What I am promoting is scripture, that no one has addressed! The last few threads ALL the comments were ridicule..no one addressed the scriptures except DHK...she addresed them with her interpretation of them...which I refused! I have the right to refuse your interpretation just as you have mine!
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Indwelling/ upon Holy Spirit
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I started to put this on the baptism thread but thought it fit this thread better....
The author of the letter to the Hebrews tells us that one of the "elementary teachings" that new Christians received was "instruction about baptisms":
"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment." (Hebrews 6:1-2)
This indicates that new Christians were taught about "baptisms" (plural), and it tells us that they needed instruction about these baptisms. There are only two main Christian baptisms mentioned in the New Testament, which are water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit (although some people believe that there is a third Christian baptism as well, called a "baptism of fire" - Matthew 3:11). Many Christians believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit happens automatically at the moment of salvation, but notice that new Christians would not need instructions about something which is automatic and which has already happened to them. For example, after you received salvation and the indwelling Holy Spirit, did you need someone to give you instructions about how to receive the indwelling Holy Spirit? No, because He was already living in your heart from the moment of your salvation! But it turns out that many people do need some instructions on how to receive the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit.
In the above passage, it is more likely that new Christians received instructions about the two baptisms which they had not yet received. This would indicate that just like water baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is only available to us after salvation.
The author of the letter to the Hebrews tells us that one of the "elementary teachings" that new Christians received was "instruction about baptisms":
"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment." (Hebrews 6:1-2)
This indicates that new Christians were taught about "baptisms" (plural), and it tells us that they needed instruction about these baptisms. There are only two main Christian baptisms mentioned in the New Testament, which are water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit (although some people believe that there is a third Christian baptism as well, called a "baptism of fire" - Matthew 3:11). Many Christians believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit happens automatically at the moment of salvation, but notice that new Christians would not need instructions about something which is automatic and which has already happened to them. For example, after you received salvation and the indwelling Holy Spirit, did you need someone to give you instructions about how to receive the indwelling Holy Spirit? No, because He was already living in your heart from the moment of your salvation! But it turns out that many people do need some instructions on how to receive the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit.
In the above passage, it is more likely that new Christians received instructions about the two baptisms which they had not yet received. This would indicate that just like water baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is only available to us after salvation.
Hebrews 6:2 of [the] doctrine of washings, and of imposition of hands, and of resurrection of [the] dead, and of eternal judgment; (Darby)I started to put this on the baptism thread but thought it fit this thread better....
The author of the letter to the Hebrews tells us that one of the "elementary teachings" that new Christians received was "instruction about baptisms":
"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment." (Hebrews 6:1-2)
In the above passage, it is more likely that new Christians received instructions about the two baptisms which they had not yet received. This would indicate that just like water baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is only available to us after salvation.
The word baptism is an English word. It most often means immersion, but sometimes means washing. Seeing this is the Book of Hebrews, and written to Hebrew Christians, it is likely that it refers to ceremonial washings, as the context also would bear that interpretation out. The Jews, especially, needed instruction concerning their previous ceremonial washings and how they did or did not apply to Christianity. It goes well with the "laying on of hands," a common ceremony used in Judaism as well.
Is this what you rejected:What I am promoting is scripture, that no one has addressed! The last few threads ALL the comments were ridicule..no one addressed the scriptures except DHK...she addresed them with her interpretation of them...which I refused! I have the right to refuse your interpretation just as you have mine!
The fact that you believe all before the resurrection are unsaved?Not only is your tongue speaking gibberish, so is this theology of yours gibberish.
Your conclusion is that for 3 1/2 years Jesus taught unsaved, unregenerated wicked hell-bent sinners who never attained salvation until after he arose from the dead.
Even though on several occasions, Peter testified of the deity of Christ, of his belief in the Messiah as the Son of God, that he would believe no other, that they as a whole had given up all to follow him, still you believe they are unsaved. Would unsaved people say and do what Peter and the others said and did?
Was John the Baptist, for whom Jesus had such great praise also unsaved?
What about all those mentioned in Hebrews 11, the heroes of the faith, also unsaved because they died before the resurrection? Are they also unsaved?
Your position is quite untenable, if not down right ridiculous.
Jesus sent his disciples out twice. Once he sent the 12 out, and then he sent out 70.
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
--These are the works of the unsaved??
John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
--Peter's testimony of the Lord. You think this is from an unsaved person?
You missed my point...AGAIN!Hebrews 6:2 of [the] doctrine of washings, and of imposition of hands, and of resurrection of [the] dead, and of eternal judgment; (Darby)
The word baptism is an English word. It most often means immersion, but sometimes means washing. Seeing this is the Book of Hebrews, and written to Hebrew Christians, it is likely that it refers to ceremonial washings, as the context also would bear that interpretation out. The Jews, especially, needed instruction concerning their previous ceremonial washings and how they did or did not apply to Christianity. It goes well with the "laying on of hands," a common ceremony used in Judaism as well.
