The Judgement of man

[freeatlast]

Brother, I don't think freeatlasts intent is preaching the Gospel, but presenting earmarks of those who are redeemed.

- Peace

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
In fact the evidence of the redeemed and who is not. Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, but judgment will be levied by the law/commandments according to scripture.

 

[agedman]

Jesus is the end of the law to all who believe on him....

Does that mean we come live as we desire?
No, rather the Bible states that we have been freed from being in bondage to the law and our flesh, to being alive in Christ, and now empowered by the HS to be able to live as we should, as its HIM working in us!

Jesus kept ALL the law perfectly, God took his perfect obedience and credits to us what he did for us....

That is why the law 'ended" for us, as we now live by Christ in us, by the HS, not by trying to obey God to keep all the law, as Christ already did THAT part for us!

I totally agree!

 

[freeatlast]

I once thought so, too.

But, having observed his continued return to this theme, I am wondering if there is not a greater issue that impacts upon him.

Earmarks of the redeemed are great. But keeping the commandments is not an earmark.

What is the fruit of the Holy Spirit living in the believer? That is the earmarks.

What is added to the faith by the believer that eventually they may actually love as God loves? That is the earmarks.

The rich young ruler kept the commandments, and in FAL's view that would be proof positive of the salvation of that young man.

But Christ deems the believer is better fitted when the Holy Spirit is thriving within than merely keeping the commandments.

FAL would possibly be better showing the attributes of a believer in comparison to an unbeliever and therefore bringing to the thread the wisdom of discernment rather than judgement.

Keeping the commandments according to scripture is the evidence of being saved.
1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14

 

[agedman]

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
In fact the evidence of the redeemed and who is not. Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, but judgment will be levied by the law/commandments according to scripture.

However, FAL,

I am not diminishing the desire of the believer to keep the commandments.


However, As I posted in context from Acts, this whole question was asked and answered by the Apostles.

You don't agree with their statement, or their statement is in disagreement with the Scriptures you posted, or your selection of posted scriptures are nothing but trying to "proof text" a view that is not valid.

What were the EXACT commands the Apostles stated the believers were to keep?

What was their statement as to the rest of the "law of Mosses?"

How does that agree with what you are putting forth?

I DO NOT see the keeping of commandments as "earmarking" a person as saved or not.

BTW, earmarking is an identification of ownership. That job was given to the Holy Spirit - not the law.

 

[freeatlast]

However, FAL,

I am not diminishing the desire of the believer to keep the commandments.


However, As I posted in context from Acts, this whole question was asked and answered by the Apostles.

You don't agree with their statement, or their statement is in disagreement with the Scriptures you posted, or your selection of posted scriptures are nothing but trying to "proof text" a view that is not valid.

What were the EXACT commands the Apostles stated the believers were to keep?

What was their statement as to the rest of the "law of Mosses?"

How does that agree with what you are putting forth?

I DO NOT see the keeping of commandments as "earmarking" a person as saved or not.

BTW, earmarking is an identification of ownership. That job was given to the Holy Spirit - not the law.

I agree with what the bible says and you do not.
Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone but the faith that produces salvation also keeps the commandments.
How does the Bible summarize the answer to our question, "By what standard will we be judged"?
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether it is good or whether it is evil." Ecclesiastes 12:13,14

Are God's commandments burdensome to those who are truly born again?
"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith." 1 John 5:3, 4

What motive should prompt us to keep God's law?
"If you love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15

1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14

 

[agedman]

Keeping the commandments according to scripture is the evidence of being saved.
1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14

You are like a one trick pony.

You don't answer the questions and only repost what you consider is an answer.

Show IN CONTEXT that each of those verses are applicable to your view.

Then there might be some ground for discussion.

Until then, they remain precious Scripture, but not applicable as proof of your view, for as you would apply those Scriptures they are in total disagreement with the statement to the church made by the Apostles.


Either you are wrong or the Apostles.

Perhaps you can show me how the Apostles said, "All believers are to keep the commandments as proof they are indeed saved."

 

[freeatlast]

My point would still stand regarding to salvation...

Fal would have us being under the burdern of keeping the law well enough to prove that we are saved...

salvation immediate one time act of God towards us, and he knows whom he has redeemed, and in jesus ALL that get saved will stay saved!

We DO need to be those whose lives give witness to others of the garce of God in operation, but TAHT is produced by the HS in and throguh us living out the new life in Christ, NOT by us trying hard to keep all 10 Commandments!

I know that fal is concerned with one just professing jesus, but not living lives reflecting that he is in us, but keeping the law for that purpose NOT way to go!

Well we have what you say and what God says. Guess who I am going to believe?
God says that those who keep the commandments have the right to the tree of life. He also says if we are not keeping them we are liars and do not know Him.
We are saved by grace through faith but the faith that saves is if a nature that produces commandment keepers.
Eph 2:8-10

 

[freeatlast]

You are like a one trick pony.

