Featured John Nelson Darby vs Baptist Confessions of Faith

I read what Spurgeon quoted of Darby and then Spurgeon's complaint of Darby's belief, and I don't see the connection.
Be that as it may, I am not a follower of Darby, neither am I of Spurgeon.
It really doesn't matter to me.

What "kind" of dispensationalism did he reject? No doubt he rejected the kind of dispensationalism that you believe in. But he did not reject all dispensationalism. Anyone who is premillennial in doctrine believes in dispensations by the very nature of the premillennial doctrine. It can't be otherwise.

I don't believe you know what the biblical view of "The Church" is. There is no "Church," only "churches." That is the biblical view. The word is "ekklesia" and means assembly or congregation. The definition of the word forbids a meaning of "The Church."

Again, show me anyone, any one person on this board, who has made an affirmation in the belief of this "parenthesis" that you keep bringing up.
Either that or retract your statement.

In fact the Bible says that in Revelation 19 the saints will come with Jesus from heaven. The enemies of the Jews will be conquered and the Jews as a nation will enter into the Kingdom victorious. The believers will rule with Christ. That scene is given in Revelation 20 as well. But the Jews will also be in an exalted place above all other nations, as is indicated by many passages throughout the OT. So both are true.

I don't know exactly what they believe. I know what the Bible teaches. Deal with that.

No not at all! You just address him every day. The last time you addressed him this way: "revmwc"
It looks fairly similar to me. The first four letters are the same aren't they?

That works both ways.
I can back up my beliefs with Scripture. Most of the time yours is allegory.

 

What makes you think we follow the same line of thought?
As I have told you repeatedly I have never read Darby, and there are many kinds of dispensationalists.

 

You must have missed this, Matthew 24:28-30,
28 "For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

When in history did we see the Sign of the Son of Man in Heaven, in 70 A.D. the tribes of the earth didn't mourn the fall of Jerusalem, most of them didn't care.

"They shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Please show in recorded history where they saw the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven and with power and great glory.

However, Revelation 20 tells us He will come, Revelation being written in Circa A.D. 96 says He hasn't come therefore the Tribulation He spoke of has yet to occur. 11 "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself."

"Jesus Christ also promised the "true believers": John 16:33. These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

We have tribulation even today, you don't think so look at the believers being beheaded by ISIS, or thrown overboard, or imprisoned in middle Eastern countries.

But what did Jesus say that you apply to 70 A.D.
Matthew 24:20-22,
20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

The "great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" the whole world didn't go through this type tribulation in 70 A.D. and yet Jesus said it would be world wide.

Romans 5:3 "And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;"

Paul says we will have Tribulation, but Jesus was talking about a world wide Tribulation. The wrath of God upon the whole world which would meet the terms of Redemption for the earth. That is exactly what the Tribulation in Revelation is for. These vials and bowls and plagues connected with the Trumpets of Judgment come as the seals of the scroll containing the terms of the earths redemption are opened.

"For your edification I would also note that the wrath Paul was talking about was the judgment of GOD on unbelievers!"

As in another post we see the word used by Paul in the Greek for wrath is the same word used in Revelation 6:17.

Romans 5:9 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

Notice we shall be saved, not that we are saved from wrath, but shall be saved from wrath. At salvation we are saved from the wrath of the Lake of Fire and Eternal separation from God. Yet Paul says we would be saved that is believers at a future time would be saved from a yet future wrath. I don't know about you but when

Notice too 1 Thessalonians 10:10, 10 "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

First we see we are to "Wait for His Son from Heaven right there we see Christ will be coming from Heaven for us, that is what scripture teaches and the Holy Spirit reveals to me. Second Jesus, "delivered us from the wrath to come" Not from wrath as we are delivered from wrath at salvation but from the wrath to come. When does it come?

Revelation 6:17 "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Right here in Revelation 6:17 "the wrath of God comes upon the whole world".

Paul was not talking about was the judgment of GOD on unbelievers at Salvation but during the redemption of the earth under the terms for the kinsman redeemer Jesus who will redeem the possession of mankind, the earth during the Tribulation.

That is what the Tribulation is all about.

The Church or dispensation of Grace as Paul called it,

Ephesians 3:1"For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)"

Was a mystery to most Old Testament prophets, Salvation was not a mystery, the mystery was the church why because God didn't reveal it to them. Was it in His plan you bet it was, no parenthesis as you claim, but the plan of God from eternity past and a mystery to the O.T. prophets but the church as a mystery was revealed to Paul

All very clear in scripture. Still praying God will reveal His truths to you and help you get through your hatred for fellow believers.

 

I contend that not only Revelation but all the writings of John were written after 90 A.D. I don't know if you are prepared to tackle all of his writings and to date them.
The apostles asked him "When shall the end of the world be?"
John was still living long past "the end of the world" according to you.
It didn't come. The end of the world is not the end of Jerusalem. That just doesn't fit.

And as it has been pointed out there is far more destruction now, in this world now, then there ever was in the time of Titus. It can't even begin to compare. The earthquake in Nepal alone killed over 5,000. Add to that the horrible results of the wars of ISIS, and all the other civil wars of this world and the end-result is staggering.

What shall be the sign of the end of the world.
The destruction of the Temple was simply a partial fulfillment. It was not the fulfillment.

 

First when shall these things be?
The Temple was destroyed in A.D. 70 that we know. What did He answer? According to what you say He said when the Romans attack Jerusalem destroy the temple. But He didn't say that!

He did answered the second part of the question clearly:
What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matthew 24:5-8, lets rightly divide this:

First the period of the church, the period in which we live,

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

That has been and is still occurring today! Let ask you OR is that a correct statement? David Coresh comes to mind, Jim Jones.


6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

We see wars and rumors of wars today, Iraq, Afghaniustan etc. True or not OR?

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Happening today true or not OR?

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

These happen throughout our age, is the beginning of sorrows for believers.

At this point the Church is removed.

Then the Tribulation as backed up by Revelation 6-19,
Matthew 24:9-22;

9 "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
If this occured in A.D. 70 the we must be in the Great Tribulation right now, not in the Kingdom because it says,

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Yet there was no world wide tribulation, no Great Tribulation upon the whole earth.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

The days were not shortened but for the elect sake they would be shortened, what happened in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. to believers in Jesus? They were not there, yet for the elect sake the Great Tribulation will be shortened.

Why would that be if this was for Israel only, Gods wrath upon Israel, why would it be shortened for the sake of the elect unless this is yet a future world wide Tribulation in which people are saved?

 

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Two Questions:
The first one was answered, but likely only in part. Their question came after Jesus had described to them the destruction of the temple.
Most of what is written in that chapter never happened. There is no time or place in history where most of those events happened.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
--For example: is this past or future? It certainly hasn't happened yet.
Where in history has it happened? Point to the event.

 

Jesus disagrees with you though on this, as he held that the father would be bringing his kingdom to Isreal at his second coming, as did Apostle peter!

And paul certainly held that God was not done with Isreal proper, so which do you believe in regarding this, the Confessions or the Bible?

 

Historians put the death of Christ at 33 A.D.
Pentecost was shortly after.
Possibly three years passed before Stephen was martyred and shortly after Saul was converted.
In 43 A.D. James was martyred by Herod the Tetrarch.
The Council at Jerusalem was in 49 A.D.
The earliest possible date that Paul wrote his letter to the Romans was 57-58.

Now 25 years after the death, burial, resurrection, ascension, of Christ, and Pentecost, Paul prays for all Israel to be saved. He isn't praying for "spiritual Israel." He is praying for his "kinsmen in the flesh," his brethren, for Israel as a nation. This is at least 25 years after Pentecost.

Here:
Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

and here:
Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

This is the nation of Israel. It is not spiritual Israel. Paul went on his first missionary in 47 A.D., and then returned to Antioch. He met with those at Jerusalem in 49 A.D., and then set out for his second missionary journey in 50 A.D. He comes back and leaves for his third missionary journey in 53 A.D.
He spends some time in Ephesus, and then in Corinth, and in Corinth probably writes this letter. He has already won hundreds of Gentiles to the Lord and established scores of Gentile churches.
He is still praying that the nation of Israel be saved.
If Israel, by this time had not become one with the believers, it never would.
Either that or Paul was a lunatic to be praying this kind of prayer.

 

Paul knew that if the Gentiles coming into the Covenant of God now made through the Cross of Christ, how much more so would the benefits be when the Jewish peoples and nation returned to God and welcome yeshua as promised messiah?

peter held to same views as paul, as he saw that God would fully restore all things back once national isreal finally accepted jesus as their Lord!