Is Baptism the New Circumcision?

[DHK]

No, The Word of God was not playing with words.

Don't put words in my mouth; that is not what I said.
What I said is: "Jesus was making a play on words." That is something entirely different than what you said. What you said, if you read it again, is a misrepresentation of what I said, another lie, (a way of life with you). What does the Bible say about that Moriah?

The passage was a rebuke to the people asking him the question: "What must I do"
The only work that they could DO was to believe. Faith alone can save.

 

[Moriah]

Don't put words in my mouth; that is not what I said.
What I said is: "Jesus was making a play on words." That is something entirely different than what you said. What you said, if you read it again, is a misrepresentation of what I said, another lie, (a way of life with you). What does the Bible say about that Moriah?

The passage was a rebuke to the people asking him the question: "What must I do"
The only work that they could DO was to believe. Faith alone can save.

You falsely accuse me and describe yourself exactly.

So you don't keep the law. You are free from the law. Thus is okay, according to your theology, to go out and murder and commit adultery because you are free from the law. I really don't want your kind of Christianity.

 

[The Biblicist]

1 Timothy 1:9-10 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine

So you believe that OBEDIENCE to the law is not a "good" work but an "evil" work? There are only two options on the day of judgement when God judges us "according to" our works. There is only DISOBEDIENCE or OBEDIENCE to the law and you believe disobedience must fall under "evil" works as the only other alternative is "good" works on the day of judgement?

Neither does your attempt to run from the question by quoting 1 Timothy 1:9-10 help you either simply because there are no Christians that do not sin (1 Jn. 1:8-10) and "sin" by Biblical definition is DISOBEDIENCE to the Law (1 Jn.4:6) and so we come back to the very same question. Is disobedience to the law a "good" work or an "evil" work? Is OBEDIENCE to the law an "evil" work or a "good" work?

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[Moriah]

So you believe that OBEDIENCE to the law is not a "good" work but an "evil" work?

Since you have no understanding, there is no point in discussing it with you any further. I have explained it to you patiently, but you continue to malign what I say.

 

[DHK]

You falsely accuse me and describe yourself exactly.

Do I falsely accuse you?
Here is what I said:

Jesus was making a play on words.
The people asked him: "What must we do, to do the work of God.
Jesus answered: This is the Word of God: to believe on him who has sent me.
IOW, There are no works that they could do to merit eternal life. The only thing that they could do is to believe. It is not a work, but it is faith. All other "works" fail. Faith alone saves. It was a play on words. They could not work their way to heaven, which is what Jesus was teaching.

Now here is what you said:

No, The Word of God was not playing with words.

I do not play games, nor do I take the Word of God lightly Moriah.
You lied. You misquoted me. I never said "The Word of God was not playing with words."
Why did you lie about what I said? Why did you misrepresent me? Is this a way of life with you? You do it almost every day, if not every day. It is shameful conduct on your part to lie and misrepresent others as you do.

 

[The Biblicist]

Since you have no understanding, there is no point in discussing it with you any further. I have explained it to you patiently, but you continue to malign what I say.

Why not stop lying and tell the truth for once? You WILL NOT answer the questions and they are very very simple and obvious questions with obvious answers.

What is obedience to the first nine of theTen Commandments that tell you "NOT" to do something? You claim that such OBEDIENCE is not a "good work" but DISOBEDIENCE is an "evil work"? Hence, you are making the foolish conclusion that to OBEY the ten commandments is not a "good" work but DISOBEDIENCE is an "evil" work because on judgement day there are only TWO ALTERNATIVES "good" or "evil" and you know that DISOBEDIENCE is "evil" so what does that make OBEDIENCE Moriah?

You refuse to answer even though the answer is obvious to anyone who has any common sense at all! Why? Because if you answer that question your whole view of salvation by works is completely exposed as false doctrine and "another gospel". That is why you WILL NOT answer such a simple question when there is only TWO POSSIBLE ANSWERS - disobedience is an evil work and OBEDIENCE is a good work. Little Sunday school children understand this and so do you but your false doctrine forces you to willfuly sin against the obvious truth. Shame on you Moriah, Shame on you!


