Featured Infants in Heaven

Well, if they do not trust in Jesus, their just punishment is hell.

But how does a newborn child trust in Jesus? Or how does a stillborn baby or an aborted baby trust in Jesus?

Now, I don't have a problem, because I don't believe that babies are sinners at all.

But YOU do. So, it is not for me to answer, this question is for YOU to answer.

 

What most probably are not aware of, Winman espouses some sort of non-Christian perverted doctrine that 99 out of 100 don't sin and have no need of The Saviour.

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He should have been banned from this board long ago.

 

So what about you Winman? Have you ever been a 'wicked sinner' in need of a saviour? Or are you one of those 99 who have never sinned?

 

I think you are completely misrepresenting Winman here. I only hope it is not intentional. Winman simply does not accept, for many, the status quo of "original sin". Many in the domain of christianity have a different take than the "western church" on the issue.

 

Then Winman needs to step forward, speak for himself, and squash the misconception now.

My perception is that he holds that that there are those who never sin.

Come forth Winman, tell me I'm wrong.

 

I believe that a baby who dies has never sinned, yes.

I do not believe anybody who reaches the age where they understand right from wrong has ever, or will ever fail to sin except Jesus Christ.

But a newborn baby has not sinned.

Tell me, what sins has your granddaughter committed?

 

It's intentional. Calvinism DEPENDS on Original Sin, it is sunk without it.

And yes, many hundreds of millions of Christians in church history have rejected Original Sin, including many of the earliest Baptists.

They should, it is false doctrine.

 

Thank you.

OK

None now, but it won't be long....

 

While I share with you that I am not in the "calvinist" camp. I am not nearly as tenacious as you are. Thank you for that tenacity.

 

The body cannot sin, the body can only tempt. Jesus came in the flesh and was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

If having a body that tempts us is sinful, then Jesus would have been sinful.

The body cannot sin, the body can only tempt. It is when a man chooses to obey his body when it violates one of God's laws that a man sins.

 

Original Sin is the worst and most evil doctrine that has EVER corrupted the church. It has led to many other false doctrines like baptismal regeneration, the Immaculate Conception, and yes, CALVINISM. Many thousands, perhaps millions of Christians have died because of this false doctrine.

But the worst error is that it denies that Jesus truly came in the flesh. The Bible specifically warns about this error.

1 Jhn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

 

My bold above!

Winman,
That is very close to the definition of the Inherited Sin which is used by some instead of Original Sin.

Scripture tells us that all sin which leads to the conclusion that all inherit the nature to sin consistent with what the Apostle Paul tells us in Romans 5:12.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

That statement shows just how ignorant you are of the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace. It really is a pathetic shame Winman!

 

Primitive Baptists:

"We believe in the doctrine of original sin, and that all of Adam’s posterity are sinners by nature, and that they have neither will nor power to deliver themselves from their condemned state."

I believe tee totally in that. That is a very necessary anchor to understand the entire theme of redemption as presented in the scriptures.

How in the world you come to such a hare brained conclusion as this is beyond me, you've gone off the deep end.

 

I believe all men who reach the age of accountability will freely choose to sin.

They do not HAVE to sin, but they certainly will. That is where we differ.

Man is born into a wicked world surrounded by thousands of temptations. His own lusts tempt him and he is surrounded by many sinful influences.

It is not surprising to me whatsoever that all men sin, what is surprising and incredible to me is that Jesus could live 33 years as a man and not sin!

 

No, people will say that Jesus did not get and feel the same temptations we do, I have seen many here on BB say that many times. That is absolutely false doctrine, these persons are denying that Jesus came in the flesh. Jesus was tempted in ALL POINTS as we are, yet without sin.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Scripture says Jesus could "feel" the weakness of our flesh just as we do.

Now this is what most folks call the "sin nature", this tug and pull of our body and mind to sin. Jesus felt all of these passions or lusts.

It is not these lusts that make us evil, it is when we CHOOSE TBEY these lusts that we become evil. Jesus never did this. But he felt them just as strongly as you and I, perhaps far more.

 

You are correct Jesus the Christ came in the flesh.

What does that mean? Well it means that Jesus was made a little lower than the angels, for the very purpose to be able to die. Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death,
We will come back to that.

But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; Heb 2:6-7 Why?

So that he would be subject to death. That man was Adam and he was created flesh and blood , with temporary life by the spirit of the breath of life breathed into his nostrils, transferred to his blood in the lungs. The life, which is the soul BTW, of the flesh is in the blood. Lev 17:11 The Christ would pour out his soul unto death. He did this when he said, Father into your hands I commend my spirit. The life returned to the Father, God who had given it, when he was conceived in the virgin Mary and she brought him forth to breath on his own. Jesus the Christ the Son of the living God was dead. The very death that came to Adam when he was 730 years old because he had been cut off from the tree of life when he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The same death assigned to Adam for sin came to the sinless Christ by way of the flesh after he had lived about thirty three years. Christ died for us. He also died for Adam. Jesus the Christ was obedient unto that death, no one took his life. He gave his life. It was not an easy thing for him to do. He even asked his Father if there was any other way, nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.Matt 26:39 He went to the disciples and they were asleep and he returned again to the spot of prayer still in agony over dying, even sweated drops of blood Luke 22:44 and prayed a second time Matt 26:42 saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Heb 5:7,8 says through this he learned obedience. Phil 2:8 says he became obedient unto death.

