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Ten Commandments Keep them or break them?
- Thread starter BobRyan
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Christ said that He spoke NOTHING of His own - but His Word was the Word of God the Father.
You put Christ at war against the Father - negating the Father's commandments as if that is valid.
D.L. Moody argued strongly against your idea.
The Baptist Confession of Faith argues against your idea.
C.H. Spurgeon argues against your idea.
Christ in the Gospels argues against your idea.
[FONT="]John 10:35[/FONT]
[FONT="]35 [/FONT][FONT="] Scripture cannot be broken[/FONT]
[FONT="]John 12[/FONT]
[FONT="]48 [/FONT][FONT="]He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.[/FONT]49 [FONT="]For I have not spoken on My own authority;[/FONT][FONT="] but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.[/FONT]
[FONT="]John 8:28[/FONT]
[FONT="]28 [/FONT][FONT="]So Jesus said, [/FONT][FONT="]“When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]John 5[/FONT]
[FONT="]30 [/FONT][FONT="]I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.[/FONT]
====================== Scripture is from GOD
[FONT="]2Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture given by inspiration from GOD and is profitable for doctrine and correction"
And of course Christ HIMSELF argued that HIS words are not at all in contrast to the Father - but that He only speaks that which the Father gives Him.
2Peter 1:20-21 NO scripture is in fact "a matter of one's own interpretation but holy men of old moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God"
John 5:46-47 those who reject the teaching of Moses will reject Christ "but if you reject Moses' writings how will you believe Me"
The Bible says that Moses' word IS every bit the inspired word of God - "scripture" - that 2Tim 3:16 and 2 Peter 1:20-21 claim as we see in these examples of Moses' writings being accepted NT scripture --[/FONT]
Your silly arguments seem to be saying that all the Bible is summed up in the Ten Commandments.
Therefore, hang a plaque of the Ten Commandments on your wall and throw away the Bible. You don't need the Bible as long as you have the Ten Commandments. All the Word is contained in the Ten Commandments. The rest of the Word is irrelevant.
What a ridiculous position to take.
Bob, "The Ten Commandments" in and of itself, has become your idol.
Which commandment of God, once brokem, causes a saved person to become unsaved?
name it please!
And have you reach that sinless perfection state that your prophetess religion requires you to attain to in order to be sure that you will be kept saved?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Christ said that He spoke NOTHING of His own - but His Word was the Word of God the Father.
You put Christ at war against the Father - negating the Father's commandments as if that is valid.
D.L. Moody argued strongly against your idea.
The Baptist Confession of Faith argues against your idea.
C.H. Spurgeon argues against your idea.
Christ in the Gospels argues against your idea.
[FONT="]John 10:35[/FONT]
[FONT="]35 [/FONT][FONT="] Scripture cannot be broken[/FONT]
[FONT="]John 12[/FONT]
[FONT="]48 [/FONT][FONT="]He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.[/FONT]49 [FONT="]For I have not spoken on My own authority;[/FONT][FONT="] but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.[/FONT]
[FONT="]John 8:28[/FONT]
[FONT="]28 [/FONT][FONT="]So Jesus said, [/FONT][FONT="]“When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]John 5[/FONT]
[FONT="]30 [/FONT][FONT="]I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.[/FONT]
====================== Scripture is from GOD
[FONT="]2Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture given by inspiration from GOD and is profitable for doctrine and correction"
And of course Christ HIMSELF argued that HIS words are not at all in contrast to the Father - but that He only speaks that which the Father gives Him.
2Peter 1:20-21 NO scripture is in fact "a matter of one's own interpretation but holy men of old moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God"
John 5:46-47 those who reject the teaching of Moses will reject Christ "but if you reject Moses' writings how will you believe Me"
The Bible says that Moses' word IS every bit the inspired word of God - "scripture" - that 2Tim 3:16 and 2 Peter 1:20-21 claim as we see in these examples of Moses' writings being accepted NT scripture --[/FONT]
That is not how the sources I quoted above use the term - why would I?
Your efforts to 'make stuff up' in response to the Bible points listed above - noted.
Why do that??
It only appeals to the "any ol excuse will do" crowd whose interest is not in Bible details - but in games and name calling.
in Christ,
Bob
You put Christ at war against the Father - negating the Father's commandments as if that is valid.
