Featured Did God predestine ISIS & Boko Haram to rape, torture, kill the Christians?

Article continued

"But there are many who admit the foreknowledge of God, and yet deny His determinate counsel, on which the certainty of all the events of time depends. Men may have a limited foreknowledge of things which God has made certain by His determinate counsel and irrevocable decrees, as it is said, ‘The living know that they must die;’ but God’s foreknowledge depends on nothing outside of Himself, for He has challenged the universe to tell with whom He has taken counsel, or who has instructed Him. To us it seems perfectly clear that nothing could be foreknown that was undetermined, and that the foreknowledge and determinate counsel of God are inseparable.

It is also generally admitted that in the salvation of His people, ‘Whom He did foreknow, them He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29).’ but that the well-beloved Son of God was delivered into the wicked hands of men to be crucified by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, is not so readily admitted. The wicked works of those who crucified the Lord of glory were not foreknown by His murderers; but it was foreknown and determined of God, Peter said, to those whom he charged with the wickedness of killing the Prince of life. ‘I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all His prophets, that Christ should suffer, He hath so fulfilled (Acts 3:17,18).’ ‘For of a truth against Thy Holy Child Jesus, whom Thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, for to do whatsoever Thy hand and Thy counsel determined before to be done (Acts 4:27,28).’

The wickedness of men in betraying and crucifying our Lord had been positively predicted from the days of Abel, in what God spake to the fathers by the prophets, and by what was signified by all the offerings which were made under the former dispensation. The pieces of silver for which He was betrayed were counted and declared hundreds of years before Judas was born; and the dividing of His garments, and the lot cast for His seamless robe, was determined of God and declared by the prophets. The history of Joseph, and the wickedness of his brethren, was in fulfillment of his dreams, and in accordance with the purpose in which Joseph said, God meant it for good.

It has been said by some that these great events which God has overruled for good were ordered of the Lord, but that the smaller matters, and the wickedness of men, were not predestinated. Our Savior has informed us that the determinate counsel of God in His all-pervading providence numbers the hairs of our head, so that not a hair can fall to the ground without Him; even the little sparrows are protected, and the ravens are provided with food by His determinate counsel. And Paul assures us that, ‘We know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose.’

It seems to us unreasonable, as well as unscriptural, to say that the government of God directs and controls some things, and that other things are left to the control of men or devils. If God’s government extends only to the good deeds of men, then is His absolute government totally excluded; for ‘As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one (Romans 3:10-12).’ We would not limit the government of our God, nor, because we cannot comprehend His designs, dare to say He has no designs.

Men act voluntarily when they commit sin; they have no more knowledge of or respect for the purpose of God, than Joseph’s brethren or Potiphar’s wife had in his case, for there is no fear of God before their eyes. It is even so with the princes of this world; if they had known Jesus, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But it was needful that Joseph should be cast into prison, and it was expedient that Christ should suffer, therefore that knowledge was withheld from the persecutors of Joseph and of Jesus, until they should fill up the cup of their wickedness. And it is thus in the wisdom of God that the world by wisdom shall not know Him. Yet such is the wisdom, power and righteous government of our God that He can and does set the exact bounds by which the wickedness of men and devils is limited, and beyond which they cannot go. Satan is bound a thousand years with a great chain, and after the thousand years he shall be loosed for a short time. With all his rage and malice he is restricted by the supreme power and decree of God, to do no more nor less than what God will overrule for the good of His people and for His own glory. And thus also, ‘God, willing to shew His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction,’ as in the case of Pharaoh and the Egyptians, hardening the heart of Pharaoh until all the plagues and judgments were accomplished, and His own almighty power and glory were then made known in delivering the Hebrews, and in overwhelming Pharaoh and his host in the Red Sea. ‘Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth He yet find fault? For who hath resisted His will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus (Romans 9:17-22)?’

