BIG problem for those saying can lose salvation, in that Apostple John says that a christian cannot habitual sin, cannot NOT have faith!
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Answer this question and you will understand OSAS
- Thread starter steaver
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BIG problem for those saying can lose salvation, in that Apostple John says that a christian cannot habitual sin, cannot NOT have faith!
:thumbs:
For Jesus' seed remaineth!
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1Pt1:23)
Jesus did. In John 3 he told Nicodemus three different times that he needed to be born again. He compared physical birth to spiritual birth.
He said: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; that which is born of the spirit is spirit; you must be born again.
If you are born once you will die twice;
If you are born twice you will die once.
You must be born again.
Once born into God's family, you cannot be "unborn."
Michael Wrenn
New Member
Actually the analogy if being born implies that one cannot be unborn otherwise the analogy is of no value.
Michael Wrenn
New Member
"How can one stop believing in that which they have personal knowledge of is an absolute truth?"
How about because they become convinced that they were wrong about it being an absolute truth. I know someone personally this happened to; he's the guy I've talked about here.
Michael Wrenn
New Member
And I would say that you are confusing the physical with the spiritual, as many whom Jesus talked to did.
Now, before you jump on me -- no, I'm not saying you can't discern the difference, I'm just saying you are not doing so here.
Doesn't work, for he could not of had a personal knowledge of an absolute truth or he would not be able to stop believing that truth. For example, I have a personal absolute knowledge that my wife is indeed my wife, I know that for a fact, I know that through personal knowledge, I cannot stop believing that she is my wife, if I would say I don't believe it anymore I would be a liar.
Your friend obviously NEVER had that personal relationship with Jesus Christ but rather had a RELIGION. Jesus speaks of these types in Matthew 7 when He says "depart from me....I NEVER KNEW you". They NEVER had a personal relationship with Jesus, maybe they had a religion, maybe they just used Jesus' name, but a persoanl relationship they did not have, which is the only way one is saved and considered "born-again".
Let me ask you a question Michael, do you have a father or mother or children? If so, can you stop believing that these are who they are? Not just say you reject them or don't want to believe it, but actually stop believing they are who they are?
You can say that as to dismiss the fact of the matter, which is Jesus used physical birth as an analogy to spiritual birth.
Michael Wrenn
New Member
Actually, my friend did have a personal relationship with Jesus.
And about the example with you wife: Yes, she is your wife, but you have the freedom to leave her and divorce her, at which point she would no longer be your wife. In the same way, believers have the freedom to turn their backs on God and reject their salvation.
Michael Wrenn
New Member
To contrast the two, not to compare them -- as I stated.
Michael Wrenn
New Member
We are all God's children, created in His image, endowed with a free will, albeit weakened, to respond in acceptance or rejection of his offer of grace. We have that inherent ability before and after we receive salvation. God forces no one to come to Him and forces no one to stay. He draws us; he does not force us. That would violate Who He is, and an eternal part of His nature -- freedom.
Whatever choice we make, we remain his children -- his obedient faithful children, or his disobedient unfaithful children. we are his children whether we accept salvation and persevere, or reject our salvation that we once received. I don't know how it could be clearer or more simple than that.
Calvinism is a harmful belief system. It does not glorify God; it impugns his character.
I am not very much against OSAS but what about the following verses?
Rev 3
5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Was it a vain threat?
What about this?
Exodus 32
32Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book
convicted1
Guest
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
glfredrick
New Member
Which would be whom amongst those that Jesus taught about in the Parable of the Sower?
(Note: The SOWER sowed the seed... Cannot escape that God acts first unless one wishes to disavow the entire Bible and claim Pelagianism.)
That is simply not true. Galatians 1:15-16 clearly sets forth God as the author of both comparatively:
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me,
They are contrasting in the sense that one is not the other but they are compared to each other because God is the author of both and the one being born has no ACTIVE part in effecting either (James 1:18; Jn. 1:13; Gal. 1:15-16; 2 Cor. 4:6).
In the bible there are at least TWO different metaphorical books that a person can have their name blotted out and one book that a person cannot have his name blotted out.
1. The book of the PHYSICAL living
2. The book of the SPIRITUAL living
3. The book of the CITY living
The first book above is found in contexts where physical life is being terminated and the blotting is said to take place "under the heavens."
The second book is distinguished from the other two as it is called "the Lamb's" book of life and those written in this book are written "in heaven" and before the world began. No blotting out of this book.
The third always has to do with the New Jerusalem in the new heaven and earth and faithfulness is always the factor for remaining in this book and it is always addressed to those members of New Testament congregations. However, salvation is never in veiw in regard to this book but ones eternal residence in the NEW heaven and new earth. Revelation 21:24 occurs AFTER the Great White Throne (Rev. 20) and demonstrates there are "SAVED" who do not live in the New Jerusalem in the New heaven and new earth but live outside and walk in the light of it and their kings bring their glory into it. Hence, blotting out of this book does not effect ones salvation but ones place of residence in the new heaven and earth.
No. We are all God's creation, but not all God's children.
John 1
12 But to all who did receive Him,
He gave them the right to be children of God,
to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born,
not of blood,
or of the will of the flesh,
or of the will of man,
but of God.
You will never find God speaking of the unsaved as His children.
I'll throw a little monkey wrench into this one
Acts 17... 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill.
Two greek words for children, huios and teknon. We are all teknon (above passage), but only believers are huios.