D.L. Moody argued strongly against your idea.
The Baptist Confession of Faith argues against your idea.
C.H. Spurgeon argues against your idea.
Christ in the Gospels argues against your idea.
[FONT="]John 10:35[/FONT]
[FONT="]35 [/FONT][FONT="] Scripture cannot be broken[/FONT]
[FONT="]John 12[/FONT]
[FONT="]48 [/FONT][FONT="]He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.[/FONT]49 [FONT="]For I have not spoken on My own authority;[/FONT][FONT="] but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.[/FONT]
[FONT="]John 8:28[/FONT]
[FONT="]28 [/FONT][FONT="]So Jesus said, [/FONT][FONT="]“When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]John 5[/FONT]
[FONT="]30 [/FONT][FONT="]I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.[/FONT]
====================== Scripture is from GOD
[FONT="]2Tim 3:16 "ALL scripture given by inspiration from GOD and is profitable for doctrine and correction"
And of course Christ HIMSELF argued that HIS words are not at all in contrast to the Father - but that He only speaks that which the Father gives Him.
2Peter 1:20-21 NO scripture is in fact "a matter of one's own interpretation but holy men of old moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God"
John 5:46-47 those who reject the teaching of Moses will reject Christ "but if you reject Moses' writings how will you believe Me"
The Bible says that Moses' word IS every bit the inspired word of God - "scripture" - that 2Tim 3:16 and 2 Peter 1:20-21 claim as we see in these examples of Moses' writings being accepted NT scripture --[/FONT]
That is not how the sources I quoted above use the term - why would I?
Your efforts to 'make stuff up' in response to the Bible points listed above - noted.
Why do that??
It only appeals to the "any ol excuse will do" crowd whose interest is not in Bible details - but in games and name calling.
in Christ,
Bob
It is strange how you quote the Scripture saying that Christ spoke nothing of His own but His Word was the word of His Father.
Then you go on to list Moody, the Baptist Confession and Spurgeon as your authorities and not the Scriptures. A little inconsistent aren't you?
As for the Commandments, you don't keep them. You never had.
Like the rich young ruler, who said that he had kept them from his youth, Jesus demonstrated that he couldn't keep them. He desired or coveted his riches more than he desired Christ, and thus went away sorrowful. He lied when he said he kept the commandments from his youth. No man can keep the law.
Whoever says they do makes Christ a liar and the truth is not in them (See 1John 1:8,10).
Concerning the Sabbath
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nc...istory-wearing-yarmulke-050602763--ncaab.html
Do you keep the Sabbath as Liberman does?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by DHK
[FONT="] There is no mention of the Ten Commandments here.
The Word of Christ is not the Ten Commandments.
[/FONT]His commandments are not the Ten Commandments.
You have not demonstrated a thing.
In the above post I show how DHK opposes not only Scripture but even some of his own Baptist sources.
Indeed it is strange that all of them should oppose your idea - you would think that agreement would not be so striking.
Is it your argument that this fact can be bent-wrenched to somehow be "my fault"??
Really??
Please be serious.
Try a Bible response.
in Christ,
Bob
You cite people that don't keep the Biblical Sabbath; you are deceitful.
I cite a person that does keep the Biblical Sabbath, and as I have explained to you before, he does in a way that the Sabbath should be kept. You ignore this. Why? Because you don't keep the Sabbath, even though you say you do.
You have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof.
It is called hypocrisy.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
As usual - you are long on name calling - and short on accuracy.
=========================
Here is what I posted -
from: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2069096&postcount=46
Sunday is not the Sabbath--nor was it ever, not in all of history was it the Sabbath. Moody's proclamation could not change the Sabbath into Sunday. The Sabbath has always been and always will be Saturday. Just because Moody proclaimed it to be Sunday doesn't make it so.
Yet given that fact - we cannot join DHK in lying about what Moody said about his own beliefs - we must let Moody speak for himself even though we may not agree with his views 100%.
===================== D.L. Moody
Quote:
Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.
[FONT="]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?
I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT="]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT="]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT="]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.
The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?
I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.
The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness. [/FONT]
[FONT="]
HOW T
BSERVE THE SABBATH[/FONT]
HOW T
BSERVE THE SABBATH[/FONT]================== end quote
Verbatim. No comments added. Yet DHK fears these words - as they read - with nothing added.
--------------------------------------
1. How sad for DHK that he cannot deny my quote above stating "Sunday is not the Sabbath--nor was it ever, not in all of history was it the Sabbath. Moody's proclamation could not change the Sabbath into Sunday. The Sabbath has always been and always will be Saturday. Just because Moody proclaimed it to be Sunday doesn't make it so. "
2. How sad for DHK that he cannot deny my verbatim quote of D.L. Moody that follows my opening statement above.
How sad for his false accusation that these two details alone expose DHK and yet another case of false accusation against others.
in Christ,
Bob
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't fear those words at all. They prove your own hypocrisy.As usual - you are long on name calling - and short on accuracy.
=========================
Here is what I posted -
from: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2069096&postcount=46
Sunday is not the Sabbath--nor was it ever, not in all of history was it the Sabbath. Moody's proclamation could not change the Sabbath into Sunday. The Sabbath has always been and always will be Saturday. Just because Moody proclaimed it to be Sunday doesn't make it so.
Yet given that fact - we cannot join DHK in lying about what Moody said about his own beliefs - we must let Moody speak for himself even though we may not agree with his views 100%.
===================== D.L. Moody
Quote:
Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.
[FONT="]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?
I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT="]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT="]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT="]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.
The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?
I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.
The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness. [/FONT]
[FONT="]"Sabbath" means "rest," and the meaning of the word gives a hint as to the true way to observe the day. God rested after creation, and ordained the Sabbath as a rest for man. He blessed it and hallowed it. Remember the rest-day to keep it holy.[/FONT][FONT="]
HOW T
================== end quote
Verbatim. No comments added. Yet DHK fears these words - as they read - with nothing added.
First you say this and agree with what you posted:
Sunday is not the Sabbath, and yet Moody's entire quote refers to Sunday which you do not observe as the Sabbath and disagree that it is the Sabbath. You disagree with Moody over this, and then quote him as if you agree. That is pure hypocrisy, and a shame that you would be so deceitful in doing so.
It is sad that you quote Moody as your authority when in fact he does not believe in the Sabbath. His entire message is keeping Sunday as the Lord's Day, and if not, some other day as a day of rest. He does not agree with you. So why do you go on as if he does agree with you. He even makes a caveat to his own message that his beliefs have nothing to do with the SDA's beliefs. This makes you the hypocrite.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Speaking of your need to ignore the obvious logic in each post - and vilify those that differ with you.
For all of D.L. Moody's errors - he gets one thing right.
The Calvinist/vs Arminian discussion board recently brought this up --
========================================
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2070588&posted=1#post2070588
http://www.biblebb.com/files/TW/tw-commandments.htm
Ok - so then you are saying that the "Ten Commandments" are a "good thing"??
The Baptist Confession of Faith takes that same position (so also D.L. Moody, and C.H. Spurgeon of course) but some folks over on the "other denominations" discussion board will fight tooth and nail against that idea.
Seems like I find this support for the TEN Commandments more on the Calvinist side than the Baptist-Arminian side these days.
=====================================
So then we have yet another Sunday Keeper like D.L. Moody promoting all TEN of the TEN Commandments - and yet wanting to "bend/edit" the 4th commandment to point to week-day-1 instead of "the seventh day".
And they all want to do by throwing DHK's method under a bus - the method that tries to downsize or eliminate the TEN Commandments.
Read it.
===================================
The Ten Commandments
by Thomas Watson
2.4 The Fourth Commandment
‘Remember the Sabbath-day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God; in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath-day and hallowed it. Exod 20: 8-11.
This commandment was engraven in stone by God’s own finger, and it will be our comfort to have it engraven in our hearts.
The Sabbath-day is set apart for God’s solemn worship; it is his own enclosure, and must not be alienated to common uses. As a preface to this commandment, he has put a memento to it, ‘Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy.’ This word, ‘remember,’ shows that we are apt to forget Sabbath holiness; therefore we need a memorandum to put us in mind of sanctifying the day.
I. There is in these words a solemn command. ‘Remember the Sabbath-day to keep it holy.’
[1] The matter of it. The sanctifying the Sabbath, which Sabbath sanctification consists in two things, in resting from our own works, and in a conscientious discharge of our religious duty.