It was not cut and dried. That is the reason the promise of God made before time begin was, the hope of eternal life, the promise made when it was foreordained for the Christ as of a lamb without spot or blemish would shed his blood for redemption.

Had the Christ not learned and become obedient unto death even the death of the cross, because he was made a little lower than the angels, he would have died but he would not have died for our sin but for his disobedience, and his Father would not have given him the promise of God.

Faith would not have come and we would be dead and or die in the flesh in our sins, never to see life again.

To enter, see, and or inherit the kingdom of God the living soul Adam, flesh and blood, would have to be born again. He would have to become as the last Adam who was made quickening Spirit, however (Speaking of Jesus the Christ)
that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1 Cor 15:44,45

Without being obedient unto death and being resurrected from the dead Jesus the Christ would not have become spiritual, a quickening Spirit.

Adam brought death to all men including the Christ.

Through the resurrected Christ life can be given to all men.

BTW death was appointed to all men before the foundation of the world being it was foreordained at that time the Christ would die.

Afterwards the judgement.

All flesh and blood, from the youngest to the oldest; All.


And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Phil 3:9

Does your believing something bring that righteousness or does it come by the obedient shedding of the blood of the Christ, as of a lamb without spot and without blemish?

 

1.Why do men "freely choose" to sin.

1.If man does not "have to sin" why does he "freely choose" to sin?

Scripture tells that everything God made was "good"!

1.Why is man born into a "wicked" world?
2.What is the source of mans lusts?
3.Does all mankind possess those lusts?
4.If so why?

When you understand why Jesus Christ did not sin perhaps you will come to understand the Doctrine of Original or Inherited Sin?

 

You would have to ask the man himself. I can only answer for myself.

Honestly, have you ever been absolutely compelled to sin? Did someone stick a gun to your head and threaten to kill you unless you sinned?

I have sinned innumerable times in my life, and there are times when I might have a pretty good excuse or reason to do the wrong thing, but truth is, I could have always done the right thing. No one or no thing has forced me to sin.

How about you?

Actually, it says "very" good. :tongue3:

Well, since Adam's time men have continued to sin, and things have gotten more and more corrupt. The word "corrupt" means to go from a good state to a bad state, and this is exactly what the scriptures say.

Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

Something must first be good before it can become corrupted, that is the definition of this word.

From his heart, but again, scripture shows man has "corrupted" himself (Gen 6:12).

Man is born with fleshly lusts. Eve demonstrated all the worldly lusts shown in 1 John 2:16 in Gen 3:16. She saw the tree was good for food, this is the lust of the flesh. She saw the tree was pleasant to look upon, this is the lust of the eyes. She saw the tree was desired to make one wise, this is the pride of life.

These are the three worldly lusts (in order) described in 1 John 2:16. Eve had these worldly lusts BEFORE she sinned and became a sinner. Yet God said she was "very good" in Gen 1:31.

Our fleshly lusts are only sinful if we obey them in a sinful fashion. It is not wrong to desire food and to eat, we need to eat to stay healthy. But if we eat too much we harm our health.

It is not wrong to enjoy beauty, there is nothing wrong with a man enjoying his wife's beauty. But if a man lusts after another woman it is sin.

It is not wrong to be wise, the scriptures tell us to study and be wise. But if our only goal is to vaunt ourselves over others, that is pride and a sin.

If Eve would have walked away from this temptation, she would have committed no sin. The reason it was sin is because God had specifically commanded them not to eat of this particular tree. They could lust after and eat from any other tree in the garden.

We are designed with fleshly lusts, we need them for survival. It is only when we abuse these lusts or allow them them to entice us to do what is forbidden that they become sinful.

Jesus did not sin because he obeyed his Father in the strength of the Holy Spirit. Jesus had to overcome sin in the same manner that a Christian does, by obedience to the word of God, and much prayer.

You don't get it, it is no big deal for God to defeat Satan. Jesus had to take on "the same" flesh and nature of man (Heb 2:14-18) to redeem man.

It is you that does not understand why God had to come down from heaven and become flesh to defeat Satan to redeem man.

 

Winman it is called the prince of the power of the air.

I think a better question OR could have asked would have been; Why was man created in the first place?

It appears to me that, man (Adam) was created as the conduit by which the Son of God, foreordained before the world was made, could come into the world for the purpose of God.

Is that purpose relative to the prince of the power of the air.

What other power is in the hands of this one? You have already pasted the verse that power is spoken of?

What was the little voice in the head of Eve by which she decided to eat of the tree that I assume Adam had told her they were not to eat of? Did she do this of her very own accord?

I would like ask your thoughts concerning this phrase taken from 1 Peter 1
20, the foundation of the world, and this one taken from Job 38:4 the foundations of the earth.

Are they speaking of the same thing?

Was the foundations of the earth, the terrestrial planet, laid before, the foundation of the world, the system of order?

Why was man (the first Adam, the living soul) made relative to the last Adam, the Son of Man?