Featured God allows but does not author evil

James 5:
17 Elijah was a human being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18 Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.

19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Colossians 1:
21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[Or minds, as shown by] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

James 1:
Trials and Temptations
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[The Greek word for brothers and sisters (adelphoi) refers here to believers, both men and women, as part of God’s family; also in verses 16 and 19; and in 2:1, 5, 14; 3:10, 12; 4:11; 5:7, 9, 10, 12, 19.] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.

1 Thessalonians 3

1 So when we could stand it no longer, we thought it best to be left by ourselves in Athens. 2 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and co-worker in God’s service in spreading the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, 3 so that no one would be unsettled by these trials. For you know quite well that we are destined for them. 4 In fact, when we were with you, we kept telling you that we would be persecuted. And it turned out that way, as you well know. 5 For this reason, when I could stand it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith. I was afraid that in some way the tempter had tempted you and that our labors might have been in vain.
Timothy’s Encouraging Report
6 But Timothy has just now come to us from you and has brought good news about your faith and love. He has told us that you always have pleasant memories of us and that you long to see us, just as we also long to see you. 7 Therefore, brothers and sisters, in all our distress and persecution we were encouraged about you because of your faith. 8 For now we really live, since you are standing firm in the Lord. 9 How can we thank God enough for you in return for all the joy we have in the presence of our God because of you? 10 Night and day we pray most earnestly that we may see you again and supply what is lacking in your faith.


Romans 8:28
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

Hebrews 3 :
Warning Against Unbelief
7 So, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
8 do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested and tried me,
though for forty years they saw what I did.
10 That is why I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”[Psalm 95:7-11]

12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

No matter what goes around us predestined by God it is never to bring a believer to unbelief, but to continue to trust in Him no matter what happens around us, we are called to encourage belief in God not unbelief even to those who are predestined to hell.

I believe I am predestined to be saved in Christ not apart from Him, I can not be saved on my own from condemnation.

 

I agree. So why are you writing this to me?

 

Hey Psalms,
God predestined you to good works because he elected you based on his perfect foreknowledge of your response to his suasory working of grace in your life.

 

the future is already 'fixed' by God , in the sense that ALL things that can be done in the Future He already knows of them!

He either determines the events by direct cause, or else allowed for others to "freely decide", but he already know what will happen, as history is already fully done deal to Him!

 

We are differently called to rest in Him and let Him work in our new life.

Romans 6:4
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

 

does God cause the train to smash, Jets fall out of the sky?

or is it, HINT, happen because we are still living on a World run under satanic system, under the bondage and curse of Sin?

God KNOWS what will happen, some of that because he directly caused it, others that He saw the event and chose to have it happen...

You sound like an Apostle of the rabbi that wrote 'Why bad things happen to good people"

His rationale was either God loves us, but is limited, or else God was all, yet was evil at times!

 

So God stays in control regardless of what happens, and always knows before hand what will happen?

 

would you say that there HAD to be the fall of BOTh Satan/Adam per the Will of God to have happened?

 

OK, you want an example of God knowing something that he did not will to come to pass. Judas.

Jhn 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Jhn 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Jesus knew beforehand that Judas would betray him. Jesus even chose Judas because he knew he would betray him and fulfill prophecy. But that does not mean God caused Judas to betray Jesus, the scriptures say God never tempts any man to sin.

Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The scriptures say God does not tempt "any" man to sin, but all men sin when they are drawn away of their "own" lust. God did not put the thought in Judas's mind to betray Jesus.

But God knew Judas would betray Jesus didn't he? It cannot be denied.

There is no way around this, Judas made his own free will decision to betray Jesus, God did not cause this. But God knew beforehand that Judas would make this decision.

This may not fit with your view, but it is what the scriptures plainly say.

Deut 31:15 And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.
16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?
18 And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.
19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
20 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.
21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
22 Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.

Here is another example of God's foreknowledge. He told Moses he knew Israel would go after other gods. He said he knows their imagination "even now" and "before" he brought them into the promised land.

Again, God does not tempt any man to sin, so this sin arose out of the hearts of the Jews themselves. Yet God knew what they would do beforehand.

So, if God did not tempt and cause the Jews to sin, and yet he knew before that they would, God can see and know the free will decisions of men before they actually take place.

We may not understand how God can foresee the free will decisions of men, but the scriptures show he can and does.

 

Well yes and no. It was partly Judas' decision to betray Him, but it was also God's plan and could not be stopped.

Here's what I mean. In Luke 22:31 Satan wants Simon, but Jesus won't allow Satan to have him.

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.


Satan also desired to have Judas.

John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

This time, Jesus allowed Satan to have what he wanted. Satan is still under the authority of God, and can only do what God allows. So once the devil entered Judas, he was not under his own power anymore. He was under Satan's power which God ordained.

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

Well stated Amy G!!!

 

Yes, God could have decided not to create us based on his perfect foreknowledge of what would happen and then sin never would have entered the universe that was never created. Which is better? I kind of prefer the option to create anyway!

 

I agree Winman. It all goes back to one's view of foreknowledge, since foreknowledge is the basis of election according to Peter.

 

Interesting that grammatically that is not necessarily so based from 1 Pet 1:1-2. I think John of Japan's son is pointing out something like this in his upcoming dissertation. For example, what exactly is κατα προγνωσιν? Is it "elect" or "exiles" or perhaps "dispersion" (a closer antecedent). Something to consider. I'd love to hear JoJ's take from what he has learned from his son's research.