The baptisms is plural! Maybe you need to look up in the BIBLE and see how many baptisms are mentioned. I think evangalist gave a list if you have trouble looking them up!
Yes, it is plural. There many different ceremonial washings. However, the Bible specifically says there is "one baptism."You missed my point...AGAIN!
The baptisms is plural! Maybe you need to look up in the BIBLE and see how many baptisms are mentioned. I think evangalist gave a list if you have trouble looking them up!
I believe all are saved by faith...OT looking toward the COMPLETE work of Christ! NT looking back at the COMPLETE work of Christ.Is this what you rejected:
The fact that you believe all before the resurrection are unsaved?
Jesus sent his disciples out twice. Once he sent the 12 out, and then he sent out 70.
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
--These are the works of the unsaved??
John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
--Peter's testimony of the Lord. You think this is from an unsaved person?
But the indwelling Holy Spirit...did they have that?
Yes, it is plural. There many different ceremonial washings. However, the Bible specifically says there is "one baptism."
ONe baptism that gets you into the body of Christ! No other baptism can get you into the body of Christ...which one do you say it is? IF you say there is only ONE BAPTISM...then what are you going to do with water baptism? Throw it out the door!
Water does not get you into the body! But we still have water baptism, don't we?
You are confused. Christ does not contradict himself.ONe baptism that gets you into the body of Christ! No other baptism can get you into the body of Christ...which one do you say it is? IF you say there is only ONE BAPTISM...then what are you going to do with water baptism? Throw it out the door!
Water does not get you into the body! But we still have water baptism, don't we?
There is one baptism. The Bible declares that.
Now what was the last command that Christ gave to the church?
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
What baptism was Jesus speaking about?
So now are you saying that it is water baptism that puts you into the body?You are confused. Christ does not contradict himself.
There is one baptism. The Bible declares that.
Now what was the last command that Christ gave to the church?
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
What baptism was Jesus speaking about?
Thomas Helwys
New Member
What I am promoting is scripture, that no one has addressed! The last few threads ALL the comments were ridicule..no one addressed the scriptures except DHK...she addresed them with her interpretation of them...which I refused! I have the right to refuse your interpretation just as you have mine!
You sure DHK is a "she"?
My goodness! I made a mistake! That proves you are not reading what I post...just searching for errors!You sure DHK is a "she"?
Yes. But I believe that every local church is "a body of Christ." I don't believe in "The body of Christ," as you do. I don't believe in "the universal church" like you do. That is why I have been stressing the importance of the context of the local church throughout these threads. In the explanation, for example, of Eph.4:11-13 he is speaking to a local church or assembly at Ephesus. As he speaks to that church we make applications to other Bible-believing churches or assemblies.So now are you saying that it is water baptism that puts you into the body?
Look throughout history.
There isn't a Protestant denomination that hasn't used water baptism as a door of entry into the local church. Every church is a body of believers. Its foundation is Christ. Its head is Christ. The members (born again believers) are the building blocks, building on the foundation (the apostles and prophets, with Christ being the chief cornerstone). Eph.2:20
Thomas Helwys
New Member
My goodness! I made a mistake! That proves you are not reading what I post...just searching for errors!
That proves you are a habitual liar.
I thoroughly read all your posts, as that is how I am able to respond to your vain imaginings and foolishness.
So water baptism is what puts you into the body of Christ?Yes. But I believe that every local church is "a body of Christ." I don't believe in "The body of Christ," as you do. I don't believe in "the universal church" like you do. That is why I have been stressing the importance of the context of the local church throughout these threads. In the explanation, for example, of Eph.4:11-13 he is speaking to a local church or assembly at Ephesus. As he speaks to that church we make applications to other Bible-believing churches or assemblies.
Look throughout history.
There isn't a Protestant denomination that hasn't used water baptism as a door of entry into the local church. Every church is a body of believers. Its foundation is Christ. Its head is Christ. The members (born again believers) are the building blocks, building on the foundation (the apostles and prophets, with Christ being the chief cornerstone). Eph.2:20
Either reply to the scriptures or don't reply at all! If you do not like my post quit reading them!That proves you are a habitual liar.
I thoroughly read all your posts, as that is how I am able to respond to your vain imaginings and foolishness.
Asked and answered.So water baptism is what puts you into the body of Christ?
Can you read?
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Either reply to the scriptures or don't reply at all! If you do not like my post quit reading them!
I have replied to the scriptures many times in my responses to you. If you can't reply to me without twisting my words and habitually lying, then stop responding to me. l
Well, again we disagree! Water does not save!Asked and answered.
Can you read?
Deal!! Because debating with you gets no where because you get offended to easy!I have replied to the scriptures many times in my responses to you. If you can't reply to me without twisting my words and habitually lying, then stop responding to me. l