Featured Why is it such a big deal?

I believe it is that simple and too many folks complicate these issues. The Scriptures central message all revolves around belief. Through all of Abraham's actions the final conclusion is "Abraham believed God". From the heart the mouth speaks and the person acts. If you have unbelief in your heart your answer to the witnessing of the Holy Spirit's miracles will be to say it is of the devil and not of God. It's all about faith from Genesis to Revelation. God made these issues pretty simple - believe or don't believe, it's your God given freewill.

 

Well I showed you the scripture. Jesus did not reduce it to simply unbelief. You trying to do so is in contrast to what Jesus taught.

 

People have been bitten by sin from birth, and die in their sins, and they never looked to Jesus. How about those in remote areas who died never knowing Jesus ever existed? Will they look to Him to get their sins blotted out? They will never know of Him, and will die sinners. "Any man" who looks at Jesus in believing faith, will be saved. "Any man" are those who have first been enlightened by that quickening power of the Holy Spirit. Until that happens to "any man", "no man" will desire to look to Him.

It's as plain and simple as that, Brother Wes....

 

You have an over active imagination, and stubborn to boot. Any one of His redeemed, born from above children are capable of unbelief:

12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God:
13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called To-day; lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin:
14 for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end:
15 while it is said, To-day if ye shall hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For who, when they heard, did provoke? nay, did not all they that came out of Egypt by Moses?
17 And with whom was he displeased forty years? was it not with them that sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient?
19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Heb 3
1 Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard.
3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said, As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Even after all the wickedness Israel had done after God had redeemed them out of the Land of Bondage with a strong hand (unbelief, disobedience, murmuring, idolatry, fornication, rebellion, etc.), and even with Balaam wanting so badly to curse Israel, God made Balaam to declare:

He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob; Neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: Jehovah his God is with him, And the shout of a king is among them. Nu 23:21
(Blessed is the man to whom, the Lord will not reckon sin. Ro 4:8)

But Israel still yet reaped (IN THIS TEMPORAL REALM) for their wickedness after being redeemed from the Land of Bondage, they wandered for forty years in the waste places when they could have possessed the Land of Milk and Honey.

Yet during all their wandering/chastening in the Wilderness He still yet gave them shade by day and light by night, He fed them manna, gave them water, their clothes never wore out, their feet didn't blister, etc., He was with them always.

So you see, there were temporal consequences for their unbelief, but no eternal consequences. Christ's atonement covers the sin of unbelief.

Unbelief IS NOT the sin referred to in Mt 12.

 

Willis, the Jews weren't born bitten by the fiery serpents.

Num 21:5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread.
6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

The Jews weren't born bitten by the fiery serpents, they were bitten after they knowingly and willingly sinned against God.

And Willis, you can't assume because people have not heard the gospel that this means God wants them to perish. God does not want any man to perish.

All I can tell you is that scripture shows God takes into consideration those who do not have knowledge.

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Now, I cannot say exactly how God will deal with those who never hear the gospel, but this scripture does seem to teach that God will only punish them with few stripes. I am not sure what that means, and I don't want to speculate.

But it does refute that God does not care about them as you seem to believe.

And you are wrong about who could look, the scripture said both "any man" and "every one" could look, and if they did, they would be healed.

Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Jesus died for all men, but a man has to look to Jesus to receive that healing.

 

Did Christ tatste death for each and every man that ever lived?


I want to take my text from Hebrews 2:9....."But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."


Now, if you stop right there, you have a "slam dunk" case. It's a closed case. However, you have to dig further into this chapter to understand what the Hebrews writer was conveying.


"For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee."(vss 10-12)



If you read closely vss 10-12, there is a particular set of people being focused upon. Those who are sanctified, and He who sanctifies them as being the Captain of their salvation. You see things such as, "He who sanctiifes and those who are sanctified are one." So, if Christ did taste death for every man, you have a world wide sanctification. Then, you end up having a myriad of sanctified peoples burning in torment. This is what I was referring to having an atonement that didn't atone. A blood w/o any saving power. If Christ died for every man w/o excpetion, and peopled died in their sins, that's a weak atonement, a blood that doesn't blot out sins, and a Saviour who is just a bystander. But, let's not stop here.....



"And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethrenthat he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted."(vss 13-18)



Look at what I bolded and underlined. You'll see things like "Behold I and the children which God hath given Me", and also "And deliver them who through fear of death", and also "it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethern." These phrases have a set of peoples in mind, and not a world wide view. He is going to deliver them who fear of death. Too many people have no fear of death in their eyes, and they'll die lost. And the bible backs this claim of mine up.....


"The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes. For he flattereth himself in his own eyes, until his iniquity be found to be hateful. The words of his mouth are iniquity and deceit: he hath left off to be wise, and to do good. He deviseth mischief upon his bed; he setteth himself in a way that is not good; he abhorreth not evil."(Psalms 36:1-4)


"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes."(Romans 3:10-18)



People who have no fear of God, most assuredly have no fear of death. Look at all the suicide bombers over the last several years. I saw some footage of a mother doting over her son, because he was going to die for their cause. She looked at him with such a prideful look. You'd thought he had just graduated from a major university. But he was preparing to die, and she was admiring him. These people have no desire whatsoever to be reconciled to God via Jesus' shed blood.


