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Man is unable to choose spiritual life (salvation) on his own!

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evangelist-7

New Member

Man is unable to choose spiritual life (salvation) on his own
because he is …

-- born with an inherited sin nature … many verses
-- spiritually dead in his sins … Ephesians 2:1-5, Colossians 2:13
-- a captive to the law of sin and death … Romans 8:2
-- a slave to sin, forced to obey evil … John 8:34, Romans 6:17-21, Titus 3:3
-- an enemy of God, hostile to God, opposed to God … Romans 8:7

-- spiritually blind and deaf … Matthew 13:13-15, John 9:39, John 12:39-40, Ephesians 4:18
-- unable to understand the things of God (they are foolishness) … 1 Corinthians 2:14
-- seeing the gospel as utter foolishness … 1 Corinthians 1:18
-- unable to believe the truth of the gospel because it is veiled … 2 Corinthians 4:3

-- blinded by Satan … Acts 26:18, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4
-- controlled (ruled) by Satan … John 12:31, 1 John 5:19, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor 10:4-5, Ephesians 2:2
-- deceived by Satan … Revelation 12:9, John 8:44, 2 Corinthians 11:14
-- a captive of Satan unto death … Hebrews 2:14-15, Luke 4:18

-- unable to be righteous by doing good works … Isaiah 64:6, Galatians 2:16, Titus 3:5
-- unable to be saved by his own desire or works … Romans 9:16, Ephesians 2:8-9
-- able to be saved only by the grace and mercy of God … Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:4-7
-- NOT allowed to choose ... God chooses only whomever He pleases … Romans 9:9-24

Therefore, man is totally at God’s mercy re: whether he/she goes to Heaven or Hell ???
.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
He is totally unable to come to God on his own. But that does nto mean he is never given a choice by God.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yeshua1 said:
God gives ALL the chance to repent and believe, but only thsoe electe dout by Him will be able to do so!
Click to expand...

No, not a just a chance but a choice. And it is not that only the elect will come to God but it is only the elect have come to God.
 
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Winman

Active Member
I don't know of any person who says a person can choose spiritual life on his own. Even Pelagius did not believe this.

Pelagius himself said, “I anathematize the man who either thinks or says that the grace of God, whereby ‘Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners,’ is not necessary not only for ever hour and for every moment, but also for every act of our lives: and those who endeavor to dis-annul it deserve everlasting punishment.”[31]

Pelagius said, “This grace we do not allow to consist only in the law but also in the help of God. God helps us through His teaching and revelation by opening the eyes of our heart, by pointing out to us the future so that we may not be preoccupied with the present, by uncovering the snares of the devil, by enlightening us with the manifold and ineffable gift of heavenly grace.”[32]

Pelagius said, “God always aids by the help of his grace. God aids us by his doctrine and revelation, while he opens the eyes of our heart; while he shows us the future, that we may not be engrossed with the present; while he discloses the snares of the devil; while he illuminates us by the multiform and ineffable gift of heavenly grace. Does he who says this, appear to you to deny grace? Or does he appear to confess both divine grace and the freewill of man?”[33]
Click to expand...

So, this whole thread is a straw-man. Nobody denies that man must be assisted by the grace of God to choose Jesus Christ, even Pelagius did not believe this. He has been unfairly slandered, especially by the Reformed and Calvinists, who will use any method including outright falsehood to demonize those who disagree with them.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits.
 
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Winman

Active Member
-- born with an inherited sin nature … many verses
Click to expand...

What a laugh, the OP shows many verses for every point he is attempting to make except this one. We are simply supposed to take his word that many verses say man is born with an inherited sin nature.

But he fails to show even a single verse. :laugh:
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Winman said:
What a laugh, the OP shows many verses for every point he is attempting to make except this one. We are simply supposed to take his word that many verses say man is born with an inherited sin nature.

But he fails to show even a single verse. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Even if he did, would you accept it?
 
W

Winman

Active Member
-- a slave to sin, forced to obey evil … John 8:34, Romans 6:17-21, Titus 3:3
Click to expand...

