Justified while Ungodly !

[savedbymercy]

Here is our little "parrot" friend who cannot refute the evidence his interpretation is wrong and so he simply "repeats" his errors.

You obviously reject the Truth that Christ became the Surety of the Elect in the Everlasting Covenant before the world began !

 

[The Biblicist]

You obviously reject the Truth that Christ became the Surety of the Elect in the Everlasting Covenant before the world began !

You don't know the difference between Covenanting to do something versus actually doing it. He obligated himself by covenant agreement to be the surety of the elect but the obligation did not FULFILL that covenant agreement. It was him coming and taking upon the form of a man and providing a sinless life and a substitutionary death that FULFILLED His covenant obligation as a surety for the elect.

Go learn what this means - "What I HAVE PURPOSED, I WILL DO it"

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

You don't know the difference between Covenanting to do something versus actually doing it.

I just explained it to you. Christ was made the Surety of the Covenant before the world began. God did not promise to make a Everlasting Covenant in time.

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

He obligated himself by covenant agreement to be the surety of the elect but the obligation did not FULFILL that covenant agreement.

He became under Covenant Obligation before the world began, regardless if He had not yet fullfilled the obligation n time, The Elect still never could have their trespasses imputed against them, because Christ had already struck Hands for Suretyship before the World began ! That is why, God could not impute their Trespasses againt them, Paul Preached it in His Gospel 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

When did God ever impute their Trespasses unto them ?

 

[savedbymercy]

When Paul became a Surety for the runaway slave Onesimus, He told his owner Philemon this Phil 1:18 If he hath wronged thee, or oweth thee ought, put that on mine account;

Now if Philemon did consent, and when his slave returned, and if he did owe his master anything, yet Philemon would be wrong to now expect payment of debt from slave Onesimus because he agreed with Paul to receive payment from him. That was a Covenant agreement. If Philemon did require payment from the slave any way. even if it was an lawful debt, he would be unjust and a covenant breaker with Paul. He legally only has a right to expect payment of slave Onesimus debt from Paul ! And so it is with God and Christ in Christ's Suretyship for the Elect !

 

[Yeshua1]

the bib



He became under Covenant Obligation before the world began, regardless if He had not yet fullfilled the obligation n time, The Elect still never could have their trespasses imputed against them, because Christ had already struck Hands for Suretyship before the World began ! That is why, God could not impute their Trespasses againt them, Paul Preached it in His Gospel 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

When did God ever impute their Trespasses unto them ?

God foreknow those whom He would save by the Cross of Christ, but they were NOT actually saved until placed faith in Christian!

You are mixing/distorting the truth, as those saved by the Grace of God will need to have the Holy Spirit convert them, changed their natures, and THAT all happens when born again, at time of faith in Christ!

 

[savedbymercy]

God foreknow those whom He would save by the Cross of Christ, but they were NOT actually saved until placed faith in Christian!

You are mixing/distorting the truth, as those saved by the Grace of God will need to have the Holy Spirit convert them, changed their natures, and THAT all happens when born again, at time of faith in Christ!

Distortion of the Truth !

 

[Yeshua1]

Distortion of the Truth !

WHICH part of the Bible that I used did you disagree with?

 

[savedbymercy]

When are the saints actually Glorified ?



Rom 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

When are the saints actually glorified ? Most will admit that the saint or believer has been predestinated in the past, called past, Justified past, Glorified future ! However, even though there is a most glorious experience of Glorification awaiting the Believer, and a manifestation of the same, that truth no way detracts from the Glorification the Believer now possesses. The word glorified is the greek word doxazō

think, suppose, be of opinion

2) to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate

3) to honour, do honour to, hold in honour

4) to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour

a) to impart glory to something, render it excellent

b) to make renowned, render illustrious

1) to cause the dignity and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledged

It means honored, dignified, exalted to Glory. It is written Lk 17:15

15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,

Yes a grateful leper glorified God. It is said that men shall see your good works and Glorify your Father which is in Heaven Matt 5:16 ! Now lets look at 1 Pet 4:14

