Baptism in the Holy Spirit

[Steadfast Fred]

1 Corinthians 13:12 does not say "fully known". It says "known".

You add to the Word the word "fully" to bolster your claim that 1 Corinthians 13:12 is speaking of us seeing Jesus. Poor hermeneutics.

We have the complete Word of God. It has everything we need to know to make us wise unto Salvation, everything we need to reveal how God wants us to act as Christians, everything we need to know about our future.

We don't need the alleged prophecies of how God is going to bless our finances or jobs. We don't need the alleged gibberish that the Pentecostal/Charismatic/Word of Faith preachers babble. We don't need to mimic drunken fools that are found wallowing on the floor.

Our Holy Spirit doesn't operate in those fashions.

 

[Yeshua1]

Re: post #137 ... I belong to the first group ... our experiences agree 100% with Scripture.
Groups 2 and 3 are out of their minds ... I say this as gently as possible.
.

So having your wife as a spiritual leader, as a modern prophetess agrees 100% with bible?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I do not base my doctrine on other religions! It is plain in scriptures that the Holy Spirit UPON is different than the Holy Spirit WITHIN! Can it happen all at once, Yes! But they are still two different works of the Holy Spirit!

You did not answer the question, and I am not surprised. You have no comprehension or discernment.

None of the three positions I outlined are in accord with scripture. To say that not all believers have the HS baptism is a lie. 1 Cor. 12:13 proves that.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Re: post #137 ... I belong to the first group ... our experiences agree 100% with Scripture.
Groups 2 and 3 are out of their minds ... I say this as gently as possible.
.

Your experiences contradict scripture 100%, as do groups 2 and 3.

 

[evangelist-7]

To say that not all believers have the HS baptism is a lie.
1 Cor. 12:13 proves that.

If you were open to the truth and not biased, perhaps I could help you understand.
Have you seen my chart re: the 14 passages concerning the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

Note:
Your 1 Cor 12:13 specifies the Spirit does the baptizing into the church (i.e. at salvation).
The 4 gospels specify that Jesus does the baptizing with the Holy Spirit.
Your ONLY chance to get this revelation knowledge is if you are open to the truth.
Most here are not.
.

 

[The Biblicist]

If you were open to the truth and not biased, perhaps I could help you understand.
Have you seen my chart re: the 14 passages concerning the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

Note:
Your 1 Cor 12:13 specifies the Spirit does the baptizing into the church (i.e. at salvation).
The 4 gospels specify that Jesus does the baptizing with the Holy Spirit.
Your ONLY chance to get this revelation knowledge is if you are open to the truth.
Most here are not.
.

you are as biased as they come!! The problem is that you interpret scripture subjectively instead of objectively. Your experiences dictate your forced applications of scripture.

1 Corinthians 12:13 has nothing to do with Spirit baptism but with water baptism IF the overall context is our guide to interpreting it. In chapter one there is a division over the administrators of water baptism. In chapter three Paul teaches them they should not be divided over the administrators of water baptism because they all work under the leadership of the Spirit as "ONE" (I Cor. 3:5-8). The local congregation at Corinth is a temple of the Holy Spirit - a body assembled and gifted to serve each other and minister in that particular community. He speaks them according to their profession as saved persons, spiritual stones built up as a spiritual temple at Corinth and thus made to drink into the influence, gifts, leadership of the Spirit who indwelt them as a corporate body at Corinth.

The same issue of division is the subject of 1 Cor. 12-14 over spiritual gifts as it was over baptismal administrators. They thought some gifts and gifted members were more important than others. However, it is the same Spirit that gifted each member for the Spirit's specific purpose for that member in regard to the edicaiton of the whole body. No member is unimportant, no gift is unimportant as there is ONE Spirit behind the gifting and behind each member as ONE metaphorical body of Christ designed to meet the needs of each other and the ministry at Corinth - 1 Cor. 12:27.

However, I don't expect you to understand this much less agree with it.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

If you were open to the truth and not biased, perhaps I could help you understand.
Have you seen my chart re: the 14 passages concerning the baptism with the Holy Spirit?

Note:
Your 1 Cor 12:13 specifies the Spirit does the baptizing into the church (i.e. at salvation).
The 4 gospels specify that Jesus does the baptizing with the Holy Spirit.
Your ONLY chance to get this revelation knowledge is if you are open to the truth.
Most here are not.
.

I am not biased. When I was a near-atheist at 19, I went on an objective search for truth. This lead me to study all the world's religions, formally and informally. My conclusions are based on scripture, scholarship, church history, secular history and philosophy, linguistics, theology, denominational history and doctrine. I have been open to the truth for 45 years. It is all I've wanted. I am firmly convinced that Pentecostalism is gross error and distortion of the scriptures. It divides Christians into "haves" and have nots", promotes pride and arrogance, and does great and sometimes irreparable harm. I have seen it firsthand. And that is the truth.