You don't answer the questions and only repost what you consider is an answer.

Show IN CONTEXT that each of those verses are applicable to your view.

Then there might be some ground for discussion.

Until then, they remain precious Scripture, but not applicable as proof of your view, for as you would apply those Scriptures they are in total disagreement with the statement to the church made by the Apostles.


Either you are wrong or the Apostles.

Perhaps you can show me how the Apostles said, "All believers are to keep the commandments as proof they are indeed saved."

The scripture is true. it is you who is wrong by denying it.

1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14

 

[saturneptune]

There was once a thread on this board several years ago called the 24 hour sinless day, which I concluded was impossible. The verse being used to keep his commandments is the life we get when we are changed by Jesus Christ through faith. Our nature is now not to sin vs the old life of habitual sin. That does not mean we will never sin again, but when we do, we ask for forgivness and go on. There is a vast difference between that and the way the verse about obeying my commandments is being presented. It is being presented in a Pharisee type mindset, instead of a I love the Lord mindset. One verse that seems to have been left out is that if we say we have no sin, we are liars, and guess what, you just sinned again. It shows how much we need Jesus, not how well we can obey a set of memorized rules under our own power. Common sense goes a long way, if you have it.

 

[freeatlast]

There was once a thread on this board several years ago called the 24 hour sinless day, which I concluded was impossible. The verse being used to keep his commandments is the life we get when we are changed by Jesus Christ through faith. Our nature is now not to sin vs the old life of habitual sin. That does not mean we will never sin again, but when we do, we ask for forgivness and go on. There is a vast difference between that and the way the verse about obeying my commandments is being presented. It is being presented in a Pharisee type mindset, instead of a I love the Lord mindset. One verse that seems to have been left out is that if we say we have no sin, we are liars, and guess what, you just sinned again. It shows how much we need Jesus, not how well we can obey a set of memorized rules under our own power. Common sense goes a long way, if you have it.

Man's common sense is nothing but man's folly unto error, but faith and obedience is the major thing as every man is a liar and God is true. In using 1 John that speaks about if we have no sin you misrepresent the scriptures to present a false claim. That passage is saying if a person says they have never sinned they are liars, not that they made it through one day with no sin. Your claims are false, but this is true.
The scripture is true. it is you who is wrong by denying it.

1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14

You are proving my point about law/commandment haters because when they are brought up those who hate them argue against them for the believer.

 

[saturneptune]

Man's common sense is nothing but man's folly unto error, but faith and obedience is the major thing as every man is a liar and God is true. In using 1 John that speaks about if we have no sin you misrepresent the scriptures to present a false claim. That passage is saying if a person says they have never sinned they are liars, not that they made it through one day with no sin. Your claims are false, but this is true.
The scripture is true. it is you who is wrong by denying it.

1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14

You are proving my point about law/commandment haters because when they are brought up those who hate them argue against them for the believer.

I do not mean to argue with you, and think that it is a matter of wording, but there is a big difference between practicing sin and never committing sin, which I cannot do, and do not believe you can. I usually agree with your posts. In fact, the anger in your recent posts might be a sin in itself. There is no way I can go 24 hours without some selfish thought, deed or motive, maybe without even realizing it. If we could go a day without sinning, we could go a lifetime without sinning. Telling people their opinions are false because you do not agree with them is not really the way to go about debating.

 

[freeatlast]

I do not mean to argue with you, and think that it is a matter of wording, but there is a big difference between practicing sin and never committing sin, which I cannot do, and do not believe you can. I usually agree with your posts. In fact, the anger in your recent posts might be a sin in itself. There is no way I can go 24 hours without some selfish thought, deed or motive, maybe without even realizing it. If we could go a day without sinning, we could go a lifetime without sinning. Telling people their opinions are false because you do not agree with them is not really the way to go about debating.

Perhaps my debating skills need grooming, I do not know. I look at the Lord and see how He did it as well as the prophets and try to do as they did, but I am sure I do not measure up to their skills. If I am faulty please pray I grow in that area. I would point out that anger is not a sin in itself, and I am not angry with anyone on here. My failure to come across as I intend many times is a problem as my literary skills and are much in need of improvement.

I can tell you that claiming we cannot live above sin is self defeating at best and and not biblical at the worst. I believe we can according to scripture and that it is not impossible, just not sought after as it should be. In fact I make the claim it is even discouraged to seek after such.The reason is that it shines too much light on those who do not want to seek such so diligently. I think that many people pile burdens on the backs of men that they cannot bare themselves. By that I mean many people call things sin that are not sin.
This one scripture, although there are many, that proves to me without a doubt we can do it.
1Cor 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

If we will apply the word of God as given I believe it is possible and scripture agrees with that as far as I can see. All sin is a choice. If we are having trouble with thoughts then here is the answer.
Phl. 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.

It takes personal sacrafice and that does not come easily to us.