Jesus came to die for His sheep(John 10:15). He prayed for them and not the world(John 17:9). He came because He was predestined to die for them and atone for their sin(Revelation 5:6, 5:12, and 13:8).


If He did taste death for every man w/o excpetion, it's a mighty weak atonement, imo......



Oh, and I also never use scripture, so I guess I parrotted this off someone else...

 

Okay Brother Sapper Woody, look at it like this. The New Testament is a will, the "last will and testament of Jesus Christ". Now, when does this will take affect? Is it before or after death? Of course it takes affect after the one who has the will written dies.

"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth."(Hebrews 9:15-17)


Now, say you have a "last will and testament". Would you leave you possession to your children, grandchildren....i.e....those in your family....or would you leave for everyone w/o exception, and all they have to do is come and get it? You would have your will fixed so that your children would get what you once possessed before you died. Now, if you have no children, you would still have someone(s) designated to get what you left behind, and not to any and all w/o exception. That's the way the New Testament....Jesus' "last will and testament" is designed. Those who Jesus died for, will get what the NT promised. His "Goods" weren't intended for any and all w/o exception, but those for who His "last will and testament" was designed for.


"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.(Romans 8:14-17)


So you see, we are adopted into the family of God via the Spirit of reconciliation, and we thereby, receive what Christ bestows to His sheep. We get the inheritance that was promised via the NT, Jesus' "last will and testament"....

We= Church.....

But what do I know....I never use scriptures and I must have parrotted this off of someone else...

 

You used to use scripture a lot more, check out these posts.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1947993&postcount=84
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1947613&postcount=58
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1947663&postcount=62
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1947879&postcount=75
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1948954&postcount=47
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1946924&postcount=1
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1946927&postcount=3
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1946951&postcount=5
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1947045&postcount=11
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1947047&postcount=13
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1947060&postcount=16
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1947076&postcount=18
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1947320&postcount=31
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1947353&postcount=34
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1948954&postcount=47
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1975614&postcount=105
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1975621&postcount=107
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1975621&postcount=107
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1975647&postcount=112
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1973693&postcount=54
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1974340&postcount=77
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1969575&postcount=1
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1969597&postcount=5

 

See Willis, you used to quote scripture like this;

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1946951&postcount=5

You sure have changed.

 

See Willis, you used to say regeneration equals salvation, now you say the opposite.

You are the one who said this Willis, I am not putting words in your mouth.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1947060&postcount=16

So Willis, you say all sorts of things, who knows what you are going to say next?

 

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1946924&postcount=1

This was a thread YOU started to oppose Calvinism.

 

Think even more basic distinction is just what is the basis of salvation? Both would affirm its due to the cross of Christ, yet only Calvinists actually would say that Jesus death actually purchased some back, while arms/non cals would say that he provided "potential salvation"
BOTH would say that it woulod be due to the death/resurrec

 

In Calvinism the man is elect. God chose YOU.

In the non-Cal/Arminian view, God chose Jesus.

Mat 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

In non-Cal/Arminian view, Jesus is the "elect one", the "chosen" one, "my beloved". We are only made accepted "in the beloved". That is, we are only elect because we have been baptized into Jesus who is the elect one.

Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

One view makes man preeminent, the other view makes Christ preeminent.

Judge for yourself.

 

Exactly and thank God.......so why bother to blend the two? To do that is ridiculous ....unless its about money?

 

Yes, it is Calvinism that makes man preeminent and says God chose man. John MacArthur understands Calvinism perfectly, he said, "God chose ME".

 

Yep. Synergism and Monergism respectively.

The Synergist says man's will is supreme and God reacts to it.

The Monergist says Christ is supreme and a powerful savior who actually grants salvation to whomever he will. And no one can restrain his hand or say to him, ‘What have You done?'

 

Lol, ain't that the truth:

26 For behold your calling, brethren, that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong;
28 and the base things of the world, and the things that are despised, did God choose, yea and the things that are not, that he might bring to nought the things that are:
29 that no flesh should glory before God.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption:
31 that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. 1 Cor 1

The one view most definitely makes man preeminent, it reeks with the big "I" of the flesh, "I" chose, "I" decided, "I" accepted, "I" received, "I" put myself in Christ Jesus.

The other view gives all the glory to God because it accepts the simple truth, 'of Him are ye in Christ Jesus'.

 

It is refreshing to know that the "man is preeminent" position is acknowledged by those holding to it.

 

You are a little mixed up, you are quoting scripture, not the Calvinist view. Yes, scripture makes Christ preeminent. But Calvinism places man before Christ.

John MacArthur got it, he was quite plain.

John MacArthur says the only reason he is a Christian is because God chose HIM. Nothing about Jesus there. God chose HIM, and then decided to give him faith so he could believe on Jesus.

Jesus is secondary in Calvinism, his purpose was to come and die for the elect so he could save them. He is sort of the elect's servant. And it is true that you have to believe on Jesus to be saved. But the reason John MacArthur is a Christian is because God chose HIM and gave him the faith so he could believe on Jesus. It is all about John MacArthur (and the other elect as well).

There it is fellas, plain as day.

You guys don't even understand your own doctrine. :laugh:

 

Lying up a storm will not advance your cause winman. You are transparently dishonest.