 

[evangelist-7]

1 Cor 12:13
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.”

I don't believe water has to be around anywhere for one to be baptized by the Spirit into the church!

You think no one has ever been born-again without being water baptized?
Don't bother answering ... for I couldn't care less.

Paul said, “Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Corinthians 1:17).
It's out of context, but I like it anyway!
Scripture says we are justified by faith alone, not by works (Romans 4:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-9).

But, I'm not going to waste time arguing about it.
.

 

[awaken]

That is easy.
Your interpretation is wrong. Period.
You have been posting errant doctrine since you have come here.
Much of what you post is plain heresy not based on the Bible at all.
It is based on experience, simple shallow emotions that are left open to demonic activity.

Your opinion is noted! But incorrect!

 

[awaken]

You did not answer the question, and I am not surprised. You have no comprehension or discernment.

None of the three positions I outlined are in accord with scripture. To say that not all believers have the HS baptism is a lie. 1 Cor. 12:13 proves that.

Who said I agree 100% of any of the ones mentioned! I did answer the question! You just do not like my answer!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Who said I agree 100% of any of the ones mentioned! I did answer the question! You just do not like my answer!

You rarely answer the question(s) posed. Your comprehension and forthrightness is lacking, to be charitable.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

wrong thread <snipped>

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

THis has made some sense to me except I have a problem with this and Acts 8 and 19 can you explain those two?

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. ... When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit." (Acts 8:12-17)

It seems to me the water baptism took place first here! I do not see the water baptism repeated after they received the Holy Spirit.

"While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all." (Acts 19:1-7)

They were baptized just like the apostles in water at John's baptism. I do not see where the apostles were rebaptized in water after they received the Holy Spirit in Acts 2.

Philip was the apostolic deputy who let him be prescribed by a slave how to baptise. It wasn't good enough for the slave to believe the Scriptures and understand it through the preaching of the Scriptures; no, he insisted on water-baptism in addition to having received faith unto complete salvation.

Here again it is Philip who took his own course. It is a pity the apostles did not rebuke him. They only refuted his error with applying the true baptism of Jesus Christ which is to be baptized in the NAME of God through exclusively the APOSTLES' preaching of the Word of God. So real sanctioned apostles, repaired the damage Philip caused.

Water baptism is not the baptism of Jesus, never has been; never will be. "ONE baptism" : the baptism of Jesus which saves once for ever WITHOUT THE WORKS OF MAN'S OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

 

[The Biblicist]

Philip was the apostolic deputy who let him be prescribed by a slave how to baptise. It wasn't good enough for the slave to believe the Scriptures and understand it through the preaching of the Scriptures; no, he insisted on water-baptism in addition to having received faith unto complete salvation.

Here again it is Philip who took his own course. It is a pity the apostles did not rebuke him. They only refuted his error with applying the true baptism of Jesus Christ which is to be baptized in the NAME of God through exclusively the APOSTLES' preaching of the Word of God. So real sanctioned apostles, repaired the damage Philip caused.

Water baptism is not the baptism of Jesus, never has been; never will be. "ONE baptism" : the baptism of Jesus which saves once for ever WITHOUT THE WORKS OF MAN'S OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

This whole comment is absurdly rediculous and unbiblical. The baptism in the Great Commission is the kind that those identified as "ye" can administer to those identified as "them." It is water baptism and it is commissioned by Christ to the "end of the age." This is not merely the apostolic age, but the end of the world as preaching the gospel is given the same extent of commission and Jesus says it will be preached to the "end" of the world (Mt. 24:14).

The "baptism in the Spirit" is spelled out in clear language over and over again throughout the gospels right up before its actual historical fulfillment (Acts 1:5) on the day of Pentecost. Afterwards it is spelled out with the same terms "baptism in the Spirit" when looking back at Pentecost and what happened at the house of Corneilius. The house of Corneilius was viewed by Peter and the apostles as an EXCEPTION to the rule that it had been fulfilled on Pentecost. The nearest reference point for this event at the house of Cornelius was "AT the beginning" or Pentecost. After Acts 11:15-17 the language of "baptism in the Spirit" IS NEVER FOUND AGAIN IN SCRIPTURE!

If the baptism in the Spirit was what Pentecostals (2nd work of grace necessary for all beleivers to be spiritual) or what Protestants (simeltaneous with regeneration putting one in the mystical body of Christ) teach then we should find the same precise langauge used all through the Gospels and in the book of Acts up to Acts 11 throughout all the epistles as one of the most essential doctrines in scripture BUT WE DO NOT!

