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Are Mormons Biblical Christians?

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
Purgatory, also known as millennial exclusion, is nothing more than another prison set up by man's attempt to control God's sheep through threats.

Jesus said, if the Son sets you FREE you are FREE indeed.

DHK is correct, if you teach such a thing as ME or purgatory you are teaching Jesus' sacrifice was insufficient .

As far as this relating to Mormonism , Mormons also teach the insufficiency of Christ, just as ME and Purgatory does.

Purgatory is not known as Millenial Exclusion. Millenial Exclusion is a modern thought by J. D. Faust who misunderstood the dogma for instance this is what he says:
earn salvation by suffering in a mythological place called purgatory
The dogma does not say we earn salvation in purgatory as I've said before. The person in purgatory is saved. They are being sanctified. Big difference. They are perfecting an inperfect love for God. Its a theory based on a misunderstood doctrine. Its a term being used for what no one actually believes.

The doctrine of Purgatory was in effect long before the reformers much more so JD Faust and Millenial Exclusion.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Purgatory is not known as Millenial Exclusion. Millenial Exclusion is a modern thought by J. D. Faust who misunderstood the dogma for instance this is what he says:
The dogma does not say we earn salvation in purgatory as I've said before. The person in purgatory is saved. They are being sanctified. Big difference. They are perfecting an inperfect love for God. Its a theory based on a misunderstood doctrine. Its a term being used for what no one actually believes.

The doctrine of Purgatory was in effect long before the reformers much more so JD Faust and Millenial Exclusion.

again, either the atonement of jesus on the Cross provided for full forgiveness of all sins to us, or God lied to us!

We are fully and freely justifed before God, declared rightous with the same measure as jesus has, by God immediatly once saved!

God already sees us perfected in Christ right now, already in heaven, its just that we have to be made in this life confirmed into image of His Son, and completed at death!
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
again, either the atonement of jesus on the Cross provided for full forgiveness of all sins to us, or God lied to us!

We are fully and freely justifed before God, declared rightous with the same measure as jesus has, by God immediatly once saved!

God already sees us perfected in Christ right now, already in heaven, its just that we have to be made in this life confirmed into image of His Son, and completed at death!

Just like DHK you confuse two doctrines the doctrine of the attonment and the doctrine of Sanctification. Purgatory speaks to the doctrine of Sanctification not attonment. What does Paul say
12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
and again what does hebrews say?
let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith.
and again what does Jesus say?
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect
Again Paul says
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good
and here is the clincher
So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it
IT is clear sanctification and pleasing God Occurs for the Christian "in the body or away from it". What do you think away from it means? Sanctification continues after we die. The passage is clear.
 

WestminsterMan

New Member
Yet, the Bible speaks of a third place that is neither Heaven nor hell. It’s known variously as Sheol, Hades, the Netherworld, and Paradise.

No it doesn't. The Bible has synonyms for various places. Sheol was simply the place of the departed dead. It actually included Paradise and hell. It is the Hebrew used mostly translated hell, and sometimes translated grave.
Hades is the Greek word translated hell.
There is no netherworld. And as I mentioned the Paradise was part of Sheol which ceased to exist after the cross.

Ok - you say that Sheol “…ceased to exist after the cross”, but lets see what Scripture actually says. Jesus says it clearly: "I hold the keys to death and the netherworld [sheol]" (Revelations 1:18 - sheol in Greek is hades). Jesus is not holding the keys to something that no longer exists, but to something that still exists. Hmmm… this leads to a few questions… if it still exists, what is it for? Are souls still going to sheol after Jesus' resurrection? Further, if so, are any of these souls righteous?

Revelation 20:4 depicts the righteous coming to life during the first resurrection: "the souls of those who had been beheaded...they came to life and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years." Further, scripture says that "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over." These remaining people are said to come from sheol: "then Death and Hades [sheol] gave up the dead in them" (Revelation 20:13). This answers the previous question; there are souls that still go to sheol even after Jesus' resurrection.

You claim that this "hades" or "sheol" of Revelation 20:13 is actually hell itself. Yet, Revelation 20:14 says it thusly: "… Death and Hades were thrown in the lake of fire [Hell]." This conclusively PROVES that sheol is not the same thing as hell for if it were, then Revelation 20:14 would be indicating that Hell was being thrown into Hell; a proposition which makes no sense. You might be tempted to say that absolutely all the souls of this second resurrection from sheol go to Hell. But what does Scripture say about these souls? (Rev 20:15). "If any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire" (Rev 20:15). Further, when Ephesians 4:9 uses the phrase: "…if any one…," what does it mean but that some names were indeed found in the book of life.