[2] The persons to whom the command of sanctifying the Sabbath is given. Either superiors, and they are, more private, as parents and masters; or more public, as magistrates; or inferiors, as natives, children, and servants, ‘Thy son, and thy daughter, thy man-servant, and thy maidservant;’ or foreigners, ‘thy stranger that is within thy gates.’
II. The arguments to obey this commandment of keeping holy the Sabbath are,
[1] From the rationality of it. ‘Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work;’ as if God had said, I am not a hard master, I do not grudge thee time to look after thy calling, and to get an estate. I have given thee six days, to do all thy work in, and have taken but one day for myself. I might have reserved six days for myself, and allowed thee but one; but I have given thee six days for the works of thy calling, and have taken but one day for my own service. It is just and rational, therefore, that thou shouldest set this day in a special manner apart for my worship.
[2] The second argument for sanctifying the Sabbath, is taken from the justice of it. ‘The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God;’ as if God had said, The Sabbath-day is my due, I challenge a special right in it, and no other has any claim to it. He who robs me of this day, and puts it to common uses, is a sacrilegious person, he steals from the crown of heaven, and I will in nowise hold him guiltless.
[3] The third argument for sanctifying the Sabbath, is taken from God’s own observance of it. He ‘rested the seventh day;’ as if the Lord should say, Will you not follow me as a pattern? Having finished all my works of creation, I rested the seventh day; so having done all your secular work on the six days, you should now cease from the labour of your calling, and dedicate the seventh day to me, as a day of holy rest.
[4] The fourth argument for Sabbath-sanctification, is taken ab utili, from the benefit which redounds from a religious observation of the Sabbath. ‘The Lord blessed the seventh day and hallowed it.’ God not only appointed the seventh day, but he blessed it. It is not only a day of honour to God, but a day of blessing to us; it is not only a day wherein we give God worship, but a day wherein he gives us grace. On this day a blessing drops down from heaven. God himself is not benefited by it, we cannot add one cubit to his essential glory; but we ourselves are benefited. This day, religiously observed, entails a blessing upon our souls, our estate, and our posterity. Not keeping it, brings a curse. Jer 17: 27. God curses a man’s blessings. Mal 2: 2. The bread which he eats is poisoned with a curse; so the conscientious observation of the Sabbath, brings all manner of blessings with it. These are the arguments to induce Sabbath-sanctification.
The thing I would have you now observe is, that the commandment of keeping the Sabbath was not abrogated with the ceremonial law, but is purely moral, and the observation of it is to be continued to the end of the world. Where can it be shown that God has given us a discharge from keeping one day in seven?
http://www.biblebb.com/files/TW/tw-commandments.htm
================================================
For all of D.L. Moody's errors - he gets one thing right.
And in so doing - he tosses your idea under a bus - that says we should either downsize or ignore the TEN Commandments.
The Calvinist/vs Arminian discussion board recently brought this up --
========================================
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2070588&posted=1#post2070588
http://www.biblebb.com/files/TW/tw-commandments.htm
Ok - so then you are saying that the "Ten Commandments" are a "good thing"??
The Baptist Confession of Faith takes that same position (so also D.L. Moody, and C.H. Spurgeon of course) but some folks over on the "other denominations" discussion board will fight tooth and nail against that idea.
Seems like I find this support for the TEN Commandments more on the Calvinist side than the Baptist-Arminian side these days.
=====================================
So then we have yet another Sunday Keeper like D.L. Moody promoting all TEN of the TEN Commandments - and yet wanting to "bend/edit" the 4th commandment to point to week-day-1 instead of "the seventh day".
And they all want to do by throwing DHK's method under a bus - the method that tries to downsize or eliminate the TEN Commandments.
Read it.
===================================
The Ten Commandments
by Thomas Watson
2.4 The Fourth Commandment
‘Remember the Sabbath-day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God; in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath-day and hallowed it. Exod 20: 8-11.
This commandment was engraven in stone by God’s own finger, and it will be our comfort to have it engraven in our hearts.
The Sabbath-day is set apart for God’s solemn worship; it is his own enclosure, and must not be alienated to common uses. As a preface to this commandment, he has put a memento to it, ‘Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy.’ This word, ‘remember,’ shows that we are apt to forget Sabbath holiness; therefore we need a memorandum to put us in mind of sanctifying the day.
I. There is in these words a solemn command. ‘Remember the Sabbath-day to keep it holy.’
[1] The matter of it. The sanctifying the Sabbath, which Sabbath sanctification consists in two things, in resting from our own works, and in a conscientious discharge of our religious duty.
[2] The persons to whom the command of sanctifying the Sabbath is given. Either superiors, and they are, more private, as parents and masters; or more public, as magistrates; or inferiors, as natives, children, and servants, ‘Thy son, and thy daughter, thy man-servant, and thy maidservant;’ or foreigners, ‘thy stranger that is within thy gates.’
II. The arguments to obey this commandment of keeping holy the Sabbath are,
[1] From the rationality of it. ‘Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work;’ as if God had said, I am not a hard master, I do not grudge thee time to look after thy calling, and to get an estate. I have given thee six days, to do all thy work in, and have taken but one day for myself. I might have reserved six days for myself, and allowed thee but one; but I have given thee six days for the works of thy calling, and have taken but one day for my own service. It is just and rational, therefore, that thou shouldest set this day in a special manner apart for my worship.
[2] The second argument for sanctifying the Sabbath, is taken from the justice of it. ‘The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God;’ as if God had said, The Sabbath-day is my due, I challenge a special right in it, and no other has any claim to it. He who robs me of this day, and puts it to common uses, is a sacrilegious person, he steals from the crown of heaven, and I will in nowise hold him guiltless.
[3] The third argument for sanctifying the Sabbath, is taken from God’s own observance of it. He ‘rested the seventh day;’ as if the Lord should say, Will you not follow me as a pattern? Having finished all my works of creation, I rested the seventh day; so having done all your secular work on the six days, you should now cease from the labour of your calling, and dedicate the seventh day to me, as a day of holy rest.
[4] The fourth argument for Sabbath-sanctification, is taken ab utili, from the benefit which redounds from a religious observation of the Sabbath. ‘The Lord blessed the seventh day and hallowed it.’ God not only appointed the seventh day, but he blessed it. It is not only a day of honour to God, but a day of blessing to us; it is not only a day wherein we give God worship, but a day wherein he gives us grace. On this day a blessing drops down from heaven. God himself is not benefited by it, we cannot add one cubit to his essential glory; but we ourselves are benefited. This day, religiously observed, entails a blessing upon our souls, our estate, and our posterity. Not keeping it, brings a curse. Jer 17: 27. God curses a man’s blessings. Mal 2: 2. The bread which he eats is poisoned with a curse; so the conscientious observation of the Sabbath, brings all manner of blessings with it. These are the arguments to induce Sabbath-sanctification.
The thing I would have you now observe is, that the commandment of keeping the Sabbath was not abrogated with the ceremonial law, but is purely moral, and the observation of it is to be continued to the end of the world. Where can it be shown that God has given us a discharge from keeping one day in seven?
http://www.biblebb.com/files/TW/tw-commandments.htm
================================================
Last edited by a moderator:
And this concerns me how?
I am sorry Bob, but did you just attribute the authorship of the Bible to modern men?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Here is what I posted -
from: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost...6&postcount=46
Sunday is not the Sabbath--nor was it ever, not in all of history was it the Sabbath. Moody's proclamation could not change the Sabbath into Sunday. The Sabbath has always been and always will be Saturday. Just because Moody proclaimed it to be Sunday doesn't make it so.
Yet given that fact - we cannot join DHK in lying about what Moody said about his own beliefs - we must let Moody speak for himself even though we may not agree with his views 100%.
===================== D.L. Moody
Quote:
Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.
[FONT="]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?
I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT="]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT="]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT="]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.
[/FONT]
As I have stated dozens of times by now "obviously" AND as I stated in the quote above "Yet given that fact - we cannot join DHK in lying about what Moody said about his own beliefs - we must let Moody speak for himself even though we may not agree with his views 100%."
In the same way that I post in favor of a lot of what E-7 posts without agreeing with him in every statement he ever made. Just as I post in favor of the non-cals and the Arminians over on the C/A board without agreeing with them in every detail -- JUST as I agree with some of the Calvinists over on the C/A aboard on certain topics.
The whole point is to find areas of agreement - and also those where we differ and mark them out clearly - rather than using the second grader's rule of differing on all counts if you differ on only ONE.
I think we can all see that point -- but on the subject of D.L. Moody you have made it your work not to see the point.