You are providing absolute prove that you hate God and hate his Word because you take sides with the spirit of ERROR which comes from Satan.

 

[Moriah]

Just read what DHK and Biblicist say to me.

So you believe that OBEDIENCE to the law is not a "good" work but an "evil" work?

So you don't keep the law. You are free from the law. Thus is okay, according to your theology, to go out and murder and commit adultery because you are free from the law. I really don't want your kind of Christianity.

I would laugh except it is a serious condition of their mind and heart.

 

[DHK]

Just read what DHK and Biblicist say to me.

I would laugh except it is a serious condition of their mind and heart.

It is not a good work not to kill or steal. If you love then you will not hurt someone. It is a good work to treat others the way you would like to be treated. It is a good work to feed and clothe your hungry brother or sister. It is a good work to take care of your needy relatives.

The above is your quote.
It seems that you believe you are free from the law to kill and commit adultery because they are not good works if you don't do them.
You say above that it is not good to keep the Law--the Ten Commandments; therefore go and break it. Right?

 

[The Biblicist]

Just read what DHK and Biblicist say to me.





I would laugh except it is a serious condition of their mind and heart.

You are the one denying that OBEDIENCE to the Ten commandments is NOT A GOOD WORK! That is such an obvious foolish statement it is hard to believe you could even utter such nonsense!

What is obedience to the Ten commandments? Nine out of ten say do "NOT" do these things and what then is OBEYING those nine commands?????? Obedience is NOT doing those things but you deny that such Obedience is a good work.

Since DISOBEDIENCE is bad works on judgement day then what is OBEDIENCE but "good works"???????????

I can hardly believe you can utter such absolute foolish nonsense!!!! A Sunday school child if asked what does it mean to OBEY nine of the ten commandments would answer "DON'T DO what it command you NOT to do"!

If asked if obeying those commands is considered "good" by God they would answer "of course."

You are willfully defying God's Word and thus defying God and the Bible calls that HATE not love for God or His Word.

 

[The Biblicist]

Just read what DHK and Biblicist say to me.

Originally Posted by The Biblicist
So you believe that OBEDIENCE to the law is not a "good" work but an "evil" work?

Do you have a THIRD alternative that is neither "good" or "evil"?? How does God judge that THIRD alternative of yours on judgement day when the ONLY alternative he uses is "good" or "evil"????

Please explain that?

Since according to you, OBEYING God's law is not a "good work" then does not that only leave it to be classified as an "evil work" or do you know of any other alternative in God's Word to "good" but "evil"???? If you will not classify obedience to the law as a "good work" then what other alternative classification does God's word offer but "evil" and "disobedience"???? Do you know of a THIRD classificaiton by God or His Word???? If you do not you are wrong. You know you are wrong! Obedience to God's law is a "good work" and it will be judged by God as a "good work" on judgement day and YOU KNOW IT but you intentionaly lie!

Hence, by denying that OBEDIENCE to the ten commandments is a "good" work you are necessarily making it the only other available option - an "EVIL work"! Hence, you are teaching that OBEDIENCE to God is EVIL and and EVIL Work!!!!! Anyone teaching that is God's enemy and does not love God or His Word - so stop your false advertising at the bottom of your posts.

Can you provide any THIRD option Moriah?????

 

[Moriah]

If you sincerely love, then how do you murder someone? If you sincerely love, then

how are you stealing from someone? If you sincerely love, then how are you committing

adultery?

If you sincerely love, then how are you angry with your brother?

If you sincerely love, then how are you not helping your family in need? If you sincerely

love, then how are you not feeding and clothing your brother or sister in need?

Galatians 5:6 The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

 

[DHK]

If you sincerely love, then how do you murder someone? If you sincerely love, then

how are you stealing from someone? If you sincerely love, then how are you committing

adultery?

If you sincerely love, then how are you angry with your brother?

If you sincerely love, then how are you not helping your family in need? If you sincerely

love, then how are you not feeding and clothing your brother or sister in need?

Galatians 5:6 The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

We can throw out a lot of the Bible then. Just cull through it and cut out every negative command that ever was written.

This philosophy denies your idea of salvation by faith plus works or obedience. All you have to do is love. Obedience is not necessary. Works are not necessary. Just have love in Jesus, that is all. Salvation is through love in Jesus. Is that what the Bible teaches. No works; just love in Jesus is enough.

 

[Moriah]

We can throw out a lot of the Bible then. Just cull through it and cut out every negative command that ever was written.

Therefore, when the Bible says the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love, you want to tell God, “We can throw out a lot of the Bible then. Just cull through it and cut our every negative command that ever was written.”

 

[DHK]

Therefore, when the Bible says the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love, you want to tell God, “We can throw out a lot of the Bible then. Just cull through it and cut our every negative command that ever was written.”

That is the logical conclusion of what you have been posting. You don't seem to believe we have to keep the law. Thou shalt not murder is not a "work" that man has to keep. Therefore one is free to murder and commit adultery, according to you.

 

[The Biblicist]

If you sincerely love, then how do you murder someone? If you sincerely love, then

how are you stealing from someone? If you sincerely love, then how are you committing

adultery?

If you sincerely love, then how are you angry with your brother?

If you sincerely love, then how are you not helping your family in need? If you sincerely

love, then how are you not feeding and clothing your brother or sister in need?

Galatians 5:6 The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Is OBEDIENCE to the Law evil? You claim DISOBEDIENCE to God's commandments is "evil works" why then is not OBEDIENCE to God's commandments "good works"??


You are still evading the fact that on judgment day there are ONLY TWO ALTERNATIVES - "good" or "evil" works

Now answer the question, is OBEDIENCE to God's Ten commandments? Good or Evil works?

If OBEDIENCE to God is not "good works" then what constitutes "good works" on the day of judgment? DISOBEDIENCE to God????????? That is the only other option available!

 

[The Biblicist]

If you sincerely love, then how do you murder someone? If you sincerely love, then

how are you stealing from someone? If you sincerely love, then how are you committing

adultery?

If you sincerely love, then how are you angry with your brother?

If you sincerely love, then how are you not helping your family in need? If you sincerely

love, then how are you not feeding and clothing your brother or sister in need?

Galatians 5:6 The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Where does love originate in man? In his shoes? In his arms? In his tongue? Does not it originate in his "heart"? Where does faith originate in man? In his pants? In his legs? or in his heart?

"with the heart man believeth" - Rom. 10:8

"love the Lord your God with all YOUR HEART"

So where does obedience to the Law originate? The HEART!

Now, where does violation of the law originate with man??

Mt. 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Does not this prove that all EXTERNAL WORKS originate with the heart whether those works be good or bad?

Does not Matthew 5:27 prove that the vioialtion of "thou shalt not commit adultery" is violated IN THE HEART regardless if the lust of that heart is ever committed externally with the body????

Hence, is that disobedience IN THE HEART judged as a "good" or "evil" work on judgement day???? Come on Moriah be honest and answer this question!

If HEART DISOBEDIENCE will be judged as an "evil work" on judgement day then HEART OBEDIENCE will be judged as a "good work" on judgement day!

Are you denying that HEART DISOBEDIENCE will not be judged as an "evil work" on judgement day????????

You see works include the ATTITUDE of the heart as much as the ACTIONS of the body and simply because there are no corresponding actions with the body does not mean the Law was NOT BROKEN by the heart! Hence, "works" must involve HEART ACTIONS! If a heart action is EVIL then on judgement day which classification does it fall under for judgement - "good" or "evil" works! Come on Moriah! There is no third option and YOU KNOW IT!

Evil HEART ACTIONS will be judged as "evil works." Hence, RIGHTEOUS heart ACTIONS will be judged as "good works" to be rewarded for by God!

Likewise, is not LOVE in the heart simply OBEDIENCE to God's law IN THE HEART and that is why disobedience to God's law is not performed by the body?

If faith worketh by Love then what is necessary BEFORE faith can work? Is it not necessary first to have a HEART OF LOVE???

 

[Moriah]

Is OBEDIENCE to the Law evil? You claim DISOBEDIENCE to God's commandments is "evil works" why then is not OBEDIENCE to God's commandments "good works"??


You are still evading the fact that on judgment day there are ONLY TWO ALTERNATIVES - "good" or "evil" works

Now answer the question, is OBEDIENCE to God's Ten commandments? Good or Evil works?

If OBEDIENCE to God is not "good works" then what constitutes "good works" on the day of judgment? DISOBEDIENCE to God????????? That is the only other option available!

I have already answered you. I will answer you again if you answer my question that I asked you earlier.
Are you going to say to God, look at all my good works: here are some people I did not kill and I did not steal from these people?

 

[The Biblicist]

If you sincerely love, then how do you murder someone? If you sincerely love, then

how are you stealing from someone? If you sincerely love, then how are you committing

adultery?

If you sincerely love, then how are you angry with your brother?

If you sincerely love, then how are you not helping your family in need? If you sincerely

love, then how are you not feeding and clothing your brother or sister in need?

Galatians 5:6 The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Where does love originate in man? In his shoes? In his arms? In his tongue? Does not it originate in his "heart"? Where does faith originate in man? In his pants? In his legs? or in his heart?

"with the heart man believeth" - Rom. 10:8

"love the Lord your God with all YOUR HEART"

So where does obedience to the Law originate? The HEART!

Now, where does violation of the law originate with man??

Mt. 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Does not this prove that all EXTERNAL WORKS originate with the heart whether those works be good or bad?

Does not Matthew 5:27 prove that the vioialtion of "thou shalt not commit adultery" is violated IN THE HEART regardless if the lust of that heart is ever committed externally with the body????

Hence, is that disobedience IN THE HEART judged as a "good" or "evil" work on judgement day???? Come on Moriah be honest and answer this question!

If HEART DISOBEDIENCE will be judged as an "evil work" on judgement day then HEART OBEDIENCE will be judged as a "good work" on judgement day!

Are you denying that HEART DISOBEDIENCE will not be judged as an "evil work" on judgement day????????

You see works include the ATTITUDE of the heart as much as the ACTIONS of the body and simply because there are no corresponding actions with the body does not mean the Law was NOT BROKEN by the heart! Hence, "works" must involve HEART ACTIONS! If a heart action is EVIL then on judgement day which classification does it fall under for judgement - "good" or "evil" works! Come on Moriah! There is no third option and YOU KNOW IT!

Evil HEART ACTIONS will be judged as "evil works." Hence, RIGHTEOUS heart ACTIONS will be judged as "good works" to be rewarded for by God!

Now lets talk about "faith worketh by love." That is the prerequisite CONDITION OF THE HEART for either HEART obedience OR BODY obedience to God's Law.

If this is not YOUR heart condition then you are violating every law of God because OBEDIENCE originates only from that HEART CONDITION! Obedience is only possible in a heart where "faith worketh by love."

That means where this HEART CONDITION does not exist there is nothing that originates from the heart or body that OBEYS God's commandments but everything you do regardless how good it looks to men is nothing but PHARISEEICALISM and sin in God's sight. Love is the only proper HEART MOTIVE that can produce "good" in God's sight and that is why faith WORKETY BY LOVE!

So what is the prerequisite for anyone to do "good works" before God's sight? They must first have a heart that loves God and hates sin or they can do nothing good in God's sight because God looketh upon the heart to judge their actions.

If you are born with a good heart Moriah then why is the New Covenant defined as God giving a new heart and REMOVING THE OLD heart:

Ezek. 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Moriah what does God say is the prerequisite and "CAUSE" for people to "walk in my statues, and....keep my judgements, and do them"???

You can only OBEY God from the heart from the NEW heart and NEW Spirit He gives you. The OLD heart does not love God or obey God and that is why you must be given a NEW ONES!

If you were born with such a heart and with such a spirit why would God have to give you a NEW heart and a NEW spirit?

 

[DHK]

I have already answered you. I will answer you again if you answer my question that I asked you earlier.
Are you going to say to God, look at all my good works: here are some people I did not kill and I did not steal from these people?

Thus you realize that your good works, your obedience has no place in your salvation. You have nothing to show to the Lord whatsoever, except for the fact that you accepted his gift of salvation by faith and faith alone.