Therefore, the souls of those named in the book of life did not go to Hell. These remaining souls were among the saved! It thus holds ipso facto that there is a place, neither heaven nor hell, which does hold some number of righteous souls before entrance into heaven.

“Purgatory!” by BRENT ARIAS

OHHHH YEAHHH!!!!

Paul did not speak of individual's in that passage but an individual's works. No individual passed through any fire. That is not an explanation of Purgatory but it is the Judgement Seat of Christ yet to take place in the future.

10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.“

--There is no hint of Purgatory here. A man's works shall be tried, not the man himself. He will either lose or gain reward according to his works. This passage also speaks of eternal security of the believer or OSAS.

There is only one problem (well, actually more than one, but for the sake of brevity) – the reward(s) that you cite here are not the rewards that you imagine, the reward is heaven or hell!. The scriptures are replete with examples of people being judged to heaven or hell according to their works.

Romans 2:5-8 New International Version (NIV)
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life [heaven]. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger [hell].

Hebrews 12:22-23 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

--I am a just man made perfect right now. How is that?
The day I got saved I was justified in the sight of God or made just.
I was sanctified positionally, and have been "maturing" ever since.

The word perfect means complete or mature. Every Christian is complete in Christ. All we have is in Christ. We are complete in him. Our perfection therefore is in Christ. We need nothing more. That is what it means.

You are contradicting yourself! First, you state that you were sanctified “…and have been ‘maturing’ ever since.” Then you define the word prefect thusly: “The word perfect means complete or mature”. Since one cannot be mature while in the process of maturing, and mature means “perfect”, then by you own statement you therefore cannot be perfect.

But, I’ll let that go for now. OK - So you are now a just man made perfect. But, in order to be in a state of perfection, you must necessarily be without sin. Hmmmm….

1 John 1:8 New International Version
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Oh my...

There is no doctrine of Purgatory. It is a heretical blasphemous doctrine that is an attack on the sufficiency of the blood of Christ.

You are the one proclaiming that the doctrine of Purgatory is “…an attack on the sufficiency of the blood of Christ.” Many here have presented sufficient scriptures in support of that doctrine; you just refuse to accept it. If we wanted to go the history of the Jews and the early Christians we could provide much more proof, yet I doubt you would accept that either. You see, your problem is one of Sola Scriptura and you’ll never be able to accept anything outside of a very legalistic and narrow view of Christianity – a view I might add, that is limited to a small minority of Christians worldwide; a fact of which I am sure you are very proud.

WM
 

Walter

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Just like DHK you confuse two doctrines the doctrine of the attonment and the doctrine of Sanctification. Purgatory speaks to the doctrine of Sanctification not attonment. What does Paul say and again what does hebrews say? and again what does Jesus say? Again Paul says and here is the clincher IT is clear sanctification and pleasing God Occurs for the Christian "in the body or away from it". What do you think away from it means? Sanctification continues after we die. The passage is clear.

DESERVES A RE-POST!!:thumbsup:
 

billwald

New Member
All animals are equal but some are more equal than others

Interesting how this thread has nothing to do with the title and (but) goes to 13 pages.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
DESERVES A RE-POST!!:thumbsup:
Actually it never deserved to be posted in the first place.

It is simple. A belief in purgatory is a denial that Christ died for their sins.
They don't believe in sacrificial atonement of Jesus Christ. Christ died to pay the penalty of our sins. 1John 1:7 clearly says: "The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us (read purges) from ALL sin."

There is a blatant contradiction of that verse by the RCC. Both cannot be true. Either Christ cleansed us from our sins and there is no purgatory;
or,
Purgatory is necessary because Christ failed on the cross and the RCC must complete the work of Christ by their man-made invention of Purgatory.

You can't have it both ways. Purgatory is a blasphemous heretical doctrine that takes away from the work of Christ on the cross. It makes the blood of Christ insufficient to atone for ALL of our sins.
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
Actually it never deserved to be posted in the first place.

It is simple. A belief in purgatory is a denial that Christ died for their sins.
They don't believe in sacrificial atonement of Jesus Christ. Christ died to pay the penalty of our sins. 1John 1:7 clearly says: "The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us (read purges) from ALL sin."

There is a blatant contradiction of that verse by the RCC. Both cannot be true. Either Christ cleansed us from our sins and there is no purgatory;
or,
Purgatory is necessary because Christ failed on the cross and the RCC must complete the work of Christ by their man-made invention of Purgatory.

