Featured Baptism in the Holy Spirit

And you base this on what scripture???

 

John, if any add or subtarct from the prophecy of this book, know that specifi referred to revelation, but also can apply to the entire Bible!

 

When is a word of wisdom, knowledge or prophecy adding to the Word?

 

These gifts were revelatory gifts, for use in the first century only when the Word of God was not yet complete. They took the place of the uncompleted Word of God. But when the Word of God was completed they ceased. There was no more need for "revelatory knowledge," for the completed, inspired Word of God was now in the hands of the people.

 

I do not know what Bible you are reading! But my Bible says they will cease when we come face to face and know as we are known!

 

You don't understand your Bible very well.
1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
You come face to face with yourself, every time you look into the Bible, and allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the sin in your life.

 

1 John 3:2 describes it different!
Do you know even as you are known? NO!

 

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

It is obvious that the above verse is speaking of seeing Christ. We shall be like him.
That is not what 1Cor.13:12 is speaking about.
When we look into the Word of God we see ourselves face to face just as when we look into a mirror, and we see ourselves just as we are known, or as the Spirit reveals us to ourselves. The answer is yes, as long as you are open to what the Holy Spirit is telling you through the Word of God.

James uses the same illustration:
James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

God's Word is the mirror in the above picture (the perfect law of liberty)

 

DHK is correct. When we look into the mirror of God's Word, we will know ourselves as the Word of God knows us.

1 Corinthians 13:12 is speaking of the written Word of God... that which reveals man's nature to man.

 

See! That is how you interprete it! I do not see that...I see that when we are face to face with Jesus we will not need the gifts! We will know as we are known! You leave out the last part! We do not know as we are known!

 

"Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." (1 Corinthians 13:12)

This does not describe the completion of the New Testament, because the New Testament was completed almost two thousand years ago and yet we still do not "know fully, even as [we are] fully known." Having a complete New Testament has not caused us to have a full, complete knowledge of God nor has it caused us to individually become "fully known" to one another.

Scholars say that Paul was martyred in 64 or 68 A.D., but there are several books of the New Testament which scholars believe were written after Paul died: Hebrews in 68 or 69 A.D., Jude somewhere between 67 A.D. and 80 A.D., the Gospel of John somewhere between 85 A.D. and 95 A.D., and Revelation, which many scholars agree was written in 95 or 96 A.D. In addition, the first formal list of New Testament books was not compiled until roughly 75 years after Paul's death (The History of Christianity, Dr. Tim Dowley, p.106), and the New Testament was not actually completed in its final form for another 250 years or so after that (The History of Christianity, Dr. Tim Dowley, p.205).

Paul said, "when perfection comes...then I shall know fully" (1 Corinthians 13:12). Some people believe that this "perfection" refers to the completion of the New Testament, but Paul did not live to see the completion of the New Testament. Paul's use of the word "perfection" cannot be a reference to the completed New Testament because that would contradict his statement that he himself would "know fully" when perfection comes.

 

Notice that the gift of tongues will cease of itself (v. 8) prior to the revelatory gifts of "knowledge" and "prophecy" (v. 9). What brings these other two revelatory gifts to a conclusion is that which is "perfect" (v. 10). Paul uses the neuter rather than the masculine so it is not referring to any person. It is referring to what completes, finishes revelatory gifts. The New Testament Scriptures as predicted in Isaiah 8:16-18.

Second, notice that verse 11-12 are analogies used by Paul simply to confirm what verses 9-10 have stated. The first is the analogy of maturity while the second is an analogy of ancient mirrors made of polished brass. Also note the distinction between "now" and "then."

At the time of writing ("now" time of the apostles) the New Testament was not completed and these immature gifts provided instruction for New Testament churches.

However, "then" when the New Testament was completed it would be sufficient for all doctrine and teaching for the man of God (2 Tim. 3:16-17).

The analogy of the mirror was currently used ("now") and one could see themselves ("now") but not as clear as if others looking at them "now" or as clear if they could look at themselves through their own eyes "now." Likewise, these immature revelatory gifts provided an incomplete revelation "now." In reality such gifts were IMMATURE revelations because they were (1) restricted to only some (1 Cor. 12:29-30) and (2) made others dependent upon those who were gifted for such revelation. However, when the completed ("perfect" = fulfilled) scriptures arrive, "then" all members will be on equal basis as the same revelation will be available to all equally.

When the New Testament Scriptures were competed they would furnish a mature and reflect a more clear revelation "then" when completed.

The Corinthians were boasting that such revelatory gifts made those gifted more spiritual than those who did not receive such revelatory gifts. They operated these gifts not according to love but according to boastful pride (1 Cor. 13:1-7).

However, "now" even without the more MATURE and more CLEAR revelation of inspired New Testament Scripture, it is the fruit of the Spirit that defines maturity ("love, faith and hope") rather than gifts of the Spirit (v. 13).

