Featured Researching apostles...

I have to agree.....

 

Just because many saw the risen Lord does not speak to the qualification of the Apostle. However, scripture directly speaks to this:

It cannot be more clear.

This is a false standard and not based on scripture.

It is not a matter of cannot but a matter of does not and that I have shown you from scripture.

And this is a prime example of the loosy goosy theology of charismatics.

You want it to be true so you have blinded yourself to the truth as has been shown you from scripture. Your hyper-focus on this issue show a shallow faith based on what you can get from God which is antithetical to true worship.

 

There is no onus on him or anyone else to prove "that they are not needed."
One does not prove a negative, just like an atheist cannot prove "There is no God."
The responsibility is upon you to prove that they are needed in the 21st century and to do that from Scripture. So far you haven't. And your interpretation of Scripture given has not been very sound.

 

No, it simply shows that churches during the first century had prophets, not when they became prophets. And that isn't important. What is significant is they were in the first century. We don't live in that time period called the Apostolic Age.

Go and study ecclesiology. There were early churches, not "the church."
You are following a wrong pattern, a pattern that probably the RCC set in place. There are churches, not "the church."

Do your Charismatic friends tell you that? Prophecy has ceased, and with it the office of a prophet.

You have been given Scripture before. There is lots of it.
The apostles and their associates were the authors of the NT.
Jesus told them that He would bring to their memories "all things" (that is Scripture) so they could write it down for us.
Peter tells us to be mindful and remember the "words of the apostles" (Scripture).
When the Apostolic Age ended with the death of John, so did the office of the apostles and prophets.

No, rather it supports it. You do not want to harmonize Scripture with Scripture. Since the offices of the apostles and prophets have ceased they are not for today. Paul wrote that to the church at Ephesus, not to your church.

You fail to look at context. The office of an apostle ceased in the first century. The letter was written to the church at Ephesus, not to you.

The entire context is Jesus giving instruction to His Twelve Apostles, not to you. His Apostles were also prophets. You will distort any passage to try and find a way to justify your perverted doctrine.

It proves you don't understand the passage and have made up your mind not to understand the passage.

 

not if you define the prophet as being one who was gifted to foretell from the holy spirit, to have onging revealtions/doctrines, to basically operate similair to an Apsotle in that regard... the ongoing revaltory function of BOTH of them ceased when the canon was completed to us!

 

te office of the Apostle was defined by Jesus as being His original 12, and paul!

If you want to make Apsotle mean missionary, fine, but think you want it to mean same as being one of the 12 for today, correct?

 

Jesus had chosen him to be an Apostle in SAMEfashion as the original 12, as peter acknowledged that he was the Apsotle sent to gentiles as he was to the jews!

Again, HAD to beither one of the 12, a disciple walking with jesus as mathius, or else saw the risen lord!

NONE qualify today, or since John death!

 

Go through the authors of the NT. Who are they--one by one.
They are either apostles or close associates of the apostles?
The ones who were not apostles--where did they get their information--the apostles!

Furthermore what does Scripture tell us about this matter:
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
--Jesus was speaking to His apostles here. There is no one, not you, not anyone alive today that can claim this promise. Has the Holy Spirit led you into ALL TRUTH? Are you going to make a claim to omniscience here, as some unwisely do? Do you have all the truth there is to have? Is that what it is teaching?
Of course not! It is a promise specific to the Apostles, that the Holy Spirit would bring back to their memories all the truth that Christ had taught them. He would lead them in all truth, in order that they would be able to write all of God's truth down for us to have throughout all ages. Christ is promising the apostles, the writers of the NT, that the Spirit would give them the words of Scripture, His words. "All Truth" refers to the exact words of Christ, plus the words that God wants in the pages of His Word. Whatever the Spirit would speak to them would be inspired of God, and He would show them things to come. He does not do that today.

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
--Here Peter stresses to his reader that he has something to tell them that is very important. Put in your minds. Remember it. Be mindful of the WORDS spoken:
First by the prophets (authors of the OT).
Second, by "us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour.
--He tells us that the authors of the Scripture are the prophets and apostles. He tells us to remember that and be mindful of these words spoken by them.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
--Here in the same chapter, in verse three he starts speaking about "ignorant scoffers."
In verse 15 he refers to the writings of Paul, and in verse 16 he refers to them as Scripture, some of which is hard to understand. But those that are unlearned take these Scriptures and other Scriptures (being unlearned and unstable) and wrest them to their own destruction (spiritual destruction). This would describe much of the Charismatic movement if you study what goes on within their ranks.

It is worth noting here that Peter knew which of Paul's writings were Scripture and which were not.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
--Look at this tremendous experience that Peter describes. He describes the experience that he had on the Mount of Transfiguration, when he saw Christ glorified, and a voice come booming out of heaven saying: "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." He saw Elijah and Moses there. There is no greater experience that a person could have then that one. And yet after all of that, what does Peter conclude:

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
--We have God's Word, and God's Word is greater than any experience you may have. You may think you have the greatest mountain top experience ever (You can't beat mine), but the Word of God is more reliable, greater, surer, then that. You do well to take heed to God's Word as a light that shines in a dark place..."
His emphasis was not on experience but on the Word, a lesson that Charismatics should quickly learn.

Jude wrote about 70 A.D. Apart from the writings of John he was one of the last to write. What does he say:
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
--There were many things Jude could have written. He could have told us of the childhood of Jesus. But he didn't. The Holy Spirit directed him to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints."
--The faith is that body of doctrine which we as Christians believe today. They already had it then. There was very little to be added. All of Paul's epistles and the three synoptic gospels had already been written. They had the faith; they were to contend for it. It was the body of doctrine that was delivered to them by the Apostles. Both Peter and Paul had been martyred by the time this was written.

"once delivered to the saints" John Gill eloquently comments on this phrase:

 

Absolutely. They died by the end of the first century. C'mon, this is a no-brainer.

You have two problems with your interpretation of this verse.
First you fail to recognize context--the assembly or church at Ephesus, a first century church when the Apostolic Age had not yet ended.
Secondly, the Apostles and prophets were already there, were already "given." God "gave."
In addition, Eph.2:20 teaches that the apostles and prophets make up the foundation of every local church, along with Christ being the chief cornerstone. Therefore they could not be for today.

There is no universal church, an assumption you make in your interpretation of this verse. It was directed at the church of Ephesus. From that we can make practical applications.

 

WHAt would modern Apostles have to do then? the canon is firmly closed, and God will not be adding additional revealtion to us, or do you think he has been in the Charasamtic Movement granting us extra revelations for the church?

Or do you see as being modern day apostles/prophets?