14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

The believer is Glorified now because of the Spirits prescience with them and in them, even Christ, Christ in them the hope of Glory. The Believer is Glorified by reason of their sufferings and reproaches for Christ's sake. And it is given by God, not only to believe on Christ but also to suffer for Christ's Sake Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Rom 8:17

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Also, Christ's Glorification began when He was raised from the dead, and so was all His Members that He represented, and they were made to sit down together in heavenly places Eph 2:5-6

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Yes, even that is a present glorification of all for whom Christ died ! So Glorification is just like Salvation, or Justification, an aspect of it is experienced in this Life, and there is yet a future aspect of Salvation, Glorification, Justification and Redemption; For the Believer has been redeemed, and yet looks forward to the day of redemption, the Redemption of the Body, which is also Glorification !

 

[Yeshua1]

When are the saints actually Glorified ?



Rom 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

When are the saints actually glorified ? Most will admit that the saint or believer has been predestinated in the past, called past, Justified past, Glorified future ! However, even though there is a most glorious experience of Glorification awaiting the Believer, and a manifestation of the same, that truth no way detracts from the Glorification the Believer now possesses. The word glorified is the greek word doxazō

think, suppose, be of opinion

2) to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate

3) to honour, do honour to, hold in honour

4) to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour

a) to impart glory to something, render it excellent

b) to make renowned, render illustrious

1) to cause the dignity and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledged

It means honored, dignified, exalted to Glory. It is written Lk 17:15

15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,

Yes a grateful leper glorified God. It is said that men shall see your good works and Glorify your Father which is in Heaven Matt 5:16 ! Now lets look at 1 Pet 4:14

14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

The believer is Glorified now because of the Spirits prescience with them and in them, even Christ, Christ in them the hope of Glory. The Believer is Glorified by reason of their sufferings and reproaches for Christ's sake. And it is given by God, not only to believe on Christ but also to suffer for Christ's Sake Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Rom 8:17

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Also, Christ's Glorification began when He was raised from the dead, and so was all His Members that He represented, and they were made to sit down together in heavenly places Eph 2:5-6

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Yes, even that is a present glorification of all for whom Christ died ! So Glorification is just like Salvation, or Justification, an aspect of it is experienced in this Life, and there is yet a future aspect of Salvation, Glorification, Justification and Redemption; For the Believer has been redeemed, and yet looks forward to the day of redemption, the Redemption of the Body, which is also Glorification !

saints will be glorified by God at either the Rapture of the Church, or at time of Second Coming, whichever comes first!

 

[savedbymercy]

God's Justification of His Elect is Twofold, it is first and foremost forensic and declarative of God's Mind, and then it is experimental or internal, fir then God causes the Justified to live like it by Faith, for the experimental comes by the New Birth. All those whom God Justifies judicially by the Blood of Christ and His Grace Alone per Rom 5:9;3:24 shall be Justified experimentally by the Spirit 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

This scripture confirms a first Justification by Christ, His Blood, or in His Name, followed by the Justification the Spirit accomplishes, which is also because of Christ's Name or in recognition of His Work ! Hence God gives grace for the living according to their Judicial status. That is why it is imperative that all for whom Christ died, must be born again Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous [experimentally by New Birth].

In addition to making Christ's obedience the sole basis of forensic Justification, it is also the sole basis for constitutive righteousness which is brought to pass by New Birth !

 

[Yeshua1]

God's Justification of His Elect is Twofold, it is first and foremost forensic and declarative of God's Mind, and then it is experimental or internal, fir then God causes the Justified to live like it by Faith, for the experimental comes by the New Birth. All those whom God Justifies judicially by the Blood of Christ and His Grace Alone per Rom 5:9;3:24 shall be Justified experimentally by the Spirit 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

This scripture confirms a first Justification by Christ, His Blood, or in His Name, followed by the Justification the Spirit accomplishes, which is also because of Christ's Name or in recognition of His Work ! Hence God gives grace for the living according to their Judicial status. That is why it is imperative that all for whom Christ died, must be born again Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous [experimentally by New Birth].

