Featured A Tale of Two Faiths

The only verse that is relevant is Matthew 6?? Hardly.
The word "fool" is used 69 times in the Bible and the word "foolish" 52 times.
The meaning of the word is not found in the one verse that you inserted into this thread. You are way off base.

 

DHK

No one questions that salvation is the gift of God. We just understand that part of that Gift are repentance and faith that God grants to His people.

8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift,


You deny that because you do not understand the fall properly and have only a wounded Adam.even though the scripture shows fallen man as dead.
You deny this as well disputing the word corpse being used by the Spirit in scripture. It does not fit you explanation so you undermine any teaching that is different from your ideas.

Your attempt to explain away the work of God will not fly...Peter was quite clear;


17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

God granted repentance and faith to the nations. he graced them with it. It was God's action.

You cannot have it both ways. When I describe to you EZK 36 as a new heart transplant , you deny it is for the church or part of the new birth...here you say there is nothing unusual? It was a supernatural work of God...He did it all and it resulted in repentance and faith on her part.

No...I guess I do not hold to your man centered fleshly approach to "salvation"

 

Salvation is the gift of God, not faith. It does not say there that the gift of God is faith no matter how you look at it. If one diagrams the sentence they can see the grammar more easily. Salvation is the gift of God, not faith.

All you can do here is play your word games and follow after the philosophy of Calvin without providing any scripture for your philosophy. I have given support for my stand with scripture. I am not the who is either confused or in denial; that would be you.
Yes, fallen man is dead. I agree. But the question is "what does 'dead' mean?" Your definition is not scriptural.

I don't explain anything away. This was a historic time in the history of Christianity. Salvation had come to the Gentiles, as it had previously come to the Jews. This is the way that Peter had explained it to them. What did he say previously?
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
--This is the event that he was referring to when explaining it to his Hebrew brethren. It was the same "pentecost" as it were, the receiving of the Holy Spirit, for the Gentiles. It happened one time in history.

Christ never referenced Ezekiel 36, and that reference has nothing to do with John 3. No wonder you are confused. You have become too allegorical for your own usefulness. You can't explain John 3 without reference to Ezekiel 3, when Christ didn't refer to Ezekiel 3. That is sad indeed.
What did Christ refer to?
He referred to an OT passage that took place in Numbers 21:8,9
The illustration Christ used was an illustration that required faith.

I referred to a passage of Scripture. If that is what you think it teaches then your understanding is very shallow.
I believe that salvation is all of God, and like Christ taught by referring to Numbers 21, must be received by faith.

 

And is there anyone on this board who denies that?
Do you have a point to this post?

 

:wavey::thumbsup::wavey:

 

:applause::applause::applause::wavey:

 

Howdy Icon,

I hope my posts to you are as civil as Rebels. Also, I hope you can detect more civil language out of me than two years ago. I do notice that some will never learn. Why we cannot just exchange ideas on the issue, and leave the person alone I do not know. I am highly offended by the word "fool" especially in a spiritual context. What gets in my craw the most is a leader of a New Testament church slinging words around like a typical sailor. They may not be the same words, but for someone in Christ, the words heretic and fool are as offensive as any curse word we have invented. You are a better man than I because I will not exchange any more posts with a certain poster. It will lead to nothing but trouble. Also, have you heard about Tom Butler. If not you might want to go to the Baptist discussion section. Be safe out there on the highway.

 

Have already began to pray about Tom.... I just try and stick to scripture....the others attack it.Everyone can see what is happening .

 

And so they were. But what does it mean to be "spiritually dead"?
As Adam was, they also were spiritually dead--but Adam was simply separated from God, which is the meaning of "spiritually dead." (separation")

1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints,
All the redeemed in Christ are "called to be saints." We are called to be holy."
We are called to do good. Yes we are called; called for a purpose.

Knowledge is knowledge, unless you are claiming to have received divine revelation as the apostles did. In that case you would be making the same claims that Ellen G. White, Charles Russell, most cult leaders and many Charismatics make. They claim to receive direct revelation from God. But God has ceased giving revelation. The canon of scripture is closed. All that we need to know about salvation is reveled to us in His Word.

You are speaking like a mystic. Do you base your salvation on the Word or on your experiences?

At the time Peter said that the NT had not been written. We don't need direct revelation from God to declare the deity of Christ. Either you believe the Bible or you don't. It is called faith.

Salvation is by faith.
When the jailer came trembling before Paul, and asking: "What must I do to be saved?" What did Paul say?
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
And so he did. He believed. It was his faith. He trusted Christ. He put his confidence in Christ as Lord. What else can you take from that passage.
And so we read in dozens of other scriptures the same thing. Salvation is by faith. Faith is not a work. However, Jesus taught if you don't have faith as a child you cannot enter into the kingdom of God. A child's faith is innate.

It sounds like you are basing your salvation on experience and not the Word of God. It sounds like a wonderful testimony. Your life was changed. But did you trust Christ as your Savior?

Where in the Bible does it say that one is saved by "the Doctrines of Grace"?
It doesn't. It is Christ that saves, not the DoG. One is saved by faith in Christ, not through the theology of Calvin. I was not saved in a church either. I did put my faith and trust in Christ however, and I know the place and day that it happened. I can remember that event. I came face to face with the truth of the gospel. It is the gospel that revealed Christ to me.

