• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Judgement of man

DaChaser1

New Member
I am NOT denying Scripture. For you to assume that is the case is wrong!


I merely ask you to look at your post of Scriptures in light of what the Apostles stated in Acts.

Can you reconcile the word of the Apostles to your Scriptures?

If you can't then one Scripture calls the other in error.

If you can, then it will require you to modify what you consider a commandment that the gentiles are to follow.

I hold that Scriptures do not argue against each other, but that each Scripture principle is build upon Scripture connecting to Scripture.

I will again state, that it is abundantly clear that the true believer will strive to keep the "ten commandments." This is as it should be.

I will again state, that it is abundantly clear that the true believe cannot keep the "ten commandments." This is the frailty of the human condition.

If you can support your claim to be agreeable to what the apostles stated in Acts, I have no problem.

If you cannot support your claim to be agreeable to what the apostles stated in Acts, the problem is yours.

Of course you can always use a fall back position, that the commandments the apostles told the church to keep are the ones you are making the claim we are to uphold. We would then be in agreement.

We keep the law of God written in our hearts...

Why and How?
the HS Himself indwells us, he is God, so His will is perfect, and His guidance/direction will be too...

How? By yielding to the Hs, submitting the desires of the flesh to Him and allow Him to empower us to daily live as a Christian should!

Fal seems to want to co mingle law and Grace...

its either/or not both!
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
We keep the law of God written in our hearts...

Why and How?
the HS Himself indwells us, he is God, so His will is perfect, and His guidance/direction will be too...

How? By yielding to the Hs, submitting the desires of the flesh to Him and allow Him to empower us to daily live as a Christian should!

Fal seems to want to co mingle law and Grace...

its either/or not both!

You are correct. :thumbs:

And this was the heart of the argument brought to the Apostles.

To ignore that argument and the results, is to bring the other Scriptures out of the perspective that they must in truth be assigned.

It is NEVER an attempt to water down the impact of the need to live to the expectations of the ten and even exceed them at times.

It is the judgement on matters of salvation and eternity that can become a hazard along the way and cause others to become doubtful and make missteps that lead into doctrinal error.
 

freeatlast

New Member
We keep the law of God written in our hearts...

Why and How?
the HS Himself indwells us, he is God, so His will is perfect, and His guidance/direction will be too...

How? By yielding to the Hs, submitting the desires of the flesh to Him and allow Him to empower us to daily live as a Christian should!

Fal seems to want to co mingle law and Grace...

its either/or not both!

[SIZE=+0]If it was kept in your heart it would be kept in your living as well because form the heart proceeds our lives. Evil heart evil lives. Good heart good life.[/SIZE]
The haters of God's commands seek to discourage people from keeping them because they know it shines light on them and they do not want others to see them for what they really are, law breakers.
1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14
 

DaChaser1

New Member
[SIZE=+0]If it was kept in your heart it would be kept in your living as well because form the heart proceeds our lives. Evil heart evil lives. Good heart good life.[/SIZE]
The haters of God's commands seek to discourage people from keeping them because they know it shines light on them and they do not want others to see them for what they really are, law breakers.
1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14

the Holy Spirit, IF we allow Him too, will live the new life of Christ in and through us!

We desire to please and obey God in our new natures, but old sin nature fight that daily basis...

When we chose to yield to Him, good fruit produced...

Don't focus on law keeping, but on relationship with jesus and daily abiding inHim...

Allow the HS to move in and through you, that is way to "keep the law" as its Him keeping for you!
 

freeatlast

New Member
the Holy Spirit, IF we allow Him too, will live the new life of Christ in and through us!

We desire to please and obey God in our new natures, but old sin nature fight that daily basis...

When we chose to yield to Him, good fruit produced...

Don't focus on law keeping, but on relationship with jesus and daily abiding inHim...

Allow the HS to move in and through you, that is way to "keep the law" as its Him keeping for you!
.
Here is the truth and not what you say.
1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14
 

DaChaser1

New Member
.
Here is the truth and not what you say.
1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14

here is THE Truth regarding salvation!

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, and good works follow after that, but wedo them NOT to get saved, nor be saved, but they are done by God in and through us!
 

freeatlast

New Member
here is THE Truth regarding salvation!

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, and good works follow after that, but wedo them NOT to get saved, nor be saved, but they are done by God in and through us!

Very nice but this is not about salvation.
 

freeatlast

New Member
In post #24 and then restated in more declarative terms in post #40.

Using post #24 would be the best place to start.
If I am understanding you your question is an attempt to pit lack of scripture from a particular book against stated scripture in another book.
IN regards to the OP while we are saved by grace through faith here is how men will be judged as to if they are saved or lost.

How does the Bible summarize the answer to our question, "By what standard will we be judged"?
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether it is good or whether it is evil." Ecclesiastes 12:13,14

Are God's commandments burdensome to those who are truly born again?
"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith." 1 John 5:3, 4

What motive should prompt us to keep God's law?
"If you love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15

1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14
 
Last edited by a moderator:

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If I am understanding you your question is an attempt to pit lack of scripture from a particular book against stated scripture in another book.
IN regards to the OP here is how men will be judged as to if they are saved or lost.

What lack of Scripture?

Did you read the account of the question being dealt with in Acts?

Did you not read the huge dispute and the resolution to that dispute?

I am asking you to clarify what you consider is a command to keep in comparison to what the Apostles stated the gentiles were accountable to keep.

I am asking you to compare Scripture with Scripture which is the appropriate method of building any faith and practice for a believer. That in all matters the Scriptures are the basis.

I have no doubt that the commandments of God are not what are held in comparison to all areas of the believer's living. And as such, provides the spark to ignite and burn off anything less than what the Holy Spirit working in the believer and through the believer accomplishes. God is not going to allow anything less than perfection into His perfection.
 

freeatlast

New Member
What lack of Scripture?

Did you read the account of the question being dealt with in Acts?

Did you not read the huge dispute and the resolution to that dispute?

I am asking you to clarify what you consider is a command to keep in comparison to what the Apostles stated the gentiles were accountable to keep.

I am asking you to compare Scripture with Scripture which is the appropriate method of building any faith and practice for a believer. That in all matters the Scriptures are the basis.

I have no doubt that the commandments of God are not what are held in comparison to all areas of the believer's living. And as such, provides the spark to ignite and burn off anything less than what the Holy Spirit working in the believer and through the believer accomplishes. God is not going to allow anything less than perfection into His perfection.

I don't understand your question.
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here are two posts (both slightly modified to remove extemporaneous remarks) in which to draw your attention. At the end of the second post, I asked specific questions.


"Obedience is the very best way to show that we believe..." (Mike and Ruth Greene)

However, FAL doesn't seem to present the commandments as extensions of the believers desire to please God, but as a condition of determining the salvation of a person.

The Apostle Paul clearly holds that such is not an indicator. In fact, when the subject was contentious and brought (by Paul) before the first church of Jerusalem the council determined that the law was not at all (with the exception indicated) applicable to the Gentile believers.

Here is the actual contention and decision.

Ac 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 ¶ And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knows the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
22 ¶ Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.


However, FAL,

I am not diminishing the desire of the believer to keep the commandments.

You don't agree with their (the apostles) statement, or their statement is in disagreement with the Scriptures you posted, or your selection of posted scriptures are nothing but trying to "proof text" a view that is not valid.

What were the EXACT commands the Apostles stated the believers were to keep?

What was their statement as to the rest of the "law of Mosses?"

How does that agree with what you are putting forth?

I DO NOT see the keeping of commandments as "earmarking" a person as saved or not.

BTW, earmarking is an identification of ownership. That job was given to the Holy Spirit - not the law.
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So what is your question as I answered that in post 51 ?

I didn't recognize you using any part of Acts in your response, nor placing into that context (Acts) your view of the commandments.

I will place the questions here for you to respond.

1. What were the EXACT commands the Apostles stated the believers were to keep?

2. What was their statement as to the rest of the "law of Mosses?"

3. How does that agree with what you are putting forth?​

I will add a fourth statement and question.

I hold that the ten commandments are the "bench marks" of acceptability in which all man's work (both the saved and unsaved) will be judged. That which not of the Spirit will be burned up as Paul states.