You can't have it both ways. Purgatory is a blasphemous heretical doctrine that takes away from the work of Christ on the cross. It makes the blood of Christ insufficient to atone for ALL of our sins.
You are claiming a falsehood. Basically, you have lied. I will explain how you have done so. You in your post claims verbatum "They don't believe in sacrificial atonement of Jesus Christ." The Catholic Church certainly believes in the Atonment! The Catholic Church believes that by the spilt blood of Jesus our sins are forgiven. As is clear in the Catachism
Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men
Even though you have been told this you ignore it. Purgatory is not about Atonement. It is about sanctification. This is from the Catachism
All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation
As you can see it is only for the saved the only people going there are saved people. And these are "assured of their eternal salvation". Not a second chance. Not because of their "Unatonned sins". As I said before their sins are forgiven this is about purifying their mind and soul in sanctification. And again the Catachism states
The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned
See the atonment is already taken care of there for its about complete perfect sanctification. And finally the explanation for purgatory is cited here
To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the "eternal punishment" of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory.
The atonment takes care of our eternal destination. The atoned go to heaven. What is being said is that our actual sanctification is still being worked on.

So you lied because though you have been given the actual dogma of purgatory you are attesting things that do not apply to that dogma. Even though you have been given the truth about the dogma. No catholic says Jesus doesn't forgive or take care of your sins. All sins are attoned for. What needs to be cleansed in our unhealthy attachment to the flesh those things that keep us from being perfectly sanctified to God.
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
Except that there is nothing in Scripture that says that we need to go through a time of sanctification in the afterlife.

What does "away from it (the body)" mean? Does that mean you are living on earth? Or have transitioned from this life to the next? That passage is clear. Also ask yourself this why did NT Christians practice the baptism of the dead?
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Ok - you say that Sheol “…ceased to exist after the cross”, but lets see what Scripture actually says. Jesus says it clearly: "I hold the keys to death and the netherworld [sheol]" (Revelations 1:18 - sheol in Greek is hades). Jesus is not holding the keys to something that no longer exists, but to something that still exists.
Yes, hell still exists. No one said it doesn't. Remember the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Now think back to the thief on the cross. Jesus said to the thief: "Today thou shalt be with me in 'paradise.'" Immediately after Jesus died he went down to Paradise (where the OT saints were--Abraham and Lazarus) and led them to what is now heaven.

That is the meaning of this passage:
Ephesians 4:8-9 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
--He descended into the lower parts of the earth. Why?
"He led captivity captive."--a difficult phrase to understand. Those who were in "paradise" were led to heaven, and now there remains only hell where the rich man continues "to be tormented in this flame."

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
--This is hell. It still exists. It is not Purgatory, but hell. And someday it will be cast into the Lake of Fire for all the unsaved:

Revelation 20:13-15 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
--This is not Purgatory. This is the final sentence of all those, who like the rich man, rejected Christ.
Hmmm… this leads to a few questions… if it still exists, what is it for? Are souls still going to sheol after Jesus' resurrection? Further, if so, are any of these souls righteous?
Sheol is a Hebrew word. The only part of sheol that exists is that part reserved for the unsaved. Paradise no longer exists.
Revelation 20:4 depicts the righteous coming to life during the first resurrection: "the souls of those who had been beheaded...they came to life and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years."
This is the first resurrection. It refers to the rapture. It is an event that is yet to come.
Further, scripture says that "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over."
This is the resurrection of the unjust. It will happen after the Millennial Kingdom, just before the Great White Throne judgment, which I previously referred to in Rev.20:13-15
These remaining people are said to come from sheol: "then Death and Hades [sheol] gave up the dead in them" (Revelation 20:13). This answers the previous question; there are souls that still go to sheol even after Jesus' resurrection.
Sheol is a Hebrew word not found in the NT. Hades is Hell where the rich man, already referred to is, as well as all others who have rejected Christ. All unsaved who die right now will go to Hell (or the Greek word Hades).
You claim that this "hades" or "sheol" of Revelation 20:13 is actually hell itself. Yet, Revelation 20:14 says it thusly: "… Death and Hades were thrown in the lake of fire [Hell]." This conclusively PROVES that sheol is not the same thing as hell for if it were, then Revelation 20:14 would be indicating that Hell was being thrown into Hell;
It doesn't say that. It says:
"Death and hell will be thrown into the Lake of Fire."
Have you ever sat beside a fire place, and thrown a burning match into an already burning fire? One burning fire is thrown into another burning fire. The Lake of Fire is far more extensive and larger than what is termed as Hell. Hell is thrown into the Lake of Fire. Though more realistically it could refer to those that were in Hell were resurrected and stand before God, and then are thrown into the Lake of Fire. Either interpretation is acceptable. The outcome is the same.
a proposition which makes no sense. You might be tempted to say that absolutely all the souls of this second resurrection from sheol go to Hell. But what does Scripture say about these souls? (Rev 20:15). "If any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire" (Rev 20:15).
That is what it says. All the unsaved, all the Christ-rejecters, from wherever they come, will be thrown into the Lake of Fire at that point in time. No unsaved person has their name written in the book of life.
Further, when Ephesians 4:9 uses the phrase: "…if any one…," what does it mean but that some names were indeed found in the book of life.
I know my name is written in the book of life. I know that because I am saved, that my sins are forgiven, cleansed (purged), that I am part of God's family, and that I will never face the wrath of God. My name is already there. (Eph.4:9 makes no such reference)
Therefore, the souls of those named in the book of life did not go to Hell. These remaining souls were among the saved! It thus holds ipso facto that there is a place, neither heaven nor hell, which does hold some number of righteous souls before entrance into heaven.
It is simple. The saved have their names written in the book of life; the unsaved do not. The unsaved are thrown into the Lake of Fire. What is so hard to understand about that?
“Purgatory!” by BRENT ARIAS