In addition to making Christ's obedience the sole basis of forensic Justification, it is also the sole basis for constitutive righteousness which is brought to pass by New Birth !

The basis of my justification is the Cross of the Christ yet God ONLY applies that work to our behalf when we place faith in jesus!

We are bonm sinners. seperated and NOT reconciled/justified to God, so when did THAT occur in your life?

 

[savedbymercy]

Sometimes disobedient !



Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Even though the Elect by Nature were disobedient, yet even then, Paul never classified them and neither were they ever " The children of disobedience" as per Eph 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

In the greek the children of disobedience reads "toiv uioiv thv apeiqeiav;:

The definite article makes it clear that these are a definite group of people, they are the vessels of wrath Paul writes on in Rom 9:22. In other words, the children of disobedience will always be the children of disobedience !

The Elect, even though by Nature are children of wrath as others, and walk according to the prince of the power of the air, yet they have already been accepted or Highly Favored in the Beloved Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Yes, they have that status before God, by Grace, prior to their actual quickening in the Time state Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

The difference, the Elect, because of Christ's obedience, they shall be made Righteous ! Rom 5:19 and this is done by their New Birth by the Spirit, which causes their obedience to the Truth 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Belief of the Truth and obedience are the same !

 

[The Biblicist]

Sometimes disobedient !



Titus 3:3

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Even though the Elect by Nature were disobedient, yet even then, Paul never classified them and neither were they ever " The children of disobedience" as per Eph 2:2

One error leads to other errors, one perversion of scripture leads to other perversions of scripture and your position is FULL of errors and Perversions of scripture!

Now you are pitting Paul against Paul and making him deny what he said. He said the elect were "THE children of disobedience" - Eph. 2:2

the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom we had our convesration

He did not say "APART FROM WHOM" but "AMONG WHOM" and the Greek term translated "among" is "EN" or "IN WHOM". So you do not know what you are talking about (as usual).

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

He said the elect were "THE children of disobedience

No he did not, you are perverting scripture and reading into it your false ideals.

He wrote Eph 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

He did not say ye were the children of disobedience, but that they were once governed by the same spirit as they are being governed by even now !

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



No he did not, you are perverting scripture and reading into it your false ideals.

He wrote Eph 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

He did not say ye were the children of disobedience, but that they were once governed by the same spirit as they are being governed by even now !

Of course they are not "NOW" among the children of disobedience but they were "AMONG them" previous to regeneration or can't you read?

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Of course they are not "NOW" among the children of disobedience

The Elect will always be among the children of disobedience, for Jesus says Himself Matt 13:28-30

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So The elect are going to be among them while in the world, but they were never the children of disobedience, Paul does not say that, and as I have pointed out, the children of disobedience are a specific group, they always will be the children of disobedience ! They are the tares !

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Now before New Birth, the Elect only had one Nature, and that Nature was as the Non Elects, a Nature that was just like the children of disobedience, they also did nothing but walk according to that nature fulfilling the desires of the flesh and the mind, and by nature were the children of wrath , not the children of disobedience. For there is no greek article before the children of wrath as it is before the children of disobedience, because being a child of wrath is moreso describing a wad, a manner of life, and not a specific group of people !

 

[Yeshua1]

When and how does this new birth happen to the Elect though?

 

[The Biblicist]

the bib



The Elect will always be among the children of disobedience, for Jesus says Himself Matt 13:28-30

So you simply trash the difference of tense in Epheisans 2:2-3 between "now" and "were" by making both mean "always"??? You will stop at nothing to force the scriptures to teach your false doctrines.

 

[Yeshua1]

So you simply trash the difference of tense in Epheisans 2:2-3 between "now" and "were" by making both mean "always"??? You will stop at nothing to force the scriptures to teach your false doctrines.

Didn't it state that the ignorant twist the scriptures of paul to their own destruction?