Featured Atonement

All these mis-interpretations of scripture reminds me of the master of the old south plantation that gathered all his slaves around him and began to quote scripture. "Servants, this is what Jesus said to do if you disobey me". And the servant which knew his Lords will and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes, Luke 12:47. Some people interpret scripture to suite themselves.

 

Amen! :thumbs:

 

Does the bible not state that while we were yet sinners, Jesus died for us?

So being one of the elect of God means that after je has saved us, there can be no comdemnation, but we were still dosobedient sinners under that until salvation came unto us, correct?

 

So does that verse support salvation apart from faith for the elect? If not, how?

 

Don't forget it's elect according to the foreknowledge of God. The question is why they have been chosen. Was it willy nilly or was it due to faith placed in Christ?

 

The Election by God hough was from his will, not Him seeing their fact, correct?

 

Neither, due the Will of God!

 

Scripture is clear, 1Pt1:2, "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied".

Through the obedience of Jesus Christ, and the sanctification of the Spirit.

To whom was this election purposed?

John1:12, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name".

John3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

John3:36, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him".

How is this foreknowledge of election demonstrated in the scripture?

John10:14, "I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine".

John10:16, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd".

John10:26-27, "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me".

Just to mention a few.

 

It was the will of God to institute an election. The debate is whether or not God had any purpose in this or whether He just decided to randomly pick and choose here and there. I believe God had a purpose and it was intentional.

 

Amen! :thumbs:

 

steaver, here is the rest of it. John 1:13. Which were born not of blood, nor of the will of man, but of God. The many that received him were first born of God to be able to receive Christ.

 

He's got that straIght!!! Amen!!!!

 

God does not ask a person to be born again, God asked that you believe on Jesus Christ. Only then does God, and God alone by Gods will alone, does He perform the miracle of rebirth.

 

No need to apologize for presenting your view, shared with other Calvinists. I do not (a real news flash) accept that a person can be chosen, elected individually, before creation, and not be considered elect until saved. That simply redefines the meaning of the word to fit Calvinism into the text.

If we change or add to the text, such as no charge can be brought against the elect, once they are saved, we are nullifying scripture, making it to no effect.

And again if we were simply comparing two verses, Romans 8:33 and Ephesians 1:4, you would seem to have a plausible view. But when we stack up a half dozen verses against your questionable view of Ephesians 1:4, you side loses plausibility.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen through faith in the truth. Now could we have faith in the truth before we heard the gospel? Nope, faith comings from hearing. We can reconcile these two verses by observing Ephesians 1:4 refers to a corporate, rather than individual election. When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose corporately, those the Redeemer would redeem. Hence, He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.

Now, with that view, all the verses fit together. When we are chosen individually through faith in the truth, we are placed in Christ, and thus no charge can be brought against God's elect.

Still not convinced, consider 1 Peter 2:9-10 where we lived without mercy, and were not a people, but then were a chosen people, and had obtained mercy.

Next how about James 2:5, where God chose those poor to the world, yet rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love him. So yet again we have God choosing individuals not before creation, but during their lives after are rich in faith and love God.

Need more, how about 1 Corinthians 1:26-30 with God choosing individuals to shame others living on earth. All these elections of individuals found in scripture are conditional and occur during the lifetime of the individual.

At the end of the day, you will say, Van you cannot be right because we have 400 years of very bright and godly scholars all saying Calvinism's view is right. But the fact is we also have 400 years where very bright and godly scholars have been saying Calvinism is wrong. JonC, what if both were right, in seeing the other side was wrong.