If one is to believe in your beliefs, Biblicist, then one would have to say that unsaved people never do anything right ever. You would have to believe that no atheist or anyone other than a Christian ever did anything right ever.
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Christ's Blood Sanctifies !
- Thread starter savedbymercy
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If one is to believe in your beliefs, Biblicist, then one would have to say that unsaved people never do anything right ever. You would have to believe that no atheist or anyone other than a Christian ever did anything right ever.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
DHK,was the healing of those under Moses, as the serpent was raised on the pole, conditional or not? Was God and Moses trying to teach the principles of Hinduism as you suggest all are that teach Scriptural conditional salvation, by making their healing conditional upon the 'act of the will', the 'work' if you may, of performing the voluntary act of looking or perish?
It was an OT picture of Christ on the cross.
Unless we look to him in faith we cannot be saved.
The same held true for those Israelites. They had to look to the serpents in faith. Faith was the requirement, not works.
Jesus said:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
The object of one's faith must be Christ, otherwise there is no salvation. But the faith itself is not a work.
If it is a work, then your religion is no different than that of Hinduism and Islam.
"For WE are HIS WORKmanship CREATED in Christ Jesus UNTO good works..."
If you can read and understand English, then it should be obvious to you and every reader on this forum that "good works" as Paul defines them, (not as you define them) had their origin in God workmanship first as the cause.
One must FIRST be created in Christ Jesus before any "good works" occur according to this clear and explicit statement by Paul.
I didn't write this, I am just reading it and accepting it as it is written. You are the one that must EXPLAIN IT AWAY from what it clearly and unmistakenly says.
Biblicist,
You say that we cannot believe in Jesus until after we are saved. You say that we cannot do anything that God asks us to do until after we are saved. That is a ridiculous belief. For even the wicked love those who love them. For even the wicked lend to those who will pay them back.
I said no such thing and I have NEVER said such a thing. What don't you get about the word "WHEN"???? Does the word "when" mean "before" or "after" in your dictionary???????
I have repeatedly said over and over and over again that faith occurs WHEN you are saved. It does not occur BEFORE you are saved or AFTER you are saved but WHEN you are saved.
I have explained the word "saved" to you on the other thread in minute detail what don't you understand about my explanation? Go look at the other thread where I explain the term "saved" as used by Paul in Ephesians 2:8-10 in relationship to both faith and good works.
What do you not understand? The Bible teaches that we are to believe first, and then we are saved. YOU however teach that we CANNOT believe in Jesus until WHEN we are saved. You say, " believing is not AFTER we are saved, but WHEN we are saved;" however, that makes no difference whatsoever, it is just a bunch of nonsense for you to gripe about to camouflage your error.
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What is the difference in saying WHEN verses AFTER if you believe that believing cannot be before? The issue is in BEFORE. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG OR MISLEADING IN SAYING THAT YOU DO NOT BELIEVE WE CAN BELIEVE IN JESUS UNTIL AFTER WE ARE SAVED.
You teach falseness when you say a person cannot believe in Jesus until WHEN they are saved. It is false teaching. Now, you explain the big difference in my saying after instead of when. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.
You teach falseness when you say a person cannot believe in Jesus until WHEN they are saved. It is false teaching. Now, you explain the big difference in my saying after instead of when. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.
savedbymercy
New Member
hp
Then you do not believe that Christ's Death alone saves those He died for, neither Justified them, but only when man performs the act of believing, which is a work, so even though you deny it with your mouth, you believe, that believing is an meritorious act of man that gets him saved. I do not care how much you deny and say you do not believe it, because you do, salvation by works !
Then you do not believe that Christ's Death alone saves those He died for, neither Justified them, but only when man performs the act of believing, which is a work, so even though you deny it with your mouth, you believe, that believing is an meritorious act of man that gets him saved. I do not care how much you deny and say you do not believe it, because you do, salvation by works !
savedbymercy
New Member
Works Salvation !
The works we are not to do are circumcision, various ceremonial washings, the observance of special days, sin and gift offerings, animal sacrifices. Those things we do not have to do anymore. Nowhere does the Bible say we no longer have to stop sinning!
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Coming from you, and any other supporting a sinning religion, I will wear that as a badge of honor.:thumbs:
As it has been said, what one man calls works is another's obedience.
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Resultant conclusion:
Moriah is without sin, just like Jesus. Correct?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
HP: Now there is a good Scriptural example, showing not only the clear possibility for any and all of us taking the name of Christ to cease from sin with the help God proffers, but that some have ceased from sin. I for one have a desire to be such a one that it could be said of by God, he hath ceased from sin. Think about it! Would or should one that claims to love God desire any less?
HP: Now there is a good Scriptural example, showing not only the clear possibility for any and all of us taking the name of Christ to cease from sin with the help God proffers, but that some have ceased from sin. I for one have a desire to be such a one that it could be said of by God, he hath ceased from sin. Think about it! Would or should one that claims to love God desire any less?
Desire and reality are two different things.
Desire is a good thing. The desire for holiness ought to be a desire in all of us.
But the claim of sinlessness is sin, in and of itself.
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: What do you see as the distinction between holiness and sinlessness, if there is any?
Yes, holiness is a process of sanctification, a goal that can never be perfectly reached until we get to heaven. But it is a process that every believer undergoes while we live on this earth. We grow in Christ.
To claim sinlessness is heresy. We sin everyday. To say that we don't, according to 1John 1:8,10, is grave error. You deny Christ.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Where do you come up with that as a definition of holiness?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Here is yet another reason why it is impossible to debate some on this list. If they do not like a particular definition of a word or words. they just manufacture a definition to their own liking. I have certainly met more than one in my lifetime that twist the meaning of Scriptural words and phrases. They often throw around the words as if though they believe in them, all the while in their own minds having twisted the definitions or the words to suit their own desired meanings.
I have not came upon the least shred of Scriptural or reasonable evidence to support the notion that holiness is a process that we are engaged upon in this life, but never reach until death becomes ones sanctifier. If there is evidence of any such meaning of the word, produce the evidence. 1John 1:8 and 10 have absolutely nothing to do with answering the question as to what is holiness, or sanctification for that matter.
I have not came upon the least shred of Scriptural or reasonable evidence to support the notion that holiness is a process that we are engaged upon in this life, but never reach until death becomes ones sanctifier. If there is evidence of any such meaning of the word, produce the evidence. 1John 1:8 and 10 have absolutely nothing to do with answering the question as to what is holiness, or sanctification for that matter.
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