Featured T - Total Depravity

Here Calvinism redefines what being dead in our sins means. To be spiritually dead means to be separated from God. Thus, if we are together with God we are alive. Now when we were dead, i.e. separated from God we were in a sinful state. God is holy and therefore nothing unholy can be with God. We could do nothing to obtain the righteousness of God, i.e. to become holy and blameless and righteous, because all our works of righteousness were as filthy rags.

But what Calvinism does is add to this biblical truth, and say not only are we unable to reconcile ourselves to God, we are unable to desire reconciliation or the righteousness of God.

They take the verse, "no one seeks God" (Romans 3:11) and add to it "at any time." However the Bible is clear no one seeks God when they are sinning, and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Thus all men, both the Jews and Gentiles are under sin. Therefore by the works of the Law, no flesh will be justified.

So the actual Biblical doctrine is limited spiritual ability, we can understand the milk of the gospel, but may not accept it fully. And by the practice of sin, we can harden ourselves to the point we lose our ability to understand the gospel, like the first soil of Matthew 13.

 

It is really pointless to debate with someone who repudiates the plain explicit statements of scripture as you do.

1. There is NONE that seeketh after God VS your interpretation that there are only SOME that do not seek after God - Psa. 14:2, Rom. 3:12,19-20 "all the world....every mouth"

2. NO MAN CAN come to me VS your interpretaton that there are just SOME that cannot.

3. Romans 3:9-18 is concerning all Jews and Gentiles or "ALL THE WORLD" and "EVERY MOUTH" (vv. 19-20) vS your interpetation that it merely refers to SOME.

4. Romans 8:7-8 is concerning all "in the flesh" VS your interpretation that it refers to only some "in the flesh"

5. Romans 8:7 "not subject.....neither indeed can be" vs your interpretation that it can be subject and can be.

Your whole basis of interpretation is explaining away the scriptures that directly and explicitly oppose your views or pitting scriptures against scriptures. So it is pointless to debate you.

 

So much for having a civil discussion.

 

Thank you...I have no interest in dialog with these people. Let them consider us heretical.

 

What's the point?

 

So you believe man to be carnal?

 

I mean both.

 

For Gas & s, here is a paper on Total Depravity the wolf pack can rip to shreds & feed on.....have fun :laugh:

http://gracebbc.dyndns.org:81/jdtotdep.html

 

I am not a Calvinist but I hold to Total Depravity.

I disagree that it was necessarily decreed by God. Their view of God's sovereignty is problematic.

 

OK, let me clarify.....could a person "think" he is a Christian (operating off that premise) but not be a real believer? So you know, I believe that most people who walk around all day telling you they are Christian, fall under that category.....what I'd call a carnal state, they are aptly labeled carnal Christians.

 

Yet you continue to do so. Go figure.

 

Old habits die hard I'm afraid. I should watch the Giants, loose:BangHead:

 

Let me guess. You think we emphasize God's sovereignty and minimize man's responsibility? Actually we promote both. But I don't see how any Christian has the right to minimize the biblical understanding of the sovereignty of God.