the creation of the world!
"For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake" (1 Peter 1:18-20).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

AGREE! Dead men can't do anything.

Yes, but spiritually dead men can.

They can "resist the Holy Spirit":

"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye" (Acts 7:51).

They can also believe the "good news" of Jesus Christ and by doing so be regenerated (receive life):

"Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believethat Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:30-31).

 

[Iconoclast]

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
Are you going to continue to deny the Word of God?

You have posted this verse 4-5 times at least.....let's see

32and we are His witnesses of these sayings, and the Holy Spirit also, whom God gave to those obeying him.'


he is describing the condition of the believers.....those obeying Him.
They obey because they have the Spirit...not the other way around..


they obey and go on obeying....like believers believe and go on believing...because of the new birth.

5For those who are according to the flesh, the things of the flesh do mind; and those according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit;

6for the mind of the flesh [is] death, and the mind of the Spirit -- life and peace;

7because the mind of the flesh [is] enmity to God, for to the law of God it doth not subject itself,

8for neither is it able; and those who are in the flesh are not able to please God.
9And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ -- this one is not His;

Nothing in the bible is going to contradict anything in the bible....those in the flesh....cannot ...subject itself to God.....you say they can...by mis-using acts 5;32

if you look at the two positions..biblical calvinism takes all the verses into account.....All the Apostles were calvinists!

The plan was made before the creation of the world!
"For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake" (1 Peter 1:18-20).

yes....the plan...was the covenant of redemption,the covenant of grace that is passed on to the elect of God in time....

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

The Father elects a multitude of sinners in Christ....the Son dies for them,accomplishes redemption of the elect children....The Spirit applies that redemption......thats is the plan ...individuals ,saved and then brought into Union with Christ[I will be their God, they shall be my people] ...the covenant keeping God.

:thumbs:

 

[preacher4truth]

You have posted this verse 4-5 times at least.....let's see

32and we are His witnesses of these sayings, and the Holy Spirit also, whom God gave to those obeying him.'


he is describing the condition of the believers.....those obeying Him.
They obey because they have the Spirit...not the other way around..


they obey and go on obeying....like believers believe and go on believing...because of the new birth.


Nothing in the bible is going to contradict anything in the bible....those in the flesh....cannot ...subject itself to God.....you say they can...by mis-using acts 5;32

:thumbsup:

 

[plain_n_simple]

All the Apostles were calvinists

I'll bet you think Jesus was a Calvinist too....

 

[Iconoclast]

All the Apostles were calvinists

I'll bet you think Jesus was a Calvinist too....

Yes.....He as God was there when the plan of Redemption was made,among the Godhead, even in His humiliation and taking on a body of flesh, he never denied or failed to do the Fathers will.
Not only that He revealed the Father, and the Decree....

1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.

5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Plain and simple...if you understand this and see it fulfilled at the cross..hebrews 2

8Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

pns...if you understand this with psalm 22 and Jn 17....you will understand that what is called calvinism.....is simply the unfolded truth of God's decree and eternal covenant unfolded in time , and understood by the objects of His love.....Jesus taught fully calvinistic teaching..before calvin or any other man ever was born....Jn 3, Jn 5.Jn 6:37-44 Jn 8 Jn 10 jn 17.....fully and 100% calvinistic teaching...not an arminian verse in there anywhere.
Not only taught by Jesus...he ordained the apostles to be with Him, taught it to them, then had the Spirit come and quicken them that they could understand it.....carnal minds cannot....

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
The carnal mind ...cannot ...receive the things of the Spirit.

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
They could not fully grasp the teachings with minds that were transformed!

26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.


12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
The Apostles were promised to be guided into all truth....they could not bear it, until the Spirit enabled them too...
This promise was unique to them as foundational for the church...

The Apostles were Reformed Baptists....in theology.

 

[Moriah]

You have posted this verse 4-5 times at least.....let's see

32and we are His witnesses of these sayings, and the Holy Spirit also, whom God gave to those obeying him.'


he is describing the condition of the believers.....those obeying Him.
They obey because they have the Spirit...not the other way around..


they obey and go on obeying....like believers believe and go on believing...because of the new birth.

Read again, it looks like I might have to post this scripture 4 or 5 more times. You said they obey and go on obeying...because of the new birth. THAT IS NOT WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS! THEY OBEYED, THEN THEY WERE GIVEN THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Nothing in the bible is going to contradict anything in the bible....those in the flesh....cannot ...subject itself to God.....you say they can...by mis-using acts 5;32

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

THE HOLY SPIRIT, WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN TO THOSE WHBEY HIM.

God has given the Holy Spirit TO THOSE WHBEY HIM.

God's word does not contradict. You deny and twist God's word.

Acts 5:32 is telling us what Jesus tells us in John 14:23...

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

How are you going to twist that scripture? Let's go through this one slowly, then maybe I will not have to post it more for you.

JESUS...REPLIED,..."IF...ANYONE...LOVES...ME...HE...WILL...OBEY...MY...TEACHING...MY...FATHER...WILL...LOVE...HIM,...AND...WE...WILL...COME...TO...HIM...AND...MAKE...OUR...HOME...WITH...HIM.

The Father and Jesus will come to you, NOT BEFORE, but AFTER you love HIM, and those who love Him are the ones who OBEY. The Father and Jesus will make their home with the ones who love and obey Him. When the Father and Jesus make their home with the one who obeys, that is our receiving the Holy Spirit. I am wondering if you will now repent of following falseness, if not, how, how, how are you going to twist what this beautiful and powerful scripture says.

 

[Moriah]

All the Apostles were calvinists

I'll bet you think Jesus was a Calvinist too....