Wrestling Scriptures ( Joshua 10:26)

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Evening marks the beginning of a day but it does not necessarily mean a day is past.

Correct, Evening marks the beginning of a day. "Evening" in the Bible, is a day's beginning hour(s). It necessarily means a day had begun. Thus the "evening" tells you the day before HAD HAD PASSED and IS <<past>> never to return, nothing further ever to happen on it "SINCE EVENING HAD COME BECAUSE the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath had begun ALREADY."

For about three years before 1987 the Bible Translation Committee determined they WILL follow the NIV in the Nuwe Afrikaanse Bybel in Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57, despite my protestations.

For thirty about years now after, they lived with their CORRUPTION. But being honest Christians, in 2014 in the Direct Translation of our Afrikaans Bible, they RETURNED to the 1933 translation's TRUE rendering, and ---on WHO KNOWS WHOSE insistence--- IMPROVED and faithfully included 'ehdeh' - "already". God alone give thanks! character and honesty prevailed.

I only wish others elsewhere would follow suit.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

GE:

But you are supposing 100 % CORRECT about the LAW, that it required one hanged the day before, that his body must be <<<remove(d)>>> <<<BEFORE dawn because the Law tells you MORNING must not find the bodies hanging.>>> THAT, is right, yes!

Vook:
Wrong. Bodies MUST be removed BY dusk as evident from Joshua and ALL JJewish history attests to this

Says who?

Says Vook.

It's so easy just to claim <<BY dusk as evident from Joshua and ALL JJewish history attests>> but don't do nothing about it.

Why bother? It's very difficult --impossible-- to bring that up here.

So why not take the easy route, THE SCRIPTURES?

Come on, bring them where it says <<Bodies MUST be removed BY dusk>>>!

Do you really think I am such a fool as to swallow your fitterjoel and glass splinters for survival? We have a history of people like you in South Africa!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

GE:

Jesus’ crucifixion was a Roman crucifixion. One doesn’t need much study of history to know this.

Vook:

That's irrelevant. Nobody said it was. I said Jews would not suffer bodies hanging overnight. Romans couldn't care

So <irrelevant> the Jews had to "BEG" Pilate to have the Roman rules waved to allow the Jews better opportunity to have things prolonged THEIR MORE SATANIC WAY in the burning trash heap of the unholy city!

But Vooks considers them Jews too goodhearted saints to have a body hang on a cross any longer than three hours. Shame...

 

[vooks]

Correct, Evening marks the beginning of a day. "Evening" in the Bible, is a day's beginning hour(s). It necessarily means a day had begun.

No it doesn't.
For one, exactly what is 'evening'?
Then you have numerous scriptures showing you that if does not NECESSARILY.
can we do a word for word study of Mark 4:35?
Mark 4:35 (KJV)
And the same day, when the even was come, he saith unto them, Let us pass over unto the other side
If EVENING means 'next day', then this verse should have read, the 'next day' not 'the same day'

Thus the "evening" tells you the day before HAD HAD PASSED and IS <<past>> never to return, nothing further ever to happen on it "SINCE EVENING HAD COME BECAUSE the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath had begun ALREADY."

Liar!
What is the essence of the expression 'same day'? It means much as it may have been evening, it was STILL Sunday. In Mark, 4:35, it means it was BOTH evening and SAME DAY.

For about three years before 1987 the Bible Translation Committee determined they WILL follow the NIV in the Nuwe Afrikaanse Bybel in Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57, despite my protestations.

For thirty about years now after, they lived with their CORRUPTION. But being honest Christians, in 2014 in the Direct Translation of our Afrikaans Bible, they RETURNED to the 1933 translation's TRUE rendering, and ---on WHO KNOWS WHOSE insistence--- IMPROVED and faithfully included 'ehdeh' - "already". God alone give thanks! character and honesty prevailed.

I only wish others elsewhere would follow suit.

Irrelevant

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

It takes wild hallucinations like Joseph Smith to fabricate history and present it as facts.

Evening marks the beginning of a day but it does not necessarily mean a day is past. And I gave you scriptures which you willfully ignored:tonofbricks:

Here is another bone
Acts 23:23-24,31-32 (KJV)
And he called unto him two centurions, saying, Make ready two hundred soldiers to go to Caesarea, and horsemen threescore and ten, and spearmen two hundred, at the third hour of the night; 24 And provide them beasts, that they may set Paul on, and bring him safe unto Felix the governor

31 Then the soldiers, as it was commanded them, took Paul, and brought him by night to Antipatris. 32 On the morrow they left the horsemen to go with him, and returned to the castle

1.The soldier leave Jerusalem for Antipatris at 2100H (or 0300H) for a 35miles journey, and they arrived while it was STILL dark.
2. They left the NEXT DAY

Food for thought. Supposing they left Jerusalem on Monday 2100H, when did they leave Antipatris for Jerusalem?
A. Monday
B. Tuesday
C. Wednesday

Insane gibberish....

 

[vooks]

So <irrelevