Featured Sincerity

Your responses to God's words prove otherwise.

I'll prove it to you, even though you wouldn't admit it here...

Next time someone says, "There is no room for boasting," you should reply with these words from God, without qualification, without explanation. I dare you. You won't do it. I don't think you would ever say those words because you don't believe those words. You don't believe what God said is true, period.

If you did believe them then you wouldn't hesitate to restate what He said with your definition and explaination. You won't offer that, but instead you just deny it over and over.

Do you know what this reminds me of? When uneducated 'non-Calvinists' say things like, "I don't believe in predestination." I always tell them, "Then you don't believe God's word, because the word 'predestination' is God's word, not Calvins." The question is, "WHAT do you believe about predestination?"

The same thing is happening with you right now. You deny boasting is ever appropriate despite the fact that God says it is appropriate if the boasting is about understanding and knowing Him. You aren't offering another interpretation, an alternate way of approaching this verse...you are just denying it. You are denying the very word of God.

 

Could you possibly grow up, just a little bit? Is that even within the realm of possibility?

 

News Flash, the Gospel is "man-centric" and also "GOD-CENTRIC".

 

Are we to take this response seriously????? No one is arguing with what God said! We are simply correcting the erroneous interpretative inference you placed on what God said. You quoted it and then inferred that God's intent behind his words was that man could boast in knowing God AS A PERSONAL ACHEIVEMENT. However, nothing is said about it being a "personal acheivement" is there?

No, that is your erroneous inference which Jesus Christ repudiated by clearly denying that knowing God is by personal acheivement but ONLY BY REVELATION.

The Bible condemns boasting in personal acheivements but promotes boasting in what man cannot personally acheive but is obtained by God's grace - boasting in the cross - boasting in knowing him - boasting in grace - because all of these things are not matters of personal acheivement.

Mt 11:27 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knows the Son, but the Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Lu 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knows who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

 

The gospel is CHRIST-CENTRIC only - 1 Cor. 15:4-5! There is nothing about YOU in the gospel except in regard to what Christ did "for us." So the gospel is not "man-centric" unless you are talking about sin! The gospel is not about co-redeemers or -co-saviors or parternship salvation.

 

I agree that God does not force any one to believe. But to say that God could force people to believe is an invalid statement.

First, I don't think it is consistent with God's character for Him to 'force' people to believe. Therefore (in my opinion), God could not force people to believe. It is not a choice made by God to not force belief on people. He is unable to use force on people into belief (but it is not because people have a superior power to resist). This is my view of how things actually are with God and people.

Second, if you were thinking of a scenario whereby things were different with the character of God and people, although a different issue, the result comes out the same. If a 'God' actually could force people into belief He would not be the God of the Bible. If people were 'robots' and could be 'forced' into belief they wouldn't care ('cause they're mindless robots). So again, even that 'God' cannot force people into belief.

 

I actually agree with you. What I meant is that God has the power to force someone, as he caused a great storm on the sea for Jonah, and even prepared a whale to swallow him. God did exert an influence on Jonah.

God could cause you to experience 10 minutes of hell. I am sure that would persuade anyone. And actually, if you read Jonah's words, he did seem to experience hell in that whale's belly. I believe the reason he could not stand the bright sun is because his skin was burned by that whale's digestive acids.

But I agree, God is not immoral so he cannot force someone against their will.

Sometimes it is a fine line between persuasion and force.

 

That is PRECISELY what I meant it was done and accomplished due to Christ's and the Father's love for his creation. Yes it was about me....and you and everyone else who professes faith in Christ.

 

Incorrect. Go back to the beginning and you took issue with God's word and a basic common definition. You've yet to present an alternative definition, because there isn't one that is different from the one I presented. Thus your issue wasn't with the definition, it was with God's word. Even now you are arguing that there is never a reason to boast despite the FACT that God tells us to boast in knowing him. You just don't like what God said. Admit it.

 

You have changed your position as well. You claimed that this verse was a boast in "personal acheivement" and now you are backing away from that definitive statement.

The fact is we can boast before God and man in those things which CANNOT BE ATTRIBUTED TO PERSONAL ACHIEVEMENT but by God alone. Knowing God is something that CANNOT POSSIBLY be attributed to personal acheivement (as you boasted) and you know this as I have quoted Christ's words that deny it is possible. Yes, we can boast in knowing God, but not as personal acheivement, rather because of His grace.

We can boast in the cross becuase it CANNOT BE ATTRIBUTED TO PERSONAL ACHEIVEMENT.

Therefore, the major error in regard to the very text you quoted is YOUR INTEPRETATION as your interpretation ROBS God of His glory (proper credit) and you take it to yourself as "personal acheivement."

 

You are responding to a quote from God and the most common understanding of the word HE used. You disagreed but have yet to provide another definition or interpretation. This is tantamount to a non-Calvinist saying, "I don't believe in predestination."

Boasting is God's word, not mine. Deal with HIM.

 

Not a Calvinist in this world would ever boast that he understands and knows God, proving that Calvinism and God's Word do not mix.

 

If that passage is interpreted as you do "personal acheivement" then certainly no Calvinist would make such a boast.

However, if that passage is interpreted CORRECTLY to be God's personal acheivement then every Calvinist would make such a boast as they would boast in the cross or boast in grace.

Do we boast in the cross? Yes? Because of personal acheivement? No!

Do we boast in knowing God? Yes? Because of personal acheivement? No! Because Christ plainly repudiates YOUR INTERPRETATION of personal achievement and YOU HAVE NO RESPONSE because you are wrong and you know you are wrong or you would have made some kind of response as it has now been placed before you three different times.

 

I didn't interpret it like that. I simply read the words of God and gave the most common definition of the word. Those were Websters words, not mine, and I've requested REPEATEDLY an alternate definition...one that would appease the Calvinist, otherwise you are just debating with God. You can't just say, I disagree with that. You have to offer your interpretation of what that means. As it stands you all are not okay with boasting that you know and understand God, yet those are GOD'S words, not mine.

Ok, so knowing and understanding God is not a personal achievement? Are you sure? I thought you believe this was achieved by those who have been regenerated. A personal achievement, whether accomplished all by yourself, with God's assistance, or by God's irresistible power, is still a personal achievement, isn't it? I mean its not God who knows and understands God in this verse, is it?

Its seems you guys are intentionally difficult for the sake of argument.