These subjects are totally irrelevant to salvation--to regeneration, justification, salvation, etc. Why would they hinder anyone from coming to Christ?

This is a Cal/Arm debate board where various issues relating to Calvinism are discussed or debated. They have nothing to do with salvation or a person coming to Christ. No one needs to know anything about TULIP in order to be saved; in order to come to Christ; in order to be regenerated, etc.
"They cannot see it." Perhaps you are the one that cannot see it.
Everyone claims to be right, but obviously not everyone is.

The answer to "How do you know that you are saved?" is by your experience, study, examination, and then finally it is a conclusion that it must be "his free will of good pleasure..."
It sounds like you have no assurance of salvation. How can you be sure that you are one of the elect?

Peter says:
2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure:
John says:
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
--Eternal life is in Jesus Christ.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
--Faith on the name of the Son of God brings eternal life.
It gives eternal life in such an assuring way that the believer can know they have eternal life, and not doubt it. But that assurance comes by faith.

And I have answered that question. I believed and they didn't.

Your logic is wrong. We will all give account of ourselves before God.
If they continue (as all unbelievers continue) to reject God, then they will give account before the Great White Throne Judgement. Believers will still give account before the Judgement Seat of Christ. We are all responsible for our actions and decisions that we make on this earth, and that includes trusting Christ.

Why is this a dilemma for you. You make it a dilemma because you base it upon a false premise. A false premise leads to a false conclusion.

According to Calvinism how do you know that is true?
How can you be so sure that you are one of the elect that he loves?
Salvation is by faith.

 

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
God loves all men. God sends no one to hell.
Those who end up in hell go there because they reject Christ.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

That is true, but for the grace of God, someone obeyed the Great Commission and shared the gospel with me.

Why imagine? What a ridiculous straw-man. Such a conversation could never take place.

He loves everyone. There is no one on this earth that he does not love.
He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

He shed his blood for all--all in the world.
However, only those who believe will go to heaven. Over and over the Bible emphasizes the need for faith.

 

He gives you Scripture References that give assurance of Salvation and you claim that that he does not know he is saved? How does that even make sense?

No one is disputing that. Although I find it Ironic that you quote a verse that shows Election to be true.

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So apparently you don't believe that Bible here since Jesus makes it clear that God revealed to Peter that Jesus is the Christ.
I'm a Dispensationalist as well and I even think this argument is weak to say that this in the Gospels and therefore doesn't count since the NT was not written yet. If you are going to go with this line of argument you can't use anything in the Gospels to prove any of your points and yet you love to quote John 3:16. So either you can use the Gospels or you can't. Jesus says that it is the Father that reveals the Truth to us, not flesh and blood. All Scripture is useful to us, not just the portions we deem relevant to our day and age.

 

Sister, do you believe non-Cals don't think election is true??

 

No that's funny.....:laugh:

 

No...it is sad Steaver. DHK just denied most of the NT by his statements. [using verses in a wrong way is not to have those verses]

Give an explanation of election for us so we can see what you believe about it. Just using the word without content does not show belief in it.RC's use the word grace, but actually mean works.

 

blessedwife318

It does not!

he cannot explain that verse correctly:thumbsup:
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:thumbsup:

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Many of us have left dispensationalism behind because of how as a system it fragments the word of God rather than seeing it as a whole unit that blends together.
They use the phrase "rightly dividing" when they wrongly fragment the word.

 

When I got saved I knew little of the Bible. The first thing I was taught was Scripture that gave one an assurance of salvation. I quoted a couple of them already.
"He that hath the son hath life." (I had just trusted Him as my Savior; I knew he, by the power of the Holy Spirit dwelt within me).

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
--John writes to them that have believed on the name of the Son of God that they may know (not hope so, or guess so) but know that they have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
I had believed. Therefore I had everlasting life; I would not come into condemnation. I was no longer in a state of spiritual death, but had life.

And there are many more.
Most result from the fact that one has believed or exercised faith in the Savior.

I don't deny election; I deny Calvin's misuse of the term and redefinition of it.

This was Peter's Great Confession. Christ Himself said that this statement about Peter recognizing the Messiahship of Christ was a direct revelation from the Father. God doesn't speak to us in that manner.

Peter, later went on to say:
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
--This time has finished. The revelation of God is complete in the Book of Revelation, the last book of the Bible. God no longer speaks to us the way he revealed things to Peter.

Consider also:
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
--In the past he spoke through audible voices, dreams, visions, etc. (sundry times, and in divers manners), but now he speaks to us "by his Son" which is through his Word.

The Gospels do count and everything in the Gospels are for us today.
But Christ is no longer in the flesh today. God doesn't speak to us as he spoke to Christ during His baptism or on the Mount of transfiguration. We don't see things as His ascension. He doesn't perform miracles before our eyes. We don't walk on water. These are historical events that we read about, not perform.
Revelation is progressive.
God spoke to Moses in a burning bush. That doesn't mean he will speak to us in the same manner. Likewise he won't speak to us in the same manner that he did to Peter.

 

So DHK, how do you define the word elect and its various forms as we find it in English versions? You certainly will acknowledge that God does the choosing --the election of His own, correct?

You will admit that only the elect will be saved --right?