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Two baptisms: Which is which?

G

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
awaken said:
"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (Luke 11:11-13)
Is God our Father before salvation?
Do we ask for the Holy Spirit when we are saved?
So when are we to ask for more of the Holy Spirit....and he will give it to us?
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Yes, God is our Father and that's why He saves us; He does not save us in order to become our Father. God is the Father of his children of all time from eternity to eternity.

When we "ask the Father" ANYTHING, He responds with the 'Yes' of his Holy Spirit; it's not that we start talking tongues and all that nonsense; the Holy Spirit IS OUR SATISFACTION in anything and everything we pray of our Father which is in heaven.


 
G

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
Yeshua1 said:
saying the one Baptism that we are commanded to do is the water one, as the Baptism in the HS happens at the moment are born again!
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You, Yeshua1 and others, are you apostles?

How about ONE example by an apostle even, who baptised with water-baptism?
 
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A

awaken

Active Member
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Yes, God is our Father and that's why He saves us; He does not save us in order to become our Father. God is the Father of his children of all time from eternity to eternity.

When we "ask the Father" ANYTHING, He responds with the 'Yes' of his Holy Spirit; it's not that we start talking tongues and all that nonsense; the Holy Spirit IS OUR SATISFACTION in anything and everything we pray of our Father which is in heaven.


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So He is our father before we are born from above?
 
T

Thomas Helwys

New Member
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Yes, God is our Father and that's why He saves us; He does not save us in order to become our Father. God is the Father of his children of all time from eternity to eternity.

When we "ask the Father" ANYTHING, He responds with the 'Yes' of his Holy Spirit; it's not that we start talking tongues and all that nonsense; the Holy Spirit IS OUR SATISFACTION in anything and everything we pray of our Father which is in heaven.


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Thank you.
 
A

awaken

Active Member
"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment." (Hebrews 6:1-2)

I thought this would be a good time to post this scripture here...Could it be than in Eph. 4 when it says there is only one baptism...maybe they were saying there was only ONE baptism that brings you into the body of Christ. Not that there was ONLY ONE...but maybe they were implying that water baptism does not bring you into the body only Spirit baptism! (THose are just thoughts not backed up with scripture...so do not get your panties in a wad..)
 
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awaken

Active Member
Paul simply mentioned "one baptism." The question is, which one of the baptisms in the New Testament was Paul talking about in the passage? Perhaps it was John's baptism ( Mark 1:4), or perhaps it was the baptism of suffering (Mark 10:38-39), or perhaps it was the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11), or perhaps it was the baptism of fire (Matthew 3:11), or perhaps it was Christian water baptism (Matthew 28:19). Paul said nothing at all about water or water baptism in the context of Ephesians 4:4-5, so people are simply making an assumption that Paul was talking about water baptism.
 
A

awaken

Active Member
Acts 19
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was * at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them *, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed ? And they said unto him *, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized ? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Another observation concerning this scriptue...
IF (as some say) John's baptism was good enough and accepted by Jesus for the apostles, then why again were these rebaptized?

The apostles did not receive the Holy Spirit when they were baptized either by John. They did not receive the Holy Spirit until the Day of Pentecost.

So if the apostles were saved...before the Day of Pentecost...what was Pentecost? Why was Pentecost needed if it was JUST the indwelling Holy Spirit? I think the Day of Pentecost was more than the indwelling Holy Spirit!

Can someone be saved without the indwelling Holy Spirit?
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
No fine, you got me there. I meant IN OBEDIENCE TO 'THE GREAT COMMISSION' after Christ resurrected as found in Matthew 28.
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Sorry. I was being a bit facetious. :)

But to answer you, that would depend on who you believe did the baptizing in Acts 2:41 and following.

It would also depend on whether you believe Paul was an Apostle (one of the twelve) or an apostle (small case "a") when he baptized in 1 Corinthians 1:14.

:)
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
awaken said:
Acts 19
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was * at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them *, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed ? And they said unto him *, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized ? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Another observation concerning this scriptue...
IF (as some say) John's baptism was good enough and accepted by Jesus for the apostles, then why again were these rebaptized?

The apostles did not receive the Holy Spirit when they were baptized either by John. They did not receive the Holy Spirit until the Day of Pentecost.

So if the apostles were saved...before the Day of Pentecost...what was Pentecost? Why was Pentecost needed if it was JUST the indwelling Holy Spirit? I think the Day of Pentecost was more than the indwelling Holy Spirit!

Can someone be saved without the indwelling Holy Spirit?
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No! For if a person does NOT have the Spirit of Christ, is not one of His!

And again, the Holy Spirit did things on pentacost NEVER done again by him, and much of what happened in Acts was to have the church set up, OT prophecy fulfilled, Apsotolic ministry accomplished, NOT what he has done in the Church since that time!
 
A

awaken

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
No! For if a person does NOT have the Spirit of Christ, is not one of His!

And again, the Holy Spirit did things on pentacost NEVER done again by him, and much of what happened in Acts was to have the church set up, OT prophecy fulfilled, Apsotolic ministry accomplished, NOT what he has done in the Church since that time!
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He did not have to do it again! Just like he did not have to die on the cross again! He fulfilled it! BUT once the Holy Spirit was poured out...He is here with/upon/within the believers!
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
awaken said:
He did not have to do it again! Just like he did not have to die on the cross again! He fulfilled it! BUT once the Holy Spirit was poured out...He is here with/upon/within the believers!
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Are you quoting Joel, as peter did? if so, do you realise that the full fillment of that will happen ONLY at time of the second coming, reigning of christ upon the earth?
 
A

awaken

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
Are you quoting Joel, as peter did? if so, do you realise that the full fillment of that will happen ONLY at time of the second coming, reigning of christ upon the earth?
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So are you now saying that Jesus did not send the promise on the Day of Pentecost? Peter said in vs. "But THIS (what is the this?) is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;" It was what the crowd was witnessing and making fun of!
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
awaken said:
So are you now saying that Jesus did not send the promise on the Day of Pentecost? Peter said in vs. "But THIS (what is the this?) is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;" It was what the crowd was witnessing and making fun of!
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Do you thin the Joel prophesy was fully fulfilled at pentacost?
 
A

awaken

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
Do you thin the Joel prophesy was fully fulfilled at pentacost?
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The beginning was fulfilled that day! Joel's prophesy covered a period of time! The end of the last days are not here yet. Well, we might be living in them right now...so the end of Joel 2 could be fulfilled in our lifetime!

But the Baptism of the hOly Spirit was not just for the apostles or just for those associated with them! THe promise was for ALL that God callls!
 
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