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Featured God allows but does not author evil

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Feb 25, 2012.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You believe God can only prophecy what he has determined. This would mean men like Judas did not have free will. Yes, God declares the end from the beginning, so every prophecy is predetermined by God.
    Judas had free will up to the time God chose him to be the prophesied betrayer, then God overrode his capacity to choose not to betray Jesus.
     
    #141 Van, Mar 6, 2012
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Winman, a temptation is when we are attracted to something ungodly. God never tempts us, our temptations come from our internal lusts and prideful desires. God used the "evil desire" of Judas to carry out His prophecy, but this does not mean God tempted Judas. You are artificially attributing a meaning to the word tempted, to preclude God using someone whose heart has gone astray already, for His purpose. Unsound and unbiblical.

    We have a will that is only as free as God allows it to be free, we make plans but He directs our steps. And God can override us and cause us to fulfill His purpose and plan, such as using ungodly men to kill Jesus.
     
    #142 Van, Mar 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2012
  3. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    #143 DaChaser1, Mar 7, 2012
  4. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    God didn't have to cause the chief priests to want to kill Jesus, they had tried several times to kill Jesus before the crucifixion.

    Luk 4:28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
    29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
    30 But he passing through the midst of them went his way,

    Here is one of several times when they attempted to kill Jesus, but he escaped out of their hands. If these men were trying to kill Jesus because God had caused it, then they would not have attempted to kill him here, because it was not yet the proper time. Jesus had to "counter" their actions and escape from them. At the passover he allowed them to kill him.

    Jhn 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

    Here is another incident where the Pharisees attempted to kill Jesus, but he "countered" them and escaped through their midst.

    God did not cause the scribes and Pharisees to kill Jesus, they wanted to kill Jesus of their own and attempted to do so several times. Jesus escaped several times because it was not the appointed time for him to die. Only at the Passover did he allow these men to take him and crucify him.

    I wouldn't say God was directing these men's steps, he was actually countering it until the proper time.

    These men's wills were not controlled by God, God did not cause them to will to kill Jesus, God never does anything that is evil.

    In your view God is controlling a man's will, and God would have been causing these men to kill Jesus. I utterly reject your view. You outright said that God can override our will and cause us to fulfill his prophecy. In your view God caused these men to kill Jesus. That is close to blasphemy.
     
    #144 Winman, Mar 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2012
  5. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    God had from eternity ordained that His Son would die upon the Cross for the sins of those whom He wold chose to save!

    Do it WAS God deterned Will that jesus would die, but he used the willful acts of sinners to get tht act accomplished!

    perfect case that God IS Sovereign, but also permits us to make our "own" choices!
     
    #145 DaChaser1, Mar 8, 2012
  6. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    God has indeed already fixed and determined ALL that He gave prophesy over concerning the future...

    He will cause both his own determined acts AND the "free" choices of others in order to have the end events turn out just as He ordained them to come to pass!
     
    #146 DaChaser1, Mar 8, 2012
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