Featured Calvinism's conumdrum, Is God the Author of sin?

Calvinists must hold, by their own view of predestination, that God is the author of sin. Everything has been predetermined by Him.
You are unwilling to say that God gave Satan a will to choose.
You are unwilling to say that God gave Adam a will to choose.
You are unwilling to say that anyone has a will to choose.
No Calvinist would.
Thus the logical outcome of SBM:

That is his conclusion, not mine.
Why are you arguing with me? I am not the one that believes God is the author of sin. You, the Calvinist, believes this way.

 

No Calvinist would...that's a broad false generalization.

 

I have news for you. DHK has a stockpile of lies that he attributes to Calvinists.

He has repeatedly claimed that we:

think that God randomly chose people for His own
think that we are robots (he never tires of this particular falsehood)
think that we don't evangelize because we belive in the five points
think we are hyper-Calvinists because we believe in the five points

It becomes so absurd. He doesn't deal with facts --he simply makes things up along the way or uses stale material like David Cloud's junk. His "documentation" has been doctored when he lamely offers citations.

 

Why aren't you addressing the one who made the statement in the first place?
He is one of your own!
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2210542&postcount=59

It is SBM that said:

"He is, He is the Author and Maker of the ones who sinned. When they sinned they only did what He authored, determined, destined for them to do ! The God I serve and Worship is the Author of sin for His Redemptive Purpose in Christ !"

 

So exceptions to the general rule are what you depend upon.

You ignore Confessions of Faith. You conveniently ignore what Calvinist preachers/authors/theologians have written and go merrily on your way misrepresenting with no pangs of conscience.

 

What on earth are you talking about.
Just a few posts back #59, one of your own, SBM, declared that "God is the author of sin."
That is not my belief, it is yours.

I could add to that list a half a dozen others if I took the time to look it up.
Not all Cals believe it, but IMO, those who are consistent in their Calvinistic theology will admit that that is the logical conclusion they must come to. That is what I have said and that is what I stand by.

NOTE: I am not a Cal. and therefore it is not my belief. (as some seem to think).
2. I am not saying it is your belief or some others here. I am saying that the logical outcome of Calvinism is that God is the author of sin.
I didn't say you believed that. Maybe you are not logical or thinking things through.

This has nothing to do with the CoF or any other document.
This is a debate. I am expressing my belief about Calvinism and its doctrinal outcome when logically worked out.
You should be questioning SBM, not me.

 

My post #65 is very clear. If it sounds mysterious to you then you need ESL training.

You are a hypocrite. You say it is my belief. Then later in this same post of yours you declare:"I didn't say you believed that."

It is not my belief that God is the author of sin. The more you say it --the more you sin.

Again, you revel in the exceptions to the rule. Mainstream Calvinists i.e. 99.9% of them do not believe what you ascribe to them. So...quit your lying DHK.

While earlier in this post of yours you tell me I believe that nonsense. You are a hypocrite.

Of course it does. You cannot afford to dismiss Calvinistic Confessions of Faith if you want to maintain a semblance of objectivity.

SMB does not represent the views of 99.9% of Calvinists --don't pretend otherwise.

I will certainly question you --your habitual misrepresentation of Calvinists is sinful. You need to fess up and fly right.

 

A false accusation. Or you don't understand what I was saying. Let it go.

Look, the above is your answer to what was said here:

Just a few posts back #59, one of your own, SBM, declared that "God is the author of sin."
That is not my belief, it is yours.

Now get a hold of yourself.
Post #59 is SBM's post; it is not what I said. It is what SBM said. He said that God is the author of sin. Not me! Go and read it again.
You are the one that is mixed up, confused and coming down with false accusations.
Take your argument up with your own Calvinist brother about God being the Author of sin; not me. I am not the one with that belief.

 

I had said that my post #65 was clear. Was that a false accusation?

You had said :"What on earth are you talking about."

I had said if that post of mine was mysterious to you then you need ESL training. My post was as plain as day. Is that a false accusation?

Remedial reading is what you need.

You had said:"That is not my belief, it is yours."

That which follows the comma of course, is one grand lie which you have felt compelled to utter time and time again.

When will you gain the composure to stop saying dishonest things DHK?

 

That's what it seems...and he has been unwilling to address my replies.

 

DHK

This ignorant statement is indefensible.No biblical Calvinist believes this so you posting it as if any biblical Calvinist holds this is a deliberate lie and mis-representation. To do this repeatedly demonstrates you are unfit to function as a teacher.

Reformed Baptists on this site have posted this from the 1689 confession...dozens of times;

This one quote shows your post to be wilfully ignorant .

Every biblical Calvinist knows and teaches that choice exists and men have self will.It is not free, but they have a will...so your post is useless.

SBM.....is a lone ranger, stop hiding behind him. He speaks for no Calvinist on the BB. He made the blasphemous post that God is the author of sin.
No responsible Cal says this.
So once again you create another strawman as you seek to cause division and confusion .

This is a lie. This is why several people have said you lie.....right here.

 

Here are some good links for you Icono:
https://whycalvinismiswrong.wordpress.com/2013/11/08/is-god-the-author-of-sin/

https://atheologyintension.wordpress.com/2012/07/14/calvinisms-inconsistency-and-incoherence/

https://wesleyanarminian.wordpress.com/2010/12/30/questions-for-calvinists/

BTW, If you have read carefully enough and often enough I have said that the logical end of believing in the tenets of Calvinism leads to one believing that God is the Author of sin.
I didn't say that is your belief, but rather the logical outcome of your belief.

See above.

When I said:
You are unwilling to say that anyone has a will to choose.
I wasn't speaking of self-will, but rather the choice to believe in Christ or not to believe in Christ which is more along the lines of free will.
The point is relevant, but personal attacks are not.

Luke 2427 also believes God is the author of sin. So do others.
I quote SBM because he said it recently. Thus it is no strawman. Or is that what you call other Calvinists that you disagree with.

Don't tell me it is a lie.
Go to post #59.
Read it. It is SBM's post where he posts: "God is the author of sin."
That is his post, his belief, not mine.
Why are you telling me it is a lie?

 

It is a lie because SBM is not a cal.

no cal believes this......no one agrees with him

luke has not posted in about a year....

the point is you will not quote any real Calvinist saying such blasphemy

 

Edwin Palmer:

“All things that happen in all the world at any time and in all history–whether inorganic matter, vegetation, animal, man or angels (both good and evil ones)– come to pass because God ordained them. Even sin– the fall of the devil from heaven, the fall of Adam, and every evil thought, word, and deed in all of history… Foreordination means God’s sovereign plan, whereby He decides all that is to happen in the entire universe. Nothing in this world happens by chance. God is in back of everything. He decides and causes all things to happen that do happen. He is not sitting on the sidelines wondering and perhaps fearing what is going to happen next. No, He has foreordained everything ‘after the counsel of his will’ (Eph. 1:11): the moving of a finger, the beating of a heart, the laughter of a girl, the mistake of a typist – even sin…Although sin and unbelief are contrary to what God commands…God has included them in his sovereign decree (ordained them, caused them to certainly come to pass).[/I]

 

He's using SBM as the straw man.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

 

The issue isn't about a "true" calvinist...Icon has said no "biblical" calvinist would endorse such views. However I will say that a biblical Calvinist is a true Calvinist.