The Apostle, fully aware of the disposition of the carnal mind to cavil and reply against the sovereignty of God in the execution of His pleasure, did not attempt to apologize for God, or so to modify the doctrine as to render it less objectionable to the carnal mind; but he called attention to the infinite disparity between the infinitely wise, holy and omnipotent God, who holds our everlasting destiny, and by whose longsuffering we are permitted to live, and poor, finite, depraved, short-sighted man, and the daring presumption and extreme folly of questioning the justice or wisdom of God in working all things after the counsel of His own will. We regard it as a very serious matter to charge that God cannot govern the world, by His own determinate counsel, wisdom and power, according to the eternal and immutable design or purpose purposed in Himself before the world began, without subjecting Himself to the charge of being the author of sin. Sin is the transgression of a law under which the transgressor is justly held amenable, and to the penalty of which he is subject. But we have endeavored to show that God is under no law but that of His own will and pleasure, and therefore He doeth His pleasure in the armies of Heaven and among the inhabitants of earth. He could by no law be held under obligation to leave the affairs of this world or any part of them to be governed by chance, or by the will of men. As He is in one mind, and none can turn Him, His purposes are eternal, like Himself. His decrees being perfect from everlasting, admit of no improvement or change. If He had not the right to predestinate all things pertaining to the events of time before He created the world, we ask what right has He acquired subsequently to execute the orders of His throne? If it had been His pleasure to have prevented sin from entering into the world, can we doubt His power or wisdom or ability to have done so? If sin has entered this world in opposition to His will, or because He had not the wisdom and power to prevent its entrance, what assurance have we that it will not also enter the world to come? But it is to our mind far more consistent with what God has graciously made known to us of His being and attributes to believe that God had a purpose worthy of Himself, however inscrutable to us, in regard to the entrance of sin, as well as in regard to all things else. He bids us ‘Be still, and know that He is God.’ To our feeble mind the conclusion is unavoidable, that the predestination of God either controls all things or nothing.

We look at a vast complicated machine, with its ten thousand wheels. We cannot comprehend or understand its workings, but we are told that the machinist has a perfect knowledge of all its parts save one; there is a definite use for every wheel and spring, but one is held in the machine which has no certain motion or definite use. How long could that machine run in safety, with the unruly part liable at any moment to throw the whole into confusion? We cannot see how any part of the government of God can be absolute and secure, if God has not the undivided government of the whole in all its parts; and if He has today the full control, had He not the same control yesterday and forever? If He has not the full control today, is there any certainty that He will have tomorrow or at any future period? If we admit that God absolutely governs all things according to the counsel of His own will, and that He is immutable, then we must admit that He has determined what shall and what shall not transpire in time or in eternity. But to deny His universal control of all things, including all principalities and powers, thrones and dominions, things present or to come, whether they be visible or invisible, is to deny that He is the God of the whole earth, and virtually deny His eternal power and Godhead. If He has not the power and wisdom to determine all events, how can He cause all things to work together for good to them that love Him?"

 

Final part of article

"But while we hold that He is supreme in power, and that He works all things after the counsel of His own will, we are certain that He reigns in righteousness, and that there is no unrighteousness with Him. To admit the universal government of God is to admit the predestination of all things, from the falling of a sparrow to the dissolution of a world. In the absence of predestination, with what certainty could the Holy Ghost inspire the holy prophets and Apostles to foretell all that should ever come to pass? If it were undetermined in the purpose of God, how could the Apostles tell us of perilous times that should come in the last days, or apostasy from the faith, and spiritual wickedness in high places?

But we will submit these remarks to the consideration of our readers, and desire that what we have written may be carefully tested by the infallible standard, the Scriptures, and received only so far as they are sustained by the word and Spirit of our God.

October, 1880"

 

That is what calvinists here would call God being sovereign, as he brought to pass what he had already determined would get done, and yet he still allowed the wicked parties to "have their own way"

 

Brother Eliyahu,

Sin did not enter into this world in opposition to his will. If it had, the following verse written by Paul would not be true, " him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:" (Ephesians 1:11b) God states he works all things, not some things, after his will. God willed that sinners be in existence. Without sin there would be no need for Jesus to enter the world to accomplish God's plan of redemption. Is it sin for God to will that sin come into existence? No because the Bible tells us "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (1 John 3:4), thus Elder Beebe wrote correctly, "God is under no law but that of His own will and pleasure, and therefore He doeth His pleasure in the armies of Heaven and among the inhabitants of earth. He could by no law be held under obligation to leave the affairs of this world or any part of them to be governed by chance, or by the will of men."

 

Brother Eliyahu, God willing that sin come into existence does not make God the author of sin. Please permit me to explain. An act alone does not constitute sin, but the righteousness or unrighteousness of an act is determined by the motive prompting the act. If a physician causes his fellowman great pain and suffering and even death by the amputation of a limb in an effort to do him good, no one would condemn that physician of wrong doing; but if he causes him pain or suffering or death by amputating a limb in malice and with an intention of doing him harm, that physician is guilty of wrong. God has a holy and sinless motive in all that He does, in all that He causes to be done and in all that He allows to be done, and intends that each thing done shall redound to the praise of that holy and exalted purpose, and so it matters not how sinful and vile the act may be when performed by man with a corrupt motive, God’s motive and purpose in the act being most holy He is not and can not be chargeable with sin; and yet the very same act which He has appointed to issue in His praise and redound to His glory is a vile transgression on the part of the one who performed it, as his design was evil.

To illustrate, when God sent the king of Assyria against Israel with the charge God declares “I dispatch him against a people who anger me, to seize loot and snatch plunder, and to trample them down like mud in the streets.” (Isaiah 10:6), God continues, “But this is not what he (the king of Assyria) intends,
this is not what he has in mind; his purpose is to destroy, to put an end to many nations”. (Isaiah 10:7) The wickedness was not put in the heart of the king by God’s decree, but it was already there. But God then states, “Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed His whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks. For he saith, by the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom...” (Isaiah 10:12-13) Read the entire 10th chapter of Isaiah. This wicked king did the very thing God determined, but he was not moved in the least to do it by God’s decree; he was entirely ignorant of that, but was actuated by an evil motive to cut off and destroy, thus God punished him for this! Thus we see that an act does not determine if something is sin, but the motive prompting the act, thus God can will that sin exist, but not be the author of sin.

God bless you brother Eliyahu. I have enjoyed studying this subject with you dear brother.

 

Brother Eliyahu,

I will be busy through Tuesday with my family, but Lord willing I will respond to your posts Tuesday night. I just wanted to post to let you know I have read your messages, and hope to reply Tuesday night.

 

No!.........

 

Brother Eliyahu,

Your unspoken assumption above is that God is obligated to be merciful to all sinners by predestinating to save everybody in the whole human race. If mercy is obligated it is no longer grace. The very essence of mercy and grace is that it is undeserved. God may owe people justice, but never mercy.

God already answered your objection above by in reply in scripture (please read the black highlighted verses, "11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." and "18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?" (Romans 9:11,13-15,18-20)

Furthermore, even if one accepts your premise that God is obligated to provide opportunity to all, then it follows that He is also obligated to give equal opportunity to all, yet experience plainly shows He has not done this. For example, the grace to hear and believe the gospel has obviously not been communicated to all men throughout history (e.g. Indians before Columbus arrived). ) Also, the scriptures teach that God's corrective chastisement is upon all He loves. But the scriptures also teach that not all are under this chastisement (Ps 93:12-13, 1Cor 11:32, Heb 12:6-8, Rev 3:19), thus he does not love everybody.

Brother Eliyahu,

God did not, to use your words above, have to "program and insert unbelief and wicked minds" into unbelievers. The fall of Adam corrupted the whole human race as we were present in seed form, this is why Romans declares, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" (Romans 5:12)

According to the meaning of the word predestination, as given in our standard dictionaries and the greek meaning of the work used in the New Testament, it applies only to the predetermination of an act. Some things God predetermined to do, while other things he predetermined others should do. God directly predetermined to do all acts of good on this earth and he predetermined that others would do all the acts of evil on this earth, but he has uses these evil acts to produce a greater good- Take for example, the crucifixion of Christ, the most evil act of mankind ever-was of God's predetermined plan according to scripture. "And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!" (Luke 22:22) Also, "26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. (Acts 4:26-28) and finally, "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain" (Acts 2:23). He used these acts to bruise his Son, make him Sin, thus redeeming his people so they can live with and in him for all of eternity. This is the greatest act of love this world has or ever will see.

The wickedness was already there in the Assyrian King's heart due to the fall of Adam (see Romans 5:12). God did not have to create unbelief, wickedness, etc in mankind. The fall of Adam did that. God predetermined that the Assyrian King would attack the Israelites, used this according to his purpose to chastise the Israelites, then punished the Assyrian King for his wicked intent when he conquered the Israelites.

If I can show that he predestinated one sin, my point is gained, that God can predestinate sin, but still remain not being the author of sin. It has been shown from numerous scriptures in this post that God predestinated the crucifixion of Christ(see Luke 22:22, Acts 4:26-28, and 2:23) . Will any one deny that the crucifixion was determined by the hand and counsel of God! Peter said they had killed the Prince of peace. Was their act not embraced in predestination? Therefore the assumption that he predestinates only what be does by his own hand, is illogical, unscriptural and untrue. When the Lord by the mouth of the prophet Isaiah declared, “It pleased the Lord to bruise him,” he did not see fit to tell the people then how he would do it, but we know now that it was by the hand of wicked men. These men acted voluntarily, yet their act was predestinated.


Brother Joseph

 

Brother Eliyahu,

Please tell me, before the world was created when God intended the events of time, did He intend the events of time should be as they are and have been or some other way? Also, in your concept of foreknowledge, did God make his plans after what he "foreknew" men would do, if so, why would he give up His freedom by in essence making the determination of Hs will subject to the will and actions of men?