My post actually said "Sunday is not the Sabbath--nor was it ever,"
Pure DHK Nonesense -- what awful wrenching of a post to come up with your false accusation claiming that I agree with Moody that Sunday is the Sabbath when in fact the part I agree with him - is his statement that the Law of God is still valid and that includes the 4th commandment. And we BOTH know it!!
- I have never posted Moody's statement saying that I agree that Sunday is the Sabbath and we BOTH know it.
No SDA that has ever posted on this board has posted that "Sunday is the Sabbath" and we both know it. Certainly not me. In fact WERE I to start posting that - I would be in the Biblicist camp - and I have repeatedly opposed him on that point -- and we both know it.
The only place you find such nonsense - is in YOUR posts where you are "making stuff up" about what I say without actually quoting me so your false accusation 'will look good' to some unsuspecting reader that does not take the time to look up the actual details. But as in the case above you found NOTHING from me claiming that Sunday is the Sabbath - all you found was me OPPOSING that doctrine and STILL you issue your false accusation as though by habit alone.
Who is supposed to be snookered by that tactic? Me??
"That is pure hypocrisy, and a shame that you would be so deceitful in doing so. "
oops -- those where your words. You must have been feeling guilty just then and simply spoke out loud.
Oh well if the shoe fits DHK you must wear it now that you have said that.
in Christ,
Bob
Last edited by a moderator:
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
For all of D.L. Moody's errors - he gets one thing right. The Ten commandments were not done away with. they still exist.
The Calvinist/vs Arminian discussion board recently brought this up --
========================================
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2070588&posted=1#post2070588
http://www.biblebb.com/files/TW/tw-commandments.htm
[/quote]
Apparently Thomas Watson also tosses your view of downsizing the Ten Commandments - or possibly doing away with them - under the bus as well as D.L. Moody doing it.
The point is - you can't blame everything on me. These other sources also differ with you and some of them are from within your own group - the Baptists.
Simply contenting yourself with vilanizing me each time this comes up - is not a very mature solution.
in Christ,
Bob
And in so doing - he tosses your idea under a bus - that says we should either downsize or ignore the TEN Commandments.
The Calvinist/vs Arminian discussion board recently brought this up --
========================================
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2070588&posted=1#post2070588
http://www.biblebb.com/files/TW/tw-commandments.htm
[/quote]
Apparently Thomas Watson also tosses your view of downsizing the Ten Commandments - or possibly doing away with them - under the bus as well as D.L. Moody doing it.
The point is - you can't blame everything on me. These other sources also differ with you and some of them are from within your own group - the Baptists.
Simply contenting yourself with vilanizing me each time this comes up - is not a very mature solution.
in Christ,
Bob
No it isn't. We disagree. Do not feign agreement. We don't. We are further apart than the north and south pole. Don't even pretend to agree.
And thus your hypocrisy.
Why use him as an authority at all. He does not hold to the SDA position, but actually denies it. Yet you continue to hold him as an authority. That is hypocrisy. He does not agree with you. Admit it. Stop using him as a reference. He does not believe in the Sabbath; he never worshiped on the Sabbath.
No, you just reference Moody as a "Sabbath Keeper," when he is not. He has changed the meaning of the word Sabbath. Thus he does not keep the Sabbath. You are deceitful in this.
And do I care?
He is not from "my group."
I don't know who he is and I don't really care.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Time to fully unmask DHK's name calling doctrine.
I quote D.L. Moody this way --
=========================
Here is what I posted -
from: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost...6&postcount=46
Sunday is not the Sabbath--nor was it ever, not in all of history was it the Sabbath. Moody's proclamation could not change the Sabbath into Sunday. The Sabbath has always been and always will be Saturday. Just because Moody proclaimed it to be Sunday doesn't make it so.
Yet given that fact - we cannot join DHK in lying about what Moody said about his own beliefs - we must let Moody speak for himself even though we may not agree with his views 100%.
===================== D.L. Moody
Quote:
[FONT="]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?
I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT="]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT="]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT="]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.
The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?
I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.
The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness. [/FONT]
[FONT="]"Sabbath" means "rest," and the meaning of the word gives a hint as to the true way to observe the day. God rested after creation, and ordained the Sabbath as a rest for man. He blessed it and hallowed it. Remember the rest-day to keep it holy.[/FONT]
================== end quote
Verbatim. No comments added. Yet DHK fears these words - as they read - with nothing added.
