When Does Life Begin?

[OldRegular]

OR, you and I have been around this merry-go-round before and you refuse to listen and continue to libel me.

I do not stand for any abortion practices and have stood firmly with the pro-life camp for the entirety of my ministry.

That you continue to libel me on this board with slurs and accusations in spite of my continued replies that I do not affirm abortion is beyond unbelievable. It is, quite frankly, ignorant and mean spirited.

As a Christian brother, you have the responsibility to listen to me, once again, state that I, unequivocally, do not support abortion at any point once life begins. Please stop libeling me on this board.

I can only infer from your initial post that you have a problem with when life begins and if abortion is murder! I believe human life begins at conception and abortion is murder! If you have evidence otherwise then speak up!

I'd like to state my opinion but am not able.

Enjoy your day.

Do you support the party of death that celebrated abortion at its last national convention?

 

[Melanie]

I have seen a bumper sticker that says it all IMHO....."if it is not a baby, then you are not pregnant!"

 

[OldRegular]

I have seen a bumper sticker that says it all IMHO....."if it is not a baby, then you are not pregnant!"

Ms Melanie,

No matter what I believe is wrong with Roman Catholicism I really admire their stand against abortion. They were the first to take a strong stand against this slaughter while some others were shuffling their feet including Southern Baptists!

 

[Melanie]

Well thank you OldRegular...you are obviously a gentleman, for saying so with caveat.

 

[preachinjesus]

I can only infer from your initial post that you have a problem with when life begins and if abortion is murder! I believe human life begins at conception and abortion is murder! If you have evidence otherwise then speak up!

I have no idea how you can infer that, in a statement about when life begins, you can reach the conclusion that I must support abortion.

As I've said, even to you in the past, I do not support abortion at any point as I hold to a position of life.

Now, I do not hold that life begins at conception, but rather at fertilization and implantation. That position is not the agreed upon position of this board and I'll likely have this comment censored over it. That doesn't mean I support abortion. To believe that it does is a foolish claim. You can gripe at Crabby all you want, but please be respectful of the rest of us.

Do you support the party of death that celebrated abortion at its last national convention?

I do not support the Democrats or the Republicans...as I have stated about 1,000 times around here over the past several years. Both parties support continued legal abortion in practice and policy.

 

[OldRegular]

I have no idea how you can infer that, in a statement about when life begins, you can reach the conclusion that I must support abortion.

As I've said, even to you in the past, I do not support abortion at any point as I hold to a position of life.

Now, I do not hold that life begins at conception, but rather at fertilization and implantation. That position is not the agreed upon position of this board and I'll likely have this comment censored over it. That doesn't mean I support abortion. To believe that it does is a foolish claim. You can gripe at Crabby all you want, but please be respectful of the rest of us.

conception

2. fertilization; inception of pregnancy.

{http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conception}

I am sorry that I did not understand your position on abortion and I sincerely apologize!

I do not support the Democrats or the Republicans...as I have stated about 1,000 times around here over the past several years. Both parties support continued legal abortion in practice and policy.

You are incorrect. There is a vast difference between Republicans and democrats on the slaughter of the unborn as the democrat filibustering of the Human Trafficking Bill shows and the democrat celebration of this slaughter at their last national convention shows. It is also significant that Republican State Legislatures are passing laws limiting this slaughter.

 

[Don]

Now, I do not hold that life begins at conception, but rather at fertilization and implantation....

For my edification: What exactly is the difference? Are you saying not just fertilization, but when the fertilized egg actually implants? (because until it implants, it can still be flushed from the system)

 

[annsni]

That is not the question. Are they alive?

Yes, they are alive. But I do not believe they constitute an individual life until they join and new DNA is put together and this new being has a completely different genetic makeup than the mother or father. It shares some of it but it is not them exactly.

 

[annsni]

For my edification: What exactly is the difference? Are you saying not just fertilization, but when the fertilized egg actually implants? (because until it implants, it can still be flushed from the system)

Trust me. Even after fertilization, it can still be flushed from the system.

 

[preachinjesus]

I am sorry that I did not understand your position on abortion and I sincerely apologize!

Thank you and I accept.

You are incorrect. There is a vast difference between Republicans and democrats on the slaughter of the unborn as the democrat filibustering of the Human Trafficking Bill shows and the democrat celebration of this slaughter at their last national convention shows. It is also significant that Republican State Legislatures are passing laws limiting this slaughter.

Let's agree to disagree. I don't see much difference between the two parties, particularly at the national level. You have made fair points here.

 

[preachinjesus]

For my edification: What exactly is the difference? Are you saying not just fertilization, but when the fertilized egg actually implants? (because until it implants, it can still be flushed from the system)

I'm happy to talk about this, and if the moderators don't care for it I can't stop them from censoring this. Frankly, we need space to have open dialogues about matters like this where civil disagreement is permitted. This isn't a Gospel issue.