 

[Moriah]

Where does love originate in man? In his shoes? In his arms? In his tongue? Does not it originate in his "heart"? Where does faith originate in man? In his pants? In his legs? or in his heart?
"with the heart man believeth" - Rom. 10:8
"love the Lord your God with all YOUR HEART"
So where does obedience to the Law originate? The HEART!
Now, where does violation of the law originate with man??
Mt. 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Does not this prove that all EXTERNAL WORKS originate with the heart whether those works be good or bad?

It is bad works to kill someone. It is good works to feed your hungry brother.
Why is that so hard for you to understand? I would be ashamed to say look at my good works I have not killed anyone.

Does not Matthew 5:27 prove that the vioialtion of "thou shalt not commit adultery" is violated IN THE HEART regardless if the lust of that heart is ever committed externally with the body????

Do not lust in your heart. Do you lust in your heart? If you do that is sin.

Hence, is that disobedience IN THE HEART judged as a "good" or "evil" work on judgement day???? Come on Moriah be honest and answer this question!

I see you cannot help yourself to talk any way you feel.
Why would you ever think that disobedience in the heart is good?

If HEART DISOBEDIENCE will be judged as an "evil work" on judgement day then HEART OBEDIENCE will be judged as a "good work" on judgement day!

Loving my spouse sincerely is the good that I reap for obeying Jesus, and when the Lord comes, I will receive praise from God.

Are you denying that HEART DISOBEDIENCE will not be judged as an "evil work" on judgement day????????

I believe that God will judge everyone’s heart.

You see works include the ATTITUDE of the heart as much as the ACTIONS of the body and simply because there are no corresponding actions with the body does not mean the Law was NOT BROKEN by the heart! Hence, "works" must involve HEART ACTIONS! If a heart action is EVIL then on judgement day which classification does it fall under for judgement - "good" or "evil" works! Come on Moriah! There is no third option and YOU KNOW IT!

I am not sure what you are talking about, what do you mean a third option? How about this…not everyone who hates murders someone, and not everyone who lusts in their heart ends up committing adultery.

Evil HEART ACTIONS will be judged as "evil works." Hence, RIGHTEOUS heart ACTIONS will be judged as "good works" to be rewarded for by God!

How is not murdering a good work? Do you think of how you never murdered, or do you think of who you wanted to murder but did not?

Now lets talk about "faith worketh by love." That is the prerequisite CONDITION OF THE HEART for either HEART obedience OR BODY obedience to God's Law. If this is not YOUR heart condition then you are violating every law of God because OBEDIENCE originates only from that HEART CONDITION! Obedience is only possible in a heart where "faith worketh by love." That means where this HEART CONDITION does not exist there is nothing that originates from the heart or body that OBEYS God's commandments but everything you do regardless how good it looks to men is nothing but PHARISEEICALISM and sin in God's sight. Love is the only proper HEART MOTIVE that can produce "good" in God's sight and that is why faith WORKETY BY LOVE! So what is the prerequisite for anyone to do "good works" before God's sight? They must first have a heart that loves God and hates sin or they can do nothing good in God's sight because God looketh upon the heart to judge their actions. If you are born with a good heart Moriah then why is the New Covenant defined as God giving a new heart and REMOVING THE OLD heart:

I got Jesus’ teachings. I got Jesus’ teachings and started obeying them. When I called for Jesus to save me, Jesus saved me and gave me his Holy Spirit.

Ezek. 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Moriah what does God say is the prerequisite and "CAUSE" for people to "walk in my statues, and....keep my judgements, and do them"???

After Jesus saved me, he opened the eyes of my heart I knew God and understood.

You can only OBEY God from the heart from the NEW heart and NEW Spirit He gives you. The OLD heart does not love God or obey God and that is why you must be given a NEW ONES!

Are you saying all the Old Testament righteous people were given new hearts? Of course, we can obey God, and you know that when you do, you will receive the Holy Spirit, you will be reconciled to God.

If you were born with such a heart and with such a spirit why would God have to give you a NEW heart and a NEW spirit?

Do you not want to have a heart with the Father and Jesus living in it?