OHHHH YEAHHH!!!!
What Purgatory? There is no mention of Purgatory anywhere but in your imagination.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
There is only one problem (well, actually more than one, but for the sake of brevity) – the reward(s) that you cite here are not the rewards that you imagine, the reward is heaven or hell!. The scriptures are replete with examples of people being judged to heaven or hell according to their works.
Not in 1Cor.3:11-15! There is no mention of a reward of eternal life in that passage. You can't read into that passage just any old thing you want to. Sorry. You lose. It teaches what it teaches--loss of reward and gain of reward: that is what we as Christians do on this earth for Christ. That is plainly taught in Scripture.
Romans 2:5-8 New International Version (NIV)
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life [heaven]. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger [hell].
You are adding to the Word of God. Anger is not hell. Why do you make anger, hell? The passage is speaking of judgment.
You are contradicting yourself! First, you state that you were sanctified “…and have been ‘maturing’ ever since.” Then you define the word prefect thusly: “The word perfect means complete or mature”. Since one cannot be mature while in the process of maturing, and mature means “perfect”, then by you own statement you therefore cannot be perfect.
There is perfection that is positional. That is our standing in Christ.
There is perfection that is practical. That is our sanctification, a daily maturing in Christ. It is the positional perfection that is important in the eyes of Christ.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
--I will never be condemned eternally for my sins.
On a practical, daily basis I go to the Lord daily. That doesn't affect my standing with the Lord. It only affects my daily fellowship with him. In an earthly illustration it is like this. My son will always be my son, no matter what. When he sins, the fellowship is broken until things are patched up, or things are made up. But I don't kick him out of my family because he has done something wrong. The same it is with God. I am forever his child.
But, I’ll let that go for now. OK - So you are now a just man made perfect. But, in order to be in a state of perfection, you must necessarily be without sin. Hmmmm….
True, that is because all my sins have been forgiven from the day I trusted Christ.
1 John 1:8 New International Version
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
Oh my...
But I don't claim that. My position with Christ is perfect. My sins are all forgiven. If I sin, he has already forgiven it as far as my salvation is concerned. If I sin, I must go and confess it to restore fellowship, just as a child restores fellowship with his earthly father.
You are the one proclaiming that the doctrine of Purgatory is “…an attack on the sufficiency of the blood of Christ.”
And so it is.
Many here have presented sufficient scriptures in support of that doctrine; you just refuse to accept it. If we wanted to go the history of the Jews and the early Christians we could provide much more proof, yet I doubt you would accept that either. You see, your problem is one of Sola Scriptura and you’ll never be able to accept anything outside of a very legalistic and narrow view of Christianity – a view I might add, that is limited to a small minority of Christians worldwide; a fact of which I am sure you are very proud.
WM
I go to the Bible, not man-made tradition to defend my beliefs. If you want to hang your eternal destination on the words, imaginations, and philosophy on some vain man, then I pity you. But I trust in what God has said. There is no proof in what some man's imagination has said. There is only proof in the inspired Scriptures said, and therein do I rest my case.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Just like DHK you confuse two doctrines the doctrine of the attonment and the doctrine of Sanctification. Purgatory speaks to the doctrine of Sanctification not attonment. What does Paul say and again what does hebrews say? and again what does Jesus say? Again Paul says and here is the clincher IT is clear sanctification and pleasing God Occurs for the Christian "in the body or away from it". What do you think away from it means? Sanctification continues after we die. The passage is clear.

justification is done by God thru Cross of Christ, we are declared as being saints right now, and growing more into image of jesus, to be walking more in the light daily...

it is progressive, lifelong, completed at death...

