Semi-Pelagianism

[Moriah]

Moriah, your positions are holding water fine. :thumbs:

WOO HOO! Thank you, Brother!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK, that is a most despicable way to debate a fellow believer, by associating/illustrating your point with one with a cult or completely false religion.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Biblicist...

You said...

Is it possible to obey the last aspect of the Great Commission outside of church membership?...

"Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded.

Of course it is. Absolutly

QUESTIONS:

1. Isn't the Lord's Supper part of this command? Isn't this to be observed in one place by the assembly when it comes together - see 1 Cor. 11:20

Usually.

But the Lords supper could occur anywhere. "Where 2 or more are gathered in My name, I am in the midst....Out in a field, in a garden, etc etc..

And I have have had the Lords supper by my self here at home. There were 2 people here, me and Jesus. (He is alive in me)

20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper.

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God,

33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

No problem with any of that.

2. Wasn't habitual assembling what Jesus observed - Acts 1:21-22?

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

No problem with that.

3. Doesn't the very nature of this command require at least a teacher and a student habitually assemble?

No. not at all.

4. Does the New Testament ever regard any individual believer outside of a local congregation as the NORM?

Our God does NOT regard and love and take care of and treasure just GROUPS of people, but also EVERY..SINGLE..SOLITARY..person. Just as He knows when every single sparrow hits the ground, He..much MORE.. knows, intimatly, every single individual person who lives.

5. What epistles were ever written to an isolated believer outside a N.T. congregation?

So, if I..right now, want to feed on Gods scriptures, I have to invite 20 or 30 of my Christian brothers and sisters so that God will bless??

Gods scriptures are for all groups, and also every single individual.

6. Isn't it the REVEALED WILL of God that you forsake not the assemblying together?

Of course. God desirers for us to gather regularly.

Heb. 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Great scripture.

7. Can you find any PRECEPT or approved EXAMPLE to forsake the public assembly???

I have already acknowleged that wants us to gather with other believers.

8. Which part of this verse fits your belief and practice?

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

All of it. Its a great blessing to gather together with my brothers and sisters in Christ.

9. As the Lord's coming draws nearer should public assemblying be increased or decreased?

I have always agreed that God wants us to gather together together with our spiritual brothers and sisters.

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

I have always agreed.
__________________
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. - Isa. 8:20

Isa 48:8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.

 

[DHK]

That is an illogical assumption.

No, it is not an illogical assumption. The Bible teaches that it is a sin "to forsake the gathering of ourselves together, and so much the more as we see the day approaching."
--That is what we do when we regularly attend church services.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say I have to go to a denomination and gather with the people there.

Nowhere did I say you had to. If you look at my profile you would see that I go to an IFB church. We are not affiliated with any denominations. If you are familiar with my posts you would know that I am strongly against denominational churches. However all of Paul's epistles were either written to NT churches or pastors of NT churches. God's blessing today is on the local church. That is his instrument of blessing and the organization in which he is using today. Not to be a member of a Biblical local church is sin; just as much a sin as it is not to be baptized.

Who is the hypocrite? Do you not tell Catholics that they are in a false church? Have you not told Heavenly Pilgrim and me that we were in falseness?

Of course! I point out RCC error to the RCC; and I point out the error of Pelagius to a Pelagian. Does that make sense to you? That is being consistent, not hypocritical. It is no excuse not for you to be a member of a Biblical local church.

The denominations we have do not correct themselves when they find that they are in error, they will hold onto their falseness forever. Why should you not go to your denomination’s place of gathering if you are happy with it?

Whoever suggested going to a church that holds to false doctrine? Why are you suggesting this and laying a false accusation where none was laid??? This is not ethical.

However, it is not a sin not to join a denomination.

I do not belong to a denomination.

According to your beliefs about it being normal for Christians to sin every day would probably require all the churchgoers to stay away from each other anyway.

Have you reached perfect entire sanctification? Do you sin, ever?
Or are you at the place where 1John 1:8:10 applies to you where you are calling Christ a liar and the truth is not in you? If you have reached that place then:
You have embraced heresy.

If you haven't reached that place then:
You know that it is normal for you to sin, and thus you must confess in accordance with 1John 1:0

You only have those two choices.

 

[DHK]

DHK, that is a most despicable way to debate a fellow believer, by associating/illustrating your point with one with a cult or completely false religion.

What? Pelagianism? Even the Catholic Church ousted Pelagius as a heretic!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

(original post deleted by Author.)

I appreciate for the most part the manner DHK has stood up against the Roman Catholic system as a whole. Forgive me DHK.

 

[DHK]

You fight against God’s Word when you say what you did. Did the Muslim come to Jesus and believe what Jesus said? Did the Muslim give up his Islamic teachings and believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Muslims believe in the Islamic religion do NOT believe Jesus is the Son of God.

All Muslims believe some of the things that Jesus said. Jesus is one of their prophets. They hold him in high esteem. It is to their credit that some years ago when a blasphemous film was made about Jesus Christ that the Muslims were the ones that vocally protested about the showing of this film, and not so much the Christians.

 

[DHK]

So you are one with the Catholic Church? What does that prove. Hmmm.

Did I say that. It is a sin, grievous in the sight of God to deceitfully put words in another's mouth. You should be ashamed.

Have you ever read the Apostle's Creed?
How much of it do you agree with?

 

[Moriah]

All Muslims believe some of the things that Jesus said. Jesus is one of their prophets. They hold him in high esteem. It is to their credit that some years ago when a blasphemous film was made about Jesus Christ that the Muslims were the ones that vocally protested about the showing of this film, and not so much the Christians.

What in the world is your point? They deny that Jesus is the Son of God. Case closed.

 

[DHK]

What in the world is your point? They deny that Jesus is the Son of God. Case closed.

The case isn't closed.
What you believe is totally unbiblically, if you would only listen to yourself.
You keep saying that an unsaved person can obey Jesus. That is not true. The Muslims, to some extent, obey Jesus. That doesn't make them saved. Their obedience to God is nothing more than filthy rags. God doesn't look upon that obedience. It is an abomination in his sight. Even if it is an outward obedience it is still wrong in God's sight. It is still as filthy rags. They cannot obey God in their unsaved state.

 

[Moriah]

(original post deleted by Author.)

I appreciate for the most part the manner DHK has stood up against the Roman Catholic system as a whole. Forgive me DHK.

You said nothing wrong to DHK. He needs to ask you for forgiveness.

DHK is trying to confuse the reader with arguments that sound in favor of the Catholic Church. What he is saying is illogical; it makes no sense and comes off as favoring the Catholics.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Moriah, it is perplexing to me how one can refute Catholicism on one hand yet buy into such a notion as was clearly developed by Augustine (total moral deprvity from birth), but I know that for the most part, DHK has stood against many of the errors of the Catholic Church. For that I give him credit.

 

[Moriah]

The case isn't closed.
What you believe is totally unbiblically, if you would only listen to yourself.

What you say is totally unbiblical.

You keep saying that an unsaved person can obey Jesus. That is not true. The Muslims, to some extent, obey Jesus.

How do you call it obeying Jesus if you do not even believe Jesus is the Son of God? Now stop it with your slander against me and your illogical thinking and debate tactics.

That doesn't make them saved. Their obedience to God is nothing more than filthy rags. God doesn't look upon that obedience. It is an abomination in his sight. Even if it is an outward obedience it is still wrong in God's sight. It is still as filthy rags. They cannot obey God in their unsaved state.

You tried this tangled type of speech in other threads with me, it is old now, and you will not get away with it with me.
A person can please God when they get Jesus’ teachings, believe, and obey. That is not as a filthy rag.

 

[Moriah]

Moriah, it is perplexing to me how one can refute Catholicism on one hand yet buy into such a notion as was clearly developed by Augustine (total moral deprvity from birth), but I know that for the most part, DHK has stood against many of the errors of the Catholic Church. For that I give him credit.

Sorry but, going against the Catholics is not good enough.

 

[DHK]

A person can please God when they get Jesus’ teachings, believe, and obey. That is not as a filthy rag.

The only way that an unsaved person can obey the teachings of Jesus is, if the Holy Spirit first opens their eyes to the truth of the gospel. That is the only way.
Otherwise all the obedience in the world is as filthy rags in God's sight.

Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees you can in no wise enter into the kingdom of God.

All our righteounsesses are as filthy rags...

 

[Moriah]

What? Pelagianism? Even the Catholic Church ousted Pelagius as a heretic!
[/SIZE]

Heavenly Pilgrim,

DHK is siding with the Catholics for going against your beliefs.

 

[DHK]

Heavenly Pilgrim,

DHK is siding with the Catholics for going against your beliefs.

I side with the truth, not the RCC.
The Catholics believe in the trinity; do you?

 

[Moriah]

The only way that an unsaved person can obey the teachings of Jesus is, if the Holy Spirit first opens their eyes to the truth of the gospel. That is the only way.

That is not true. God opens the eyes of people who believe in Jesus and who repent.

Otherwise all the obedience in the world is as filthy rags in God's sight.

It is not a filthy rag to get Jesus’ teachings and obey them, that is the way to be saved.

Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees you can in no wise enter into the kingdom of God.

Do you know what that scripture means? It does not support your effort to go against what I say. I will tell you what it means. Matthew 5:20 is about not only are we not to murder, as the Pharisees and teachers of the law obeyed, but also our righteousness has to exceed theirs by us not even hating our brother!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: All our righteounsesses are as filthy rags...

HP: That is a most abused passage in which you are not even considering actual context/sound application. God has and will reward men for their righteousness. That's no filthy rags in God's eyes.:thumbs:

 

[Moriah]

HP: That is a most abused passage in which you are not even considering actual context/sound application. God has and will reward men for their righteousness. That's no filthy rags in God's eyes.:thumbs:

HP,
DHK uses that scripture he does not understand. The scripture about filthy rags were to the Jews who kept sinning. It would not go for people seeking God through Jesus. Now, it could go for Christians who do what DHK says is normal to do, and that is believing in Jesus yet sin all day every day.