I have done my homework. To let you all in on a private part of my life, my family has struggled with infertility in the past and thankfully were able to overcome that barrier. In dealing with this, and doing research on it, I dug through volumes of medical journals about male and female infertility issues.

Once a sperm and egg join and fertilization occurs the next step (the hardest step) is implantation in the uteran wall. For some women this occurs easily. For others, it is a huge problem. In all women some fertilized embryoes fail to implant. These are viable embryoes where conception has already occurred.

In a rising number of women (infertility rates are 33% higher in Millennials than preceding generations) upwards of 65%-75% of embryoes do not implant in the uterus. These are embryoes where conception has already occurred. As I talked with our doctor, he said the average, across the known world, is that approximately 45% of embryoes do not implant.

So, after weighing this evidence (and this is boiled down) I came to the position that life begins after fertizliation and implantation in the uteran wall.

There are still instances where miscarriages occur following this. I honestly don't know what to do with that theologically. Anyways, that is my position. I've thought about it a lot and came these conclusions through prayer and research. Saying life begins at conception is something that doesn't work out scientifically. I appreciate folks who state this, but this is a signficant conversation where nuance must be allowed. By holding this position I continue to stand against any form of abortion.

I hope this helps the conversation here. You've had a great question, I hope I answered it.

 

[OldRegular]

I'm happy to talk about this, and if the moderators don't care for it I can't stop them from censoring this. Frankly, we need space to have open dialogues about matters like this where civil disagreement is permitted. This isn't a Gospel issue.

I have done my homework. To let you all in on a private part of my life, my family has struggled with infertility in the past and thankfully were able to overcome that barrier. In dealing with this, and doing research on it, I dug through volumes of medical journals about male and female infertility issues.

Once a sperm and egg join and fertilization occurs the next step (the hardest step) is implantation in the uteran wall. For some women this occurs easily. For others, it is a huge problem. In all women some fertilized embryoes fail to implant. These are viable embryoes where conception has already occurred.

In a rising number of women (infertility rates are 33% higher in Millennials than preceding generations) upwards of 65%-75% of embryoes do not implant in the uterus. These are embryoes where conception has already occurred. As I talked with our doctor, he said the average, across the known world, is that approximately 45% of embryoes do not implant.

So, after weighing this evidence (and this is boiled down) I came to the position that life begins after fertizliation and implantation in the uteran wall.

There are still instances where miscarriages occur following this. I honestly don't know what to do with that theologically. Anyways, that is my position. I've thought about it a lot and came these conclusions through prayer and research. Saying life begins at conception is something that doesn't work out scientifically. I appreciate folks who state this, but this is a signficant conversation where nuance must be allowed. By holding this position I continue to stand against any form of abortion.

I hope this helps the conversation here. You've had a great question, I hope I answered it.

I am not sure how doctors know this information unless it is in cases of in vitro fertilization. However, normally, unless implantation occurs, it is unlikely that it will be known whether or not conception occurred.

 

[just-want-peace]

I am not sure how doctors know this information unless it is in cases of in vitro fertilization. However, normally, unless implantation occurs, it is unlikely that it will be known whether or not conception occurred.

This same thought crossed my mind as well.

If no implant occurs, then there is no reason to consider abortion.

 

[preachinjesus]

I am not sure how doctors know this information unless it is in cases of in vitro fertilization. However, normally, unless implantation occurs, it is unlikely that it will be known whether or not conception occurred.

One of the ways science works, particularly in dealing with medical problems is to study people under many circumstances. There have been thousands upon thousands of medical studies on women and the pregnancy process. Medical science knows very well the process from insemination to delivery. The stats I provided are available across hundreds of peer reviewed medical journals. Fertility specialists have made tremendous strides to assisting women with legitimate medical problems by studying things like this. There are other fertility treatment options than in vitro fertilization.

 

[preachinjesus]

This same thought crossed my mind as well.

If no implant occurs, then there is no reason to consider abortion.

If no implantation exists the woman was never pregnant. You can't have an abortion if you're never pregnant.

 

[Revmitchell]

If no implantation exists the woman was never pregnant. You can't have an abortion if you're never pregnant.

Your semantical gymnastics does nothing to address the abortion topic.

 

[annsni]

I have had 2 miscarriages (after years of infertility as well). One occurred at 8 weeks and I knew about it when I started bleeding heavily and the second was at 10 weeks when I went for an ultrasound to measure the baby because they couldn't get good measurements the week before (realize, this was after daily ultrasounds to GET pregnant and then 3 ultrasounds after confirming the pregnancy) and I noticed right away that there was no longer a heartbeat. I had a D&C for that miscarriage because we wanted to see if there was any physical reason to lose that child. They found nothing wrong with the baby.