Do these scriptures really say we are forced to obey evil? Let's see...

Jhn 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Did Jesus say a person is forced to obey sin here? NOPE, Jesus said the man who commits sin is the servant of sin. That is because the moment you sin, you "sell" yourself to sin and come under it's bondage. You are now condemned to death for your sin and cannot escape unless you trust in Christ. When we trust in Jesus we are baptized into his death and die to sin. We are like a woman who was married but her husband dies, now we are free to marry another. We are now married to Jesus and under grace.

This is what being a servant of sin means, it does not mean we are compelled to obey sin.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Do these verses say we are forced to sin? Hardly. In fact they show we have the ability to obey the gospel and yield ourselves to righteousness to holiness.

Again, Calvinism teaches the EXACT OPPOSITE of what scripture really says.

Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Does this verse say we are forced to sin? NO, it simply states that we used to sin. People read into scripture what is not there.

So, none of the verses quoted prove that man is forced to sin.
 
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Winman

Active Member
DHK said:
Even if he did, would you accept it?
Click to expand...

Let's see it.

I can show you scripture that says God made men upright, will YOU believe it?

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

The word "they" points back to the word "man" and shows this verse is speaking of all men, not just Adam.

OK, I have shown you a verse that says God has made all men upright. Do you believe it?

And I can show you more scripture that supports that man is not born dead in sin. In fact, I have shown it many times and you know it.

Who is it that does not believe scripture??
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Romans 5:12

King James Version (KJV)

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
 
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Winman

Active Member
Earth said:
Romans 5:12

King James Version (KJV)

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Click to expand...

What does this verse say passed upon all men?

Death?

or

Sin?

Please answer that question.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Earth said:
And you dont believe that God knows from the beginning if you will come to him or not? Romans 1
Click to expand...

First I did not say that. Second, one is not in conflict with the other.

Do you believe that election is based on foreknowledge?
 
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evangelist-7

New Member
Winman said:

I don't know of any person who says a person can choose spiritual life on his own. Even Pelagius did not believe this.
So, this whole thread is a straw-man.
Nobody denies that man must be assisted by the grace of God to choose Jesus Christ ...

I've just spent 2 weeks discussing this with a very respectable group on an excellent Christian forum.
Sorry, most of dem don't agree wit ya ... Dey insist it's by man's free-will choice!
Maybe they're just stubborn on this one point.
Don't know if they're Baptists, Evangelicals, or what.
.
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Winman

Active Member
evangelist-7 said:
Winman said:

I don't know of any person who says a person can choose spiritual life on his own. Even Pelagius did not believe this.
So, this whole thread is a straw-man.
Nobody denies that man must be assisted by the grace of God to choose Jesus Christ ...

I've just spent 2 weeks discussing this with a very respectable group on an excellent Christian forum.
Sorry, most of dem don't agree wit ya ... Dey insist it's by man's free-will choice.
Don't know if they're Baptists, Evangelicals, or what.
.
Click to expand...

Then go write this nonsense there, nobody here claims a person can come to Jesus without God's grace.
Click to expand...
 
E

evangelist-7

New Member
Winman said:
The OP shows many verses for every point he is attempting to make except this one.
We are simply supposed to take his word that many verses say man is born with an inherited sin nature.
But he fails to show even a single verse. :laugh:
Click to expand...
Have you been asleep the last few years?
Here's one thread about it, and there are others (full of verses, BTW) ...
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=78585&highlight=inherited+nature

Another heads up ... anyone who is a slave is forced to do stuff, stuff, and even more stuff. Just ask one.
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Winman

Active Member
evangelist-7 said:
Have you been asleep the last few years?
Here's one thread about it, and there are others (full of verses, BTW) ...
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=78585&highlight=inherited+nature

Another heads up ... anyone who is a slave is forced to do stuff, stuff, and even more stuff. Just ask one.
.
Click to expand...

OK, Heavenly Pilgrim is not Baptist and writes in the Other Denominations section.

Second, I agree with him on Original Sin, there is NO SCRIPTURE whatsoever that says we are born with a sin nature. I challenge you to show it here and now.
 
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