 

It could also be referring to an action by a person like the return of Christ.

 

Whenever Paul speaks of the return of Christ he always spells it out and in a context that makes it clear. Paul also uses special terms to describe His coming and I think you will never find this expression used in any second coming passage.

Moreover, the issue is spiritual maturity not sinless perfection. 1 John 3:1-2 speaks of sinless perfection.

Furthermore, 1 Cor. 13:8-10 and 1 Cor. 14:20-22 both restrict these revelatory gifts to a present limited design. 1 Cor. 13:8 declares the gift of tongues will cease of itself prior to the other two gifts (v. 9-10). 1 Cor. 14:20-22 declares that tongues has a specific and limited design as a "sign" gift for the Jewish people in regard to the Messiah (Isa. 28:11-15). It is for "this people" that have Jerusalem as its capital. Paul predicts Israel will reject this sign and what the consequence will be - destruction in A.D. 70. Hence, the divine design for tongues ceases of itself.

Isaiah 8:16-20 is a Messianic prediction and refers to the first century disciples of Christ that are used to bind up and seal the written word of God. These disciples are confirmed by signs and wonders (Heb. 2:4-5, 11-12). Such sign gifts are apostolic in nature (2 Cor. 12:12) and received through the laying on of their hands (Acts 6; 8:15-17; 19:6; Rom. 1:11, etc.).

As long as the revelatory gifts of "knowledge" and "prophecy" remain there can be no binding up and sealing of prophetic revelation. Isiah 8:16-20 demands the cessation of such revelatory gifts in the apostolic era.

 

I dont know how else to say this, so what?

Who suggested otherwise?

 

In other words, you have made up your mind to believe it refers to the second coming and no amount of evidence to the contrary will turn you!

Fine! Believe what you like!

 

Getting back to the OP, I want to address this to Awaken:

Being a church historian, I'll put forth the following: There are three distinct groupings of denominations who teach a separate Holy Spirit baptism, apart from conversion: The group to whose beliefs you adhere, call them the "Baptist Pentecostals/Charismatics", because they were influenced by and largely came out of Baptist backgrounds; this includes groups such as the Assembly of God, which our member here, Yeshua, was a part of. This group believes in two distinct and separate "works of grace": conversion and a later HS baptism evidenced by speaking in tongues. These are "two experience" or "second blessing/tongues" Pentecostals.

Then there are the "three experience" or "three blessing/tongues" Pentecostals represented by such groups as the Church of God headquartered in Cleveland, TN. This group was influenced by and came out of the Wesleyan/Methodist/Holiness churches, and thus they believe in three distinct and separate works of grace: conversion, then later an instantaneous entire sanctification, and then finally HS baptism with evidence of tongues. This group believes explicitly that the HS baptism evidenced by tongues CANNOT occur unless one has first experienced entire sanctification with the heart made pure by cleansing from all inbred original sin. The Assembly of God, on the other hand, denies this, coming from a Baptist background, and holding that sanctification is progressive and NOT an instantaneous second blessing or work of grace.

Then there are the Holiness bodies, represented by the Church of the Nazarene, the Salvation Army, and the Church of God (Anderson, Indiana), which believe in two distinct and separate works of grace: conversion and then later an instantaneous entire sanctification in which the heart is made pure by cleansing from all inbred original sin. Now these groups call this second blessing or work of grace the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but here is the interesting part: they explicitly deny the speaking in tongues! In fact, early on, the Church of the Nazarene was called "The Pentecostal Church of the Nazarene", but they dropped the word "Pentecostal" from their name so as not to make people think they affirmed speaking in tongues, which they explicitly disavowed and still do to this day!

So, which of these groups is correct in their definition of the Holy Spirit baptism: The Assembly of God which believes in two works of grace: conversion and later HS baptism with evidence of tongues; the Church of God (Cleveland, TN), which believes three works of grace: conversion, later instantaneous entire sanctification, and still later HS baptism with evidence of tongues; or the Church of the Nazarene which believes in two works of grace: conversion, and later HS baptism which they equate to instantaneous entire sanctification?

Which is right? They can't all be right. And yet each group claims to base their beliefs on scripture. You belong to the first group. How do you know that your group is right and the other two are wrong?

 

I do not base my doctrine on other religions! It is plain in scriptures that the Holy Spirit UPON is different than the Holy Spirit WITHIN! Can it happen all at once, Yes! But they are still two different works of the Holy Spirit!

 

Re: post #137 ... I belong to the first group ... our experiences agree 100% with Scripture.
Groups 2 and 3 are out of their minds ... I say this as gently as possible.
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That is easy.
Your interpretation is wrong. Period.
You have been posting errant doctrine since you have come here.
Much of what you post is plain heresy not based on the Bible at all.
It is based on experience, simple shallow emotions that are left open to demonic activity.