Featured Abstract faith??

No, you don't understand! I don't teach your version of Calvinism. Neither does my friend believe in your version of Calvinism.

We teach that election is not merely of the person but of the means as well and that election is known by how the gospel comes to a person in a life changing experience producing a new creation, true repentance or change from one direction to a totally different direction.

What has challenged my friend is not his initial salvation but his present void of experiencing God's presence in prayer. His doubts are about himself in regard to the lack of experiential awareness of God's presence rather than whether he was an elect or not. This type of problem transcends Calvinism but can be found among your own Arminian ranks - it is a common experiential problem that is generated by the PRESENT circumstances rather thant the PAST initial salvation experience.

What is amazing is your arrogance to presume omniscience in something you know nothing about but rather have taken a few words that I have stated but in a context that denies the very way you pervert them. That is what is amazing!

However, in struggling to express his experiential difficulty to you and others on the forum, I finally put a finger on it. So in spite of what you attempted to do, the Lord overruled your vicious attempts for the good of my friend.

 

I speculated about many things it could be (his childhood lack of parental love, inability to relate). From the beginning I denied it was on a doctrinal level. From the beginning I asserted it was an experiential problem centered in his prayer life when he faced God alone. In that area of his life he could not sense the love of God or His presence which gave rise to the struggle to beleive he was the object of redemptive love. He never could deny God or any truth of God's Word but simply denied himself due to his experientical problem in his prayer life. So the problem is found in his prayer life as he comes to God and the root of his problem is experiential, lack of sensing God's presence and love, which in turn produced the inability to believe He was the object of God's redeeming love. Now that in a nutshell is the story I presented, althoug admittedly I was trying to work it out myself and that is why I brought it on line.

You enter the picture claiming you know the problem better than anyone else as though your were his closest friend and had first hand knowledge. Indeed, you know my friend so well, that you can charge me with misrepresentation of his real issues. Even more astounding, now you know the situation so thoroughly you can now accuse of me telling one story at the beginning and now changing the story at the end. Utterly amazing! When are we to gather to worship you?

 

Yes, I will ask the moderator to shut down this thread as your hatred knows no bounds and nothing good can come in what you have to say or continuing to answer your rants.

 

BTW I will see my friend tomorrow at church and I will apply what I think may be the solution and see if that helps and will report to you. Yes, even for Winman's sake I will ask if this problem arose from any kind of struggle with the doctrine of unconditional election (even though he has never raised that)or is it related to a struggle of personal relationship that originated in his prayer life .

 

Unfortunately the turn of events yesterday did not afford any opportunity to discuss this issue with my friend. The sensitive nature of the issue is not just something I can just barge into apart from proper circumstances.

 

I have since had a chance to correspond with my friend and ask him directly and bluntly if the doctrine of unconditional election was the source/cause/issue that brought him to doubt his salvation. His answer was a definite no! Again, he repeated that it was due to his prayer life in connection with some things he had not previously shared with me. There were adverse circumstances continuing over a prolonged period of time that he could not reconcile in his own mind plus the silence of God in regard to his prayers.

I shared my thoughts on the reasons for the "silence" of God in the believer's life plus more importantly what are the evidences of a personal fellowship with God using 1 Jn. 1:1-7. I think this latter aspect helped him greatly and he seems to be on the mend or so it seems and so I hope.

 

My oh my! When I think a person could not stoop lower than he already has a new low occurs. I feel sorry for you.