I believe both of those babies were fully human babies from the moment egg met sperm and they became a new human being. Why did God create them and then allow them to die? Why does He allow many eggs be fertilized and yet not implant, thus dying? I don't know but I do know that we are not just created for this world but for God's glory. I had the privilege of carrying at least 2 children for Him who brought Him glory and I'm grateful for that.

 

[Don]

I'm happy to talk about this, and if the moderators don't care for it I can't stop them from censoring this. Frankly, we need space to have open dialogues about matters like this where civil disagreement is permitted. This isn't a Gospel issue.

I have done my homework. To let you all in on a private part of my life, my family has struggled with infertility in the past and thankfully were able to overcome that barrier. In dealing with this, and doing research on it, I dug through volumes of medical journals about male and female infertility issues.

Once a sperm and egg join and fertilization occurs the next step (the hardest step) is implantation in the uteran wall. For some women this occurs easily. For others, it is a huge problem. In all women some fertilized embryoes fail to implant. These are viable embryoes where conception has already occurred.

In a rising number of women (infertility rates are 33% higher in Millennials than preceding generations) upwards of 65%-75% of embryoes do not implant in the uterus. These are embryoes where conception has already occurred. As I talked with our doctor, he said the average, across the known world, is that approximately 45% of embryoes do not implant.

So, after weighing this evidence (and this is boiled down) I came to the position that life begins after fertizliation and implantation in the uteran wall.

There are still instances where miscarriages occur following this. I honestly don't know what to do with that theologically. Anyways, that is my position. I've thought about it a lot and came these conclusions through prayer and research. Saying life begins at conception is something that doesn't work out scientifically. I appreciate folks who state this, but this is a signficant conversation where nuance must be allowed. By holding this position I continue to stand against any form of abortion.

I hope this helps the conversation here. You've had a great question, I hope I answered it.

I'm gonna have to spend a few days researching this. While I understand that "conception" is a vague term, most people accept it as when the egg is fertilized.

However, as folks have written here, I think we all agree that if it doesn't implant, then abortion doesn't enter into the equation. But the question of this thread wasn't about abortion per se; the main question was, when does life begin?

So far, what I've found is that the egg is fertilized, and the cells start dividing; this division satisfies the typical definition of life for "growing, constantly changing," etc. It does this even before it implants in the uterus.

So I tend to lean towards fertilization as the answer to the question; but, to remain honest and objective, I will do more research.

 

[Zaac]

I'm happy to talk about this, and if the moderators don't care for it I can't stop them from censoring this. Frankly, we need space to have open dialogues about matters like this where civil disagreement is permitted. This isn't a Gospel issue.

I have done my homework. To let you all in on a private part of my life, my family has struggled with infertility in the past and thankfully were able to overcome that barrier. In dealing with this, and doing research on it, I dug through volumes of medical journals about male and female infertility issues.

Once a sperm and egg join and fertilization occurs the next step (the hardest step) is implantation in the uteran wall. For some women this occurs easily. For others, it is a huge problem. In all women some fertilized embryoes fail to implant. These are viable embryoes where conception has already occurred.

In a rising number of women (infertility rates are 33% higher in Millennials than preceding generations) upwards of 65%-75% of embryoes do not implant in the uterus. These are embryoes where conception has already occurred. As I talked with our doctor, he said the average, across the known world, is that approximately 45% of embryoes do not implant.

So, after weighing this evidence (and this is boiled down) I came to the position that life begins after fertizliation and implantation in the uteran wall.

I still have to stick with from the moment of conception. I've always told folks, as you see throughout the rest of nature, if it's growing, it's alive.

The follicles mature(GROW) into eggs and the moment that growing egg binds with an alive sperm, a human life is formed and begins to grow. It doesn't matter if it hasn't implanted. Life has begun and if God doesn't want it to continue, HE does not allow the growing life to implant.

There are still instances where miscarriages occur following this. I honestly don't know what to do with that theologically. Anyways, that is my position. I've thought about it a lot and came these conclusions through prayer and research. Saying life begins at conception is something that doesn't work out scientifically

.

I have to respectfully disagree. There's a scientific difference between an un fertilized egg being released every month and a fertilized egg not implanting.

The timing may be about the same. But the fertilized egg is alive and growing, but will take the same path as the unfertilized egg if it doesn't implant.

By holding this position I continue to stand against any form of abortion.

:thumbsup:

 

[annsni]

One thing we need to consider as well is this: Did man work to prevent implantation or did God? It is possible for medications, including the morning after pill, to prevent implantation. Many medications make the uterus "inhospitable" to a fertilized ovum.