Featured When Does Life Begin?

I have seen a bumper sticker that says it all IMHO....."if it is not a baby, then you are not pregnant!"

 

Well thank you OldRegular...you are obviously a gentleman, for saying so with caveat.

 

I have no idea how you can infer that, in a statement about when life begins, you can reach the conclusion that I must support abortion.

As I've said, even to you in the past, I do not support abortion at any point as I hold to a position of life.

Now, I do not hold that life begins at conception, but rather at fertilization and implantation. That position is not the agreed upon position of this board and I'll likely have this comment censored over it. That doesn't mean I support abortion. To believe that it does is a foolish claim. You can gripe at Crabby all you want, but please be respectful of the rest of us.

I do not support the Democrats or the Republicans...as I have stated about 1,000 times around here over the past several years. Both parties support continued legal abortion in practice and policy.

 

For my edification: What exactly is the difference? Are you saying not just fertilization, but when the fertilized egg actually implants? (because until it implants, it can still be flushed from the system)

 

Thank you and I accept.

Let's agree to disagree. I don't see much difference between the two parties, particularly at the national level. You have made fair points here.

 

I'm happy to talk about this, and if the moderators don't care for it I can't stop them from censoring this. Frankly, we need space to have open dialogues about matters like this where civil disagreement is permitted. This isn't a Gospel issue.

I have done my homework. To let you all in on a private part of my life, my family has struggled with infertility in the past and thankfully were able to overcome that barrier. In dealing with this, and doing research on it, I dug through volumes of medical journals about male and female infertility issues.

Once a sperm and egg join and fertilization occurs the next step (the hardest step) is implantation in the uteran wall. For some women this occurs easily. For others, it is a huge problem. In all women some fertilized embryoes fail to implant. These are viable embryoes where conception has already occurred.

In a rising number of women (infertility rates are 33% higher in Millennials than preceding generations) upwards of 65%-75% of embryoes do not implant in the uterus. These are embryoes where conception has already occurred. As I talked with our doctor, he said the average, across the known world, is that approximately 45% of embryoes do not implant.

So, after weighing this evidence (and this is boiled down) I came to the position that life begins after fertizliation and implantation in the uteran wall.

There are still instances where miscarriages occur following this. I honestly don't know what to do with that theologically. Anyways, that is my position. I've thought about it a lot and came these conclusions through prayer and research. Saying life begins at conception is something that doesn't work out scientifically. I appreciate folks who state this, but this is a signficant conversation where nuance must be allowed. By holding this position I continue to stand against any form of abortion.

I hope this helps the conversation here. You've had a great question, I hope I answered it.

 

This same thought crossed my mind as well.

If no implant occurs, then there is no reason to consider abortion.

 

One of the ways science works, particularly in dealing with medical problems is to study people under many circumstances. There have been thousands upon thousands of medical studies on women and the pregnancy process. Medical science knows very well the process from insemination to delivery. The stats I provided are available across hundreds of peer reviewed medical journals. Fertility specialists have made tremendous strides to assisting women with legitimate medical problems by studying things like this. There are other fertility treatment options than in vitro fertilization.

 

If no implantation exists the woman was never pregnant. You can't have an abortion if you're never pregnant.

 

Your semantical gymnastics does nothing to address the abortion topic.

 

I'm gonna have to spend a few days researching this. While I understand that "conception" is a vague term, most people accept it as when the egg is fertilized.

However, as folks have written here, I think we all agree that if it doesn't implant, then abortion doesn't enter into the equation. But the question of this thread wasn't about abortion per se; the main question was, when does life begin?

So far, what I've found is that the egg is fertilized, and the cells start dividing; this division satisfies the typical definition of life for "growing, constantly changing," etc. It does this even before it implants in the uterus.

So I tend to lean towards fertilization as the answer to the question; but, to remain honest and objective, I will do more research.

 

I still have to stick with from the moment of conception. I've always told folks, as you see throughout the rest of nature, if it's growing, it's alive.

The follicles mature(GROW) into eggs and the moment that growing egg binds with an alive sperm, a human life is formed and begins to grow. It doesn't matter if it hasn't implanted. Life has begun and if God doesn't want it to continue, HE does not allow the growing life to implant.

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I have to respectfully disagree. There's a scientific difference between an un fertilized egg being released every month and a fertilized egg not implanting.

The timing may be about the same. But the fertilized egg is alive and growing, but will take the same path as the unfertilized egg if it doesn't implant.

:thumbsup: