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Featured Cannot believe?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Winman, Apr 1, 2012.

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  1. Forest

    Forest New Member

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    Believing is the result of having everlasting life, not the cause of everlasting life. Matt 10:6, Jesus told his apostles to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Israel being his elect) Jacob is Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel,Gen 32:28. If they are his sheep, they are eternally saved, but are lost from a fellowship with God, in that they are believing in false doctrines, such as eternal salvation by their own righteousness. The preaching of Christ's doctrine is not to eternally save anyone, but to deliver God's sheep from false doctrines that have caused them to be seperated from fellowship with God, not their eternal salvation. All of God's sheep were eternally saved by Christ upon the cross.John 6:37-41. Matt 11:25, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. There are many more of God's children that do not understand the doctrine of Christ, than there are who do understand the doctrine of Christ.(Gal 4:27,The desolate[lost sheep] hath many more children than she which hath an husband[bride of Christ]. Does not mean they are not saved eternally, just God's sheep that are lost from his fellowship.
     
    #41 Forest, Apr 5, 2012
  2. Forest

    Forest New Member

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    Rom 8:1 is not refering to the unregenerate but to depraved children of God. You will never understand the grace of God until you understand the depravity of man.
     
    #42 Forest, Apr 5, 2012
  3. Forest

    Forest New Member

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    There are many more of the unbelieving elect of God than there are of the elect that do believe. The believing and the unbelieving are both saved eternally. Believing is not the cause of our eternal life, but is a product of it to those who have had the truth revealed to them by the Holy Spirit.
     
    #43 Forest, Apr 5, 2012
  4. Forest

    Forest New Member

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    Only God's sheep can hear his voice, not the natural man.
     
    #44 Forest, Apr 5, 2012
  5. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    John 1:
    11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

    Matthew 10:33
    But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

    Luke 12:9
    But whoever disowns me before others will be disowned before the angels of God.

    Psalm 69:28
    May they be blotted out of the book of life
    and not be listed with the righteous.

    Revelation 3:5
    The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

    Luke 10:21
    At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

    His sheep is a Hyperbole. People are not sheep they are people, to me it is talking about their attitude towards Jesus. If you want to use a hyperbole as people then I wouldn't be His sheep, but a dog who begged at His table who He included with His Sheep when I heard the Gospel of my salvation having believed.
     
    #45 psalms109:31, Apr 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2012
  6. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    There will be no people saved that don't believe. To say one can be in Christ and be in heaven and never believe goes totally against the teachings of Scripture.
     
    #46 jbh28, Apr 6, 2012
  7. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    So many of your posts are breaths of fresh air. This "gem" is no different!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
    #47 convicted1, Apr 6, 2012
  8. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    AMEN!!! Preach it Brother!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
    #48 convicted1, Apr 6, 2012
  9. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Your false doctrine of Total Inability is immediately refuted in scripture.

    Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
    7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
    8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
    9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
    10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
    11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
    12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
    13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
    14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
    15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
    16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
    17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
    18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
    19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
    20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
    21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

    Adam and Eve sinned, and now they were spiritually dead in sin. But they could hear God when he called them and responded positively to God and came to him when he called.

    So, your false doctrine of Total Inability is the very FIRST thing refuted in scripture. Never do the scriptures teach that an unregenerated sinner is UNABLE to respond to God when he calls them, in fact, the scriptures show the exact opposite of what you teach.

    And the coats that God made for Adam and Eve represent the righteousness imputed to those who believe God, so this proves not only that the unregenerate can hear and respond to God positively, but they can believe and be saved.

    Total Inability is false and immediately refuted in the scriptures.
     
    #49 Winman, Apr 6, 2012
  10. Forest

    Forest New Member

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    John 10:15, And I lay down my life for the sheep. Did Christ die for a bunch of wolly sheep? Or did Christ die for people? So, you do see that God refers to his people as sheep. Only his sheep (his people) hear his voice. John 10:28, Does God give eternal life to a bunch of sheep, or does he give eternal life to his people? God's people and his sheep are interchangeable.
     
    #50 Forest, Apr 7, 2012
  11. Forest

    Forest New Member

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    2 Tim 2:13, If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful; he cannot deny himself.
     
    #51 Forest, Apr 7, 2012
  12. Forest

    Forest New Member

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    The natural man will not seek to serve a spiritual God, 1 Cor 2:14. They do not hear his voice because they are not of his sheep, John 10.
     
    #52 Forest, Apr 7, 2012
  13. Forest

    Forest New Member

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    In Gen 3:10 God had not pronounced judgement upon Adam yet.
     
    #53 Forest, Apr 7, 2012
  14. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    John 6:
    45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[Isaiah 54:13] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

    John 6:
    53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

    John 6:
    63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

    John 14:24
    Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

    Matthew 11:29
    Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

    Luke 10:21
    At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

    Proverbs 3 :
    5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
    and lean not on your own understanding;
    6 in all your ways submit to him,
    and he will make your paths straight.[Or will direct your paths]

    7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
    fear the LORD and shun evil.

    1 Peter 1:23
    For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

    We are all dead without Christ, all men have sinned and all men are dead and sheep is just a hyperbole telling of their attitude toward Jesus they are not born sheep, people are people.

    God has hidden the truth from the wise and learned those who depend on their own understanding, ever hearing never understanding because it isn't God who isn't willing but them.

    Luke 13:34
    “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

    Those who listen and learn who trust in the Lord not in their own understanding those are the ones who will come, those are the ones who the Father has given to Jesus. He will lead them they are His sheep.
     
    #54 psalms109:31, Apr 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2012
  15. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Amen, Brother, amen!! Errr, I am a sheep, so "Baa, Brother, baa"....:laugh:


    Very good "breath of fresh air" post again!! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
    #55 convicted1, Apr 7, 2012
  16. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Well, Adam was spiritually dead, yet when God spoke, he heard.

    The rich man in hell was/is spiritually dead, and yet he communed with Abraham.

    Spiritually dead people can hear God when He speaks. Spiritual death means seperation from God, not a lifeless soul/inner man. If the soul/inner man is dead like a corpse, then the whole man is dead. When God creates the soul, it will never die. Sure, when we die, the soul/inner man leaves the body, and the body dies. But the soul will go either up or down and continue to exist. It will never die, even if it's cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
     
    #56 convicted1, Apr 7, 2012
  17. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    :thumbs: You're on a roll Willis!

    It amazes me how one can conclude a man is born like a corpse in regard to a positive response, but yet has the ability to rebel and reject God's powerful gospel truth with all the life in the world. :confused:
     
    #57 Skandelon, Apr 7, 2012
  18. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    Way to take a verse way out of context. Your interpretation cannot be correct. It's not speaking about people that have never had faith but will be saved anyway. That view is completely false.

    Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
    (John 3:18 ESV)
     
    #58 jbh28, Apr 7, 2012
  19. Forest

    Forest New Member

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    1 Cor 3:15, If any man's work does not abide the fire (unbelief) he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire. If there is anything that you do not believe, do you conclude that it is taken out of context? Are you sure that the condemnation in John 3:18 is condemned to everlasting punishment, or maybe it is condemned from a fellowship with God and not condemned from heaven.
     
    #59 Forest, Apr 10, 2012
  20. Forest

    Forest New Member

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    They are not his sheep because they hear, they hear because they are his sheep.
     
    #60 Forest, Apr 11, 2012
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