1. How sad for DHK that he cannot deny my quote above stating "Sunday is not the Sabbath--nor was it ever, not in all of history was it the Sabbath. Moody's proclamation could not change the Sabbath into Sunday. The Sabbath has always been and always will be Saturday. Just because Moody proclaimed it to be Sunday doesn't make it so. "
2. How sad for DHK that he cannot deny my verbatim quote of D.L. Moody that follows my opening statement above.
===================================================
There is only ONE common sense conclusion - from the above and it is that I object to Moody trying to make Sunday in to the Sabbath but I strongly AGREE that the 4th commandment remains and that the TEN Commandments are still valid for all mankind.
Incredibly obvious and incredibly consistent with everything I have ever posted on this topic.
However DHK has found a "nonsense response" and offers it to anyone that is willing to "engage in nonsense for the sake of name calling and falsely accusing Christians".
What is that nonsense solution given that DHK cannot actually deny the two statements above?
The total nonsense DHK proposes is that I am trying to quote Moody "AS if I AGREE" that Sunday is the Sabbath not Saturday. OR as if after flatly condemning Moody in my first statement above for claiming that SUNDAY is the Sabbath - I then QUOTE Moody with NO comments added, as if Moody is insisting along with me that only Saturday is the Sabbath of the 4th commandment - though I have just condemned Moody for his doctrine that is to the contrary. Utter nonsense! WHO would fall for it??
As if inexplicably I want to argue along with Biblicist and Moody that Sunday is the Sabbath not Saturday??!! and so in DHK's nonsense proposal - i am trying to deceive everyone as if this is my point in quoting Moody or the Baptist Confession of Faith or Thomas Watson, or the Westminster Confession of Faith etc.
What utter nonsense!! Biblicist and I have debated this very point as I argue against his view that Sunday is the Sabbath. And DHK knows it - yet boldly DHK offers this nonsense all for the sake of name-calling "alone".
Yet this "nonsense" solution is the very one he needs to then add "you are deceitful" and to get some low-information posters to agree - while others "run for the hills".
How sad that even one person would sign up for the nonsense option just for the sake of name-calling.
So where are they now??
in Christ,
Bob
I quote D.L. Moody this way --
=========================
Here is what I posted -
from: http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost...6&postcount=46
Sunday is not the Sabbath--nor was it ever, not in all of history was it the Sabbath. Moody's proclamation could not change the Sabbath into Sunday. The Sabbath has always been and always will be Saturday. Just because Moody proclaimed it to be Sunday doesn't make it so.
Yet given that fact - we cannot join DHK in lying about what Moody said about his own beliefs - we must let Moody speak for himself even though we may not agree with his views 100%.
===================== D.L. Moody
Quote:
Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.
[FONT="]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?
I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT="]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT="]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT="]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.
The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?
I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.
The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness. [/FONT]
[FONT="]
HOW TBSERVE THE SABBATH[/FONT]
HOW T
BSERVE THE SABBATH[/FONT]================== end quote
Verbatim. No comments added. Yet DHK fears these words - as they read - with nothing added.
1. How sad for DHK that he cannot deny my quote above stating "Sunday is not the Sabbath--nor was it ever, not in all of history was it the Sabbath. Moody's proclamation could not change the Sabbath into Sunday. The Sabbath has always been and always will be Saturday. Just because Moody proclaimed it to be Sunday doesn't make it so. "
2. How sad for DHK that he cannot deny my verbatim quote of D.L. Moody that follows my opening statement above.
===================================================
There is only ONE common sense conclusion - from the above and it is that I object to Moody trying to make Sunday in to the Sabbath but I strongly AGREE that the 4th commandment remains and that the TEN Commandments are still valid for all mankind.
Incredibly obvious and incredibly consistent with everything I have ever posted on this topic.
However DHK has found a "nonsense response" and offers it to anyone that is willing to "engage in nonsense for the sake of name calling and falsely accusing Christians".
What is that nonsense solution given that DHK cannot actually deny the two statements above?