 

[saturneptune]

Perhaps[SIZE=+0] my debating skills need grooming, I do not know. I look at the Lord and see how He did it as well as the prophets and try to do as they did, but I am sure I do not measure up to their skills. I would point out that anger is not a sin in itself, and I am not angry with anyone on here. My failure to come across as I intend many times is a problem as my literary skills are much in need of improvement.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0] I can tell you that claiming we cannot live above sin is self defeating at best and and not biblical at the worst. I believe we can according to scripture and that it is not impossible, just not sought after as it should be. In fact I make the claim it is even discouraged to seek after such. I think that many people pile burdens on the backs of men that they cannot bare themselves. By that I mean many people call things sin that are not sin.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]This one scripture, although there are many, that proves to me without a doubt we can do it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]1Cor 10:13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it]. [/SIZE]


If we will apply the word of God as given I believe it is possible and scripture agrees with that as far as I can see. All sin is a choice. If we are having trouble with thoughts then here is the answer.
Phl. 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.

I agree with that completely. I have a long way to go to be what the Lord would have me to be. The Lord changed my life, but I still do not live up to what He wants. The solution is more faith in Him and a closer walk. One of my biggest downfalls is total frustration at those who will not respond to the Gospel on my time table, or lazy people in the church who will not help. No doubt those feelings are a sin. I could go all day and give examples, but this is one of my biggest faults, probably followed my total dislike of arrogance. We all have different areas of weakness, and that is why brothers and sisters in Christ who are strong in our weak areas can help us mature.

 

[preacher4truth]

I agree with that completely. I have a long way to go to be what the Lord would have me to be. The Lord changed my life, but I still do not live up to what He wants. The solution is more faith in Him and a closer walk. One of my biggest downfalls is total frustration at those who will not respond to the Gospel on my time table, or lazy people in the church who will not help. No doubt those feelings are a sin. I could go all day and give examples, but this is one of my biggest faults, probably followed my total dislike of arrogance. We all have different areas of weakness, and that is why brothers and sisters in Christ who are strong in our weak areas can help us mature.

:thumbsup:

 

[DaChaser1]

The scripture is true. it is you who is wrong by denying it.

1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14

We just disagree with how you understand what the intent of the author is!

 

[freeatlast]

We just disagree with how you understand what the intent of the author is!

Yes, I believe He means what He says.

 

[HankD]

I have tried to get FAL to tell me of which commandments John is speaking.

There are those commandments in the law of Moses. There are 613 commandments (mitzvouth) in the Torah (first 5 books of the Bible).

Then there are the commandments of Christ in the NT.
These are those which Jesus calls His own.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.​

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.​

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.​

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.​

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.​

ohn 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.​

FAL, Is there a word which predominates all the others?

"love one another".

Do each of us here at the BB (and this thread) live up to this one commandment?

HankD​

 

[agedman]

I agree with that completely. I have a long way to go to be what the Lord would have me to be. The Lord changed my life, but I still do not live up to what He wants. The solution is more faith in Him and a closer walk. One of my biggest downfalls is total frustration at those who will not respond to the Gospel on my time table, or lazy people in the church who will not help. No doubt those feelings are a sin. I could go all day and give examples, but this is one of my biggest faults, probably followed my total dislike of arrogance. We all have different areas of weakness, and that is why brothers and sisters in Christ who are strong in our weak areas can help us mature.

This is Great!!!

:thumbs::thumbs:

 

[DaChaser1]

Yes, I believe He means what He says.

Do you believe that one can be saved and still be sinning at times?
that good works will accompany getting saved, but how obedient we are to "keeping the Commandments" does NOT interfere with our salvation?

Which Commandment is the greatest, as per jesus?

Love the Lord your God fully/completely, love your neighbor as yourself!

have you EVER kept that command to the standard God requires it to be ?

be ye perfect, Just as your Father in heaven is...

Have you managed to do that perfectly since getting saved?

 

[agedman]

The scripture is true. it is you who is wrong by denying it.

I am NOT denying Scripture. For you to assume that is the case is wrong!


I merely ask you to look at your post of Scriptures in light of what the Apostles stated in Acts.

Can you reconcile the word of the Apostles to your Scriptures?

If you can't then one Scripture calls the other in error.

If you can, then it will require you to modify what you consider a commandment that the gentiles are to follow.

I hold that Scriptures do not argue against each other, but that each Scripture principle is build upon Scripture connecting to Scripture.

I will again state, that it is abundantly clear that the true believer will strive to keep the "ten commandments." This is as it should be.

I will again state, that it is abundantly clear that the true believe cannot keep the "ten commandments." This is the frailty of the human condition.

If you can support your claim to be agreeable to what the apostles stated in Acts, I have no problem.

If you cannot support your claim to be agreeable to what the apostles stated in Acts, the problem is yours.

Of course you can always use a fall back position, that the commandments the apostles told the church to keep are the ones you are making the claim we are to uphold. We would then be in agreement.