4. Is this what you are in agreement and actually indicating by proof of the Scriptures you posted, or is there something else that you are getting at?​
 

freeatlast

New Member
I didn't recognize you using any part of Acts in your response, nor placing into that context (Acts) your view of the commandments.

I will place the questions here for you to respond.
1. What were the EXACT commands the Apostles stated the believers were to keep?

2. What was their statement as to the rest of the "law of Mosses?"

3. How does that agree with what you are putting forth?
I will add a fourth statement and question.

I hold that the ten commandments are the "bench marks" of acceptability in which all man's work (both the saved and unsaved) will be judged. That which not of the Spirit will be burned up as Paul states.
4. Is this what you are in agreement and actually indicating by proof of the Scriptures you posted, or is there something else that you are getting at?

It is not about one book. It is about all that Christ taught. Here is the scripture. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. True believer will keep the commandments and the lost do not. Both will be judged by them to verify their real standing with God according to scripture.
How does the Bible summarize the answer to our question, "By what standard will we be judged"?
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether it is good or whether it is evil." Ecclesiastes 12:13,14

Are God's commandments burdensome to those who are truly born again?
"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith." 1 John 5:3, 4

What motive should prompt us to keep God's law?
"If you love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15

1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
How does the Bible summarize the answer to our question, "By what standard will we be judged"?
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether it is good or whether it is evil." Ecclesiastes 12:13,14

Are God's commandments burdensome to those who are truly born again?
"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith." 1 John 5:3, 4

What motive should prompt us to keep God's law?
"If you love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15

1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14

So, using what you have posted, I could draw the following conclusions.

That keeping the commandments of God will assure me of heaven.

That keeping the commandments of God means I am "born of God."

That keeping the commandments of God means that I know God.

That keeping the commandments of God means that I love God.
Then it must also follow that:

That not keeping the commandments of God will assure me of hell.

That not keeping the commandments of God means I am born of Satan.

That not keeping the commandments of God means that I do not know God.

That not keeping the commandments of God means that I hate God.
Of course if this is what you are stating as the condition of fallen man, then you would be drawn into agreement with the Calvinistic thinking of salvation. :)

You still haven't reconciled your statements and Scripture proof with what is found in the Acts.
 

DaChaser1

New Member
If I am understanding you your question is an attempt to pit lack of scripture from a particular book against stated scripture in another book.
IN regards to the OP while we are saved by grace through faith here is how men will be judged as to if they are saved or lost.

How does the Bible summarize the answer to our question, "By what standard will we be judged"?
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether it is good or whether it is evil." Ecclesiastes 12:13,14

Are God's commandments burdensome to those who are truly born again?
"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith." 1 John 5:3, 4

What motive should prompt us to keep God's law?
"If you love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15

1John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

Who will be admitted into heaven?
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Revelation 22:14


the believer in Christ jesus has already passed from eternal death unto eternal life right here and now! 'Once saved/always saved"...

There is a Bhema judgement for saints, JUST for purpose of either rewards for good works done while here in the Body, or loss of rewards, but NOT for purpose of IF saved or lost!
 

freeatlast

New Member
So, using what you have posted, I could draw the following conclusions.
That keeping the commandments of God will assure me of heaven.

That keeping the commandments of God means I am "born of God."

That keeping the commandments of God means that I know God.

That keeping the commandments of God means that I love God.
Then it must also follow that:
That not keeping the commandments of God will assure me of hell.

That not keeping the commandments of God means I am born of Satan.

That not keeping the commandments of God means that I do not know God.

That not keeping the commandments of God means that I hate God.
Of course if this is what you are stating as the condition of fallen man, then you would be drawn into agreement with the Calvinistic thinking of salvation. :)

You still haven't reconciled your statements and Scripture proof with what is found in the Acts.


No you cannot. We are saved by grace through faith not keeping the commandments, but we will be judged by them as to who is saved and who is not. It is like someone who claims to be a power lifter. Put them in front of the weight and it will prove what they are or are not, but the weight does not make them one. They either are or are not a power lifter. The weight only verifies the truth or to say what already is. The same with the commandments.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top