DHK said:
The total nonsense DHK proposes is that I am trying to quote Moody "AS if I AGREE" that Sunday is the Sabbath not Saturday. OR as if after flatly condemning Moody in my first statement above for claiming that SUNDAY is the Sabbath - I then QUOTE Moody with NO comments added, as if Moody is insisting along with me that only Saturday is the Sabbath of the 4th commandment - though I have just condemned Moody for his doctrine that is to the contrary. Utter nonsense! WHO would fall for it??
As if inexplicably I want to argue along with Biblicist and Moody that Sunday is the Sabbath not Saturday??!! and so in DHK's nonsense proposal - i am trying to deceive everyone as if this is my point in quoting Moody or the Baptist Confession of Faith or Thomas Watson, or the Westminster Confession of Faith etc.
What utter nonsense!! Biblicist and I have debated this very point as I argue against his view that Sunday is the Sabbath. And DHK knows it - yet boldly DHK offers this nonsense all for the sake of name-calling "alone".
Yet this "nonsense" solution is the very one he needs to then add "you are deceitful" and to get some low-information posters to agree - while others "run for the hills".
How sad that even one person would sign up for the nonsense option just for the sake of name-calling.
So where are they now??
in Christ,
Bob
Last edited by a moderator:
Moody doesn't agree with you. Therefore you have no reason to quote Moody. Thus your hypocrisy in quoting Moody. When will you stop this nonsense?
Why would you refer to any of the above if they all disagree with you. Utter nonsense. You quote from those that disagree with you as if they agree with you. Pure hypocrisy!
Does Biblicist agree with you? Ask him?
You are deceitful to quote from those who disagree with as if they do agree. That is wrong.
But you are off topic Bob.
Get back on topic.
The topic of this thread is: Thread: Ten Commandments Keep them or break them?
Do you keep the Ten Commandments Bob?
All of them? All the time?
Hi Bob - "The keeping of the commandments of God" is in reference to the dispensation of Grace within what Christ and the New Testament teaches concerning God's will for the believer in Christ, which traverses beyond that which God gave to Israel in the OT dispensation.
Much of the principles of the tutoring in the OT is revealed and applied in the NT (God's will as a new creation). This was not commanded under the prior dispensation for the Jew, which is now ended, concerning the Law.
The TC's were not for regeneration but so lawlessness would be regulated within the Israel nation--a privilege no other nation has in that time.
Now, as a new creature (2 Cor 5:17) of those regenerated, the believer will be seen walking in the gospel of Christ (not possible before--no Spirit given--John 7:39) and all that is taught in the NT.
The reason why "commandments" intends God's will (not the TC's and the rest of the Law) is because only to the circumcised were they delivered, and the instruction in 1 Corinthians 7 was to Christians, not to those who chose to remain under the Law.
Those who were circumcised needed not to seek circumcision and those who were not circumcised needed not to seek uncircumcision--because the two meant nothing (1 Co 7:19) in relation to regeneration (born again). The fact of this reveals the chapter is advocating that which is to the believer in Christ.
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature" (Gal 6:15). Grace is not what we do for God (which is only for glorification--Mat 5:16), but for what He does for us.
I hope this reply is taken only in an instructional sense and not competitively. It's always good to take the opportunity when it arises to share concerning the Law.
God's blessing to your Family!
Much of the principles of the tutoring in the OT is revealed and applied in the NT (God's will as a new creation). This was not commanded under the prior dispensation for the Jew, which is now ended, concerning the Law.
The TC's were not for regeneration but so lawlessness would be regulated within the Israel nation--a privilege no other nation has in that time.
Now, as a new creature (2 Cor 5:17) of those regenerated, the believer will be seen walking in the gospel of Christ (not possible before--no Spirit given--John 7:39) and all that is taught in the NT.
The reason why "commandments" intends God's will (not the TC's and the rest of the Law) is because only to the circumcised were they delivered, and the instruction in 1 Corinthians 7 was to Christians, not to those who chose to remain under the Law.
Those who were circumcised needed not to seek circumcision and those who were not circumcised needed not to seek uncircumcision--because the two meant nothing (1 Co 7:19) in relation to regeneration (born again). The fact of this reveals the chapter is advocating that which is to the believer in Christ.
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature" (Gal 6:15). Grace is not what we do for God (which is only for glorification--Mat 5:16), but for what He does for us.
I hope this reply is taken only in an instructional sense and not competitively. It's always good to take the opportunity when it arises to share concerning the Law.
God's blessing to your Family!
- Status