Featured None can come but those "given" - Jn. 6:36-40

You have to understand that doctrine better, as we hold that the elect in christ will not resist the Grace, that the Holy spirit will di his work to enable them to receive jesus by faith, andconfirm that their election was surre from god, but sinners can and do resisit him daily!

 

This reveals the weakness of your hermeneutic. Anyone unwilling to objectively understand the context of the words being spoken cannot be trusted with the mechanics of those words. Why? Because it reveals that their aim is to make the mechanics fit their presumed context and systematic, which ANY linguist worth his salt will tell you is the wrong approach to the text. Why? Because any decent linguist can mechanically make a text appear to support almost any presumed claim brought to that text.

You are clearly set on making the text say what you want it to say regardless of the historical truth that would bring clarity to the author's intent.

 

Your post here goes to the heart of the weakness of systematic theology. It uses the bible plus outside sources to include philosophy and personal logic which is held up as equal to scripture. What cals need to do is stick to soal scriptura and go by biblical theology.

 

The call of the gospel via preaching through man goes to all indiscrimentally(sp?), Brother. We are commanded to preach to "every creature". The gospel weeds the garden and separates the wheat from the tares, so to speak. When we preach the gospel, the goats...the tares...want nothing to do with it. However, when His sheep hear it , after He has quickened them, they will respond. Better than that, in Luke 15, He goes and gets them, puts them upon His shoulders, and carries them and places them in the fold. And guess what? They don't kick, they don't scream, they don't rebel. They know the love their Shepherd has for them, and are thankful He brought them to the sheepfold. There is one sheepfold and one Shepherd...

 

BULLS EYE:thumbs:

 

LOL...You gotta be thinkin this place is better than LUMOSITY! :thumbs:

 

1) Pharaoh was a sinner, yet God still hardened his heart. God doing this didn't change his sinful state. Same with the Jews during, and before, the time of Jesus walking as a man here on earth.

2) God has commanded every man to repent(Acts 17:30). Yet He knows that they won't. God has commanded us to be holy as He is holy. Yet none of us can be holy like He is. God commanded the OT Jews to keep the Law, knowing none could keep it. He has set standards for His creation that none could obtain, and yet, condemned them for not doing, or keeping it. No different than what you stated in your #2 here.

3) God elected a remnant of Israel as a way to keep everyone from being as "Sodom and Gomorrah". Without the remnant...the church...His sheep...His chosen people...this world would be nothing more than an "spherical orb of sin". God chose Israel...insert church here...based solely on His love He poured out upon them. The words "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore, by my lovingkindness have I drawn there"ring ever so true.

4) The elected Jews would hear it, and also the elected Gentiles. Jesus sent them to gather all...both elect Jew and Gentile into the one sheepfold, that has one Shepherd. Not one of His lambs will be left behind.

 

It's too late to edit this but instead of saying 'Anyone' in the second sentence it would be better to have said, 'any approach' as it wasn't intended to be personal...sorry about that. :love2:

 

Then why does God even comment on those he calls who will not come? Anybody simply reading the scriptures without a bias would believe that God is sincerely calling these persons to come to him. Now, in Calvinism, if God was sincere then he would regenerate these persons, because God would know this is the only possible way they could come.

So it is ridiculous to argue that God would be upset or lament that these persons did not come when he called them if Calvinism were true, but that is what the scriptures show over and over again.

Calvinism is a ridiculous view, a person has to completely ignore scripture to believe it.

Tell me Willis, how can you possibly believe this stuff?

 

Because Jesus told the Pharisees and Saducees they were of their father, the devil. He also told them they were not of His sheep, and His word had no place within them. He also stated in John 17, He did not pray for the world, but for those "Thou hast given me", and also for those who would believe their words.

 

OK, read the parable of the prodigal son. Was he a child of the devil at first? NO, he was a son of his father until he willingly and knowingly chose to go out in sin. Only after he chose to sin do the scriptures say he was joined to a citizen of this far country.

Luke 15:15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Did Jesus say the prodigal son was born a son of the devil at first Willis? NO, he was born in his house a son of the father which represents God.

Only after he chose to sin was he joined to a citizen of that far country, I believe this represents the devil or Satan.

Did the prodigal have to be regenerated to repent? NO, the scriptures say he "came to himself" and started home. His father saw him a great way off (foreknowledge).

When he came to his father, he immediately put a ring on his finger (sonship), a robe on his back (righteousness) and shoes on his feet (the Christian's new walk).

But note that the father said the boy was alive AGAIN Willis. That means he was alive BEFORE. He was not born dead in sin, and he was not born a child of the devil as Calvinism falsely teaches.

No, he was originally a child of God, but he went out in sin and spiritually died. This is when he became a child of the devil.

But when he repented and trusted his father, his sins were forgiven and he was made alive AGAIN.

Tell me Willis, how do you explain Jesus's words that the prodigal was alive again?

Do you admit that this parable shows men are not born dead in sin, and that men are not born children of the devil?

Please answer those questions Willis.

 

Okay, we being in Adam's loins prior to the fall, were in a "right standing" with God. When Adam sinned, we sinned , too, still being in his loins. He died, and we died, being in Adam. We were sheep having gone astray, being in Adam. God then gave us, His chosen, to the Lamb, to redeem. What Adam did, God, via Jesus, undid.

Once you see the consequences of the fall, and all it entails, can see what really happened to us, via Adam. And also see what God did to rectify what Adam did, via Christ.

 

Furthermore, if a baby is born sinless, with a clean slate, it would impossible for them to die. Sin brings death, and being sinless, how could they die? That's why Adam's fall causes them to die, even whilst in the womb.

 

No, this young man needed to be born again, because when he sinned he spiritually died.

And it is you that has a serious problem, because if you are honest you must admit that Jesus is teaching this boy was originally alive, and that when he repented he was alive AGAIN.

Are you honest enough to admit that? Please answer.