Featured Lies About John Calvin Refuted

I'll stand with you here. You are absolutely correct and said get a pass for such behavior on BB.

It's good to see another brother who unabashedly speaks the truth. May God continue to bless you abundantly.

 

He doesn't set forth the truth. He sets forth an emotional tie to an historical man, now dead, and refuses to see the facts for what they are. That is sad.
From another source:

--Monsters should be smothered (probably Baptists included here)
--Servetus suffered the death penalty due to his heresies?? (That is like disagree with me and you will die?
--Arrogance destroyed him? (Shall we kill all who are arrogant on this board?)
--They owe him a debt of gratitude for having purged the Church! (Who is the arrogant one??

Rippon doesn't want to face the facts. According to Wikipedia:

So, yes, he was forced out of the city. I never said he wasn't at an earlier date.
To read on in Wikipedia:

In that year was 1536. The council resisted him. He and Farel were expelled. However, look at the last statement: He was eventually invited back to lead its church (the reform movement in Geneva).

The next section of his history, which I have already previously quoted in this thread deals with the heavy hand of his rule from the years 1541-1549 where he institutes his reforms in complete disregard of the City Council. The Council could not stop him; he had greater power and authority than they did. He was unto himself his own law.
He made the law, and he executed even to the extent of severe persecution--persecution unto death which is murder.
Those are the facts.

 

In truth Servetus was only a transient in Geneva (note he was not a citizen)subject to the laws of Geneva therefore the Council could not do anything legally but ban him. When they saw him that day attending a church service, it was Calvin who ordered the arrest, it was Calvin that drew up the indictments & it was Calvin who took an active role in the trial & it was Calvin that was his chief accuser. And Calvin was also the guy who petitioned the other Swiss churches to give their opinion of what to do with Servetus. Note that they all advised MS condemnation but none his execution. Clearly & if nothing else, Calvin greatly influenced the court toward execution. Need we go any further with this?

 

I agree with you. In fact Calvin "intervened." He didn't want him to burn at the stake. He would have rather seen him beheaded instead.
The fact remains--as great as influence as Calvin had, he promoted the execution, and did nothing to stop it.

But that was not the real issue here. The thread is about the entire demeanor of Calvin, not just his encounter with one man--but with the entire community. In fact he murdered many.

A girl was beheaded for striking her parents.

A banker was executed for repeated adultery.

Men and women were burnt to death for witchcraft.

The above have been quoted countless of times already. They are from Shaff's Church History, chapter 8. Rippon refuses to acknowledge it.

Here is another interesting tidbit which shows Calvin's attitude toward the Baptists:

 

So how did it escalate from a trial where at most a non citizen is banished to a full scale execution?

I suggest that Calvin's agenda all along had been one to show the world that both he (and Geneva) could be tough on heretics so this guy was dead before he ever set foot into court. Servetus had provoked him repeatedly so Calvin felt the necessity to be extreme.....I said extreme, not tolerant. In short, Calvin conspired with Catholics & Protestants alike to approve the death sentence. He never completely cut himself away from those people even though he gave the impression of complete separation. He could not even stand up to Farel regarding providing mercy by beheading rather than burning, even though he felt that the beheading to be the right thing to do. From my prospective, he was a poor excuse for a representative of Christ......both now & back in the day. Bottom line, Calvin wanted him dead, he pushed for his execution & he should bear responsibility for the murder of a mentally dysfunctional individual...... not a murderer, not a child molester, not even a thief. Just a poor unfortunate schlub who happened to be at the wrong place at the time when the egotists felt the need to spill blood.

How do you defend that Rippon..... that is the primary question here?

 

Discernment? You are like the atheist who only uses atheistic sources.
Then when an author gives an "opinion" you quote the "opinion" but refuse to look at the actual facts that the same author quotes. You have no discernment at all. In fact what you have done here is called hypocrisy.

All ad hominems are not recognized in debate as you have here. They are the mark of the person who has nothing left to say but diatribe. He attacks the person because he cannot present any facts on the subject. Poor you.

Unteachable is the right word. If you were teachable you would give some substance to your post and then verify it. You give emotionally charged posts that have no substance whatsoever. I am sure all who read these posts recognize this immediately.
The links I give verify that they are truthful. They verify the facts that I say. You simply deny, deny, deny.

 

I clearly said between the years 1541 and 1549. Learn to read. It was during this time (1541-1549) that he made his greatest reforms. Why don't you address what I actually posted instead of a different part of his life?

Deny, deny, deny. You offer your opinion of history, but can't back it up. Who is going to believe that?

More ad hominem. Who is going to believe you? Now you are calling me a liar. But I am the one that have given you the links to the truth. You have given me nothing.

BTW, I will call a spade a spade.
I have one in my back yard, in the shed. It is used for digging holes. Some use it for digging the hole for an outhouse--where your unsubstantiated opinions belong.

 

Your opinion; where is your documentation?

You are the one untruthful here. One doesn't have to be a citizen if he is the dictator. He simply claims the power, as he did, and he did. I already gave you the link for that information. If you have a link providing different information other than your unsubstantiated information then provide it. Otherwise don't fill the board up with your emotional ignorance.

I verify the facts of history; you don't give any verification of the truthfulness of your sentimental emotionalism.

 

Calvin was not the "one in charge." He didn't "pull the trigger." But of all the men in the city, he had the greatest influence, and that influence held great sway. In fact he could have saved that man's life, but he wanted him dead. He used his influence for evil and not for good. Accept it.

Or, contrariwise, the establishment of the truth of the life of Calvin--things you don't want to admit.

There is no doubt he had his following. No one can deny that. An entire religion resulted from it. It was a state-church.
However, what good has ever come out of a state-church?
Have you ever heard of "Bloody Mary Tudor, Queen of England"? Hers was a state church?
So was King Henry the VIII's church, so well known for his immorality. I want; I will get it--so says Henry.
Wasn't the great persecution and imprisonment of John Bunyan done under the state church of the Church of England? It was a sin to preach without being licensed by the state.

I am not telling lies, but your ad hominems fill this board.

A dictator does as he pleases. He acted without the authority of the Council. You don't read well, or ignore what is posted.
Yes, Shaff denounced what Calvin did. Why don't you read it for yourself.

Schaff was a historian. He was able to separate opinion from history. He was able to be objective. You cannot do this. Your emotions are tied to objectivity in such a way that objectivity has gone down the drain and everything is subjective--relative to your emotions.
Shaff was still able to establish history, no matter how evil it was, in spite of his own opinions of the man.

 

John, I am not ignoring your request on the NPP. I have been on vacation in Florida and just got back in town. I participate in spurts on the BB, so I will address your request this week.

Thanks.