You confuse justification and being sauntified, as you hold must get right enough to than be declared right by God!
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
justification is done by God thru Cross of Christ, we are declared as being saints right now, and growing more into image of jesus, to be walking more in the light daily...

it is progressive, lifelong, completed at death...

You confuse justification and being sauntified, as you hold must get right enough to than be declared right by God!

Not at all. I agree with you as does the RCC that Justificatoin is done by God thru the Cross of Christ. Here is an excerpt from the CCC
Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men
No one disputes that claim. Justification is a part of the work of atonement! No one goes to purgatory needing to be justified. That is already accomplished. What is at issue is Sanctification. Therefore you are confusing atonement with sanctification.
Are you completely sanctified? Have you erradicated all bad things from your life including thoughts? We are called to holiness and that is the issue for purgatory.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Are you completely sanctified? Have you erradicated all bad things from your life including thoughts? We are called to holiness and that is the issue for purgatory.
Positionally we were sanctified completely at the time one trusted Jesus Christ as Savior. Practically we are sanctified on a day by day basis in our walk with Christ. We never lose our salvation. We are born into God's family and cannot be unborn.
Even as a child is born into a family, if he sins against his father he loses some degree of fellowship until things are made right, but he doesn't get kicked out of the family. So it is with God.

There is no intermediate place between heaven and hell that the Bible speaks of. That is a figment of man's imagination. Not one scripture in the Bible speaks to such a place. It demeans the work of Christ saying that the blood of Christ was not sufficient enough to cleanse or purge us from all our sins. And that includes justification and sanctification. For the Bible specifically says: The blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. 1John 1:7
 

Moriah

New Member
DHK,

The reward is an inheritance.


Colossians 3:14 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.

Is not the reward the inheritance of eternal life?

Hebrews 9:15
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

In case you still are not sure the inheritance is eternal life, which is our reward, please consider these scriptures, there should be no more doubt after reading them.

Matthew 19:29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Luke 10:25[ The Parable of the Good Samaritan ] On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

The REWARD is an INHERITANCE, and the INHERITANCE is ETERNAL LIFE.

DHK,

Did you miss what I posted?

The REWARD is an INHERITANCE , and the INHERITANCE is ETERNAL LIFE.
 
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annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What does "away from it (the body)" mean? Does that mean you are living on earth? Or have transitioned from this life to the next? That passage is clear. Also ask yourself this why did NT Christians practice the baptism of the dead?

Well, it really helps to read what the Scriptures actually say:

" Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 For we live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

Hmm - says something very different from what you are saying, isn't it? Yes, we will still be seeking to please the Lord even when we are perfect.
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Are you completely sanctified? Have you erradicated all bad things from your life including thoughts? We are called to holiness and that is the issue for purgatory.

Show me in Scripture where it says that sanctification is our own work.
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
Show me in Scripture where it says that sanctification is our own work.

First of all purgatory is not our own work, its a function of God's presense and he's an all consuming fire. I have showed you where we are called to work to be holy. I will show you again because scriptures are clear. Lets start with Jesus own statement Matt 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect
Lets look as what paul says Phil 3:12
Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
and lets look at Hebrews 12:1
1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,
and again vs. 14
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord
Look at what Peter says in 1 Pet 2:1
Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind
Again Paul in Thessalonians
1 As for other matters, brothers and sisters, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more
Again in verse 3
It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality
and in verse 4
that each of you should learn to control your own body[a] in a way that is holy and honorable,
and vs 5
For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 8 Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit.
and how about Romans 12?
Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship.

There are many verses besides these though I will agree with you that you can't do this without the Grace granted to you by God but these are things that we do strive for as Paul says
Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ
and also
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Not at all. I agree with you as does the RCC that Justificatoin is done by God thru the Cross of Christ. Here is an excerpt from the CCC No one disputes that claim. Justification is a part of the work of atonement! No one goes to purgatory needing to be justified. That is already accomplished. What is at issue is Sanctification. Therefore you are confusing atonement with sanctification.
Are you completely sanctified? Have you erradicated all bad things from your life including thoughts? We are called to holiness and that is the issue for purgatory.

God sees me in jesus, he sees the perfection of Christ applied to my behalf, and the father views me in Christ, so to Him in the process of becoming more like jesus, and will be fully as jesus now is once glorified!

My behaviour while here determines rewards, or lack of. but NO need to purify myself in order to go to heaven, as theblood cleanses me from ALL sins past/present/future!
 
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