There is NOW but "ONE BAPTISM" and it is not Spirit baptism but water baptism as that is the only baptism commissioned until the end of the world.

 

[Yeshua1]

1 Cor 12:13
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.”

I don't believe water has to be around anywhere for one to be baptized by the Spirit into the church!

You think no one has ever been born-again without being water baptized?
Don't bother answering ... for I couldn't care less.

Paul said, “Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Corinthians 1:17).
It's out of context, but I like it anyway!
Scripture says we are justified by faith alone, not by works (Romans 4:1-8, Ephesians 2:8-9).

But, I'm not going to waste time arguing about it.
.

Kewy word is ALL received same HS, same experience, so your understanding is NOT in the Bible!

 

[Yeshua1]

This whole comment is absurdly rediculous and unbiblical. The baptism in the Great Commission is the kind that those identified as "ye" can administer to those identified as "them." It is water baptism and it is commissioned by Christ to the "end of the age." This is not merely the apostolic age, but the end of the world as preaching the gospel is given the same extent of commission and Jesus says it will be preached to the "end" of the world (Mt. 24:14).

The "baptism in the Spirit" is spelled out in clear language over and over again throughout the gospels right up before its actual historical fulfillment (Acts 1:5) on the day of Pentecost. Afterwards it is spelled out with the same terms "baptism in the Spirit" when looking back at Pentecost and what happened at the house of Corneilius. The house of Corneilius was viewed by Peter and the apostles as an EXCEPTION to the rule that it had been fulfilled on Pentecost. The nearest reference point for this event at the house of Cornelius was "AT the beginning" or Pentecost. After Acts 11:15-17 the language of "baptism in the Spirit" IS NEVER FOUND AGAIN IN SCRIPTURE!

If the baptism in the Spirit was what Pentecostals (2nd work of grace necessary for all beleivers to be spiritual) or what Protestants (simeltaneous with regeneration putting one in the mystical body of Christ) teach then we should find the same precise langauge used all through the Gospels and in the book of Acts up to Acts 11 throughout all the epistles as one of the most essential doctrines in scripture BUT WE DO NOT!

There is NOW but "ONE BAPTISM" and it is not Spirit baptism but water baptism as that is the only baptism commissioned until the end of the world.

my understanding is the baptism jesus spoke of was JSUT to his Apostles/disciples, and that at pentacostthat eventhappened to fulfill His commandto wait for the HS to come in that fashion, but that now we all have theinfilling aspect of the HS commanded to abide in, and that we are water baptized to identify as saved by Jesus as messiah/Lord?

 

[The Biblicist]

my understanding is the baptism jesus spoke of was JSUT to his Apostles/disciples, and that at pentacostthat eventhappened to fulfill His commandto wait for the HS to come in that fashion, but that now we all have theinfilling aspect of the HS commanded to abide in, and that we are water baptized to identify as saved by Jesus as messiah/Lord?

Your are much closer to the truth than the rest. The Old Testament background proves it is the divine accreditation of a new house of God. It occurred once with the tabernacle (Ex. 40), once with the temple (2 Chron. 7)and once with the church (Acts 2:1-3).

The technical phrase "baptism in the Holy Spirit" occurs consistently up to Acts 11:17. It is never once found in the epistles. The filling or "walking in" the Spirit is an Old and New Testament experience.

 

[Yeshua1]

Your are much closer to the truth than the rest. The Old Testament background proves it is the divine accreditation of a new house of God. It occurred once with the tabernacle (Ex. 40), once with the temple (2 Chron. 7)and once with the church (Acts 2:1-3).

The technical phrase "baptism in the Holy Spirit" occurs consistently up to Acts 11:17. It is never once found in the epistles. The filling or "walking in" the Spirit is an Old and New Testament experience.

What is odd is that we have no records from history that the early Church leaders felt that the sign Gifts of the Apsotles were passed unto them, not that the church was expected to continue in them, yet the modern Charasmatic movement assumes 1905 relauched that back into the Church?

they did not record either that they practiced the experience of the after salvation"baptism in HG", correct?

 

[Rob Morley]

At the baptism in the Holy Spirit we are saved, by being regenerated, renewed, and justified. In other words, salvation with regeneration, renewal and justification occurs when we are baptized in the Holy Spirit. Take a look:
Titus 3:5-7: ‘5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Rob Morley]

In the New Testament, the term 'on' or 'upon' associated with the initial receiving and infilling of the promised Holy Spirit at salvation. This is the baptism with the Spirit who is poured on all believers and who then infills, regenerates, indwells and empowers each of them. Thereafter, the disciples are only ever seen to be filled again with the Holy Spirit, not baptized again with the Spirit. Similarly, having been saved when the Spirit was poured on us, we are instructed to be continually filled. See Titus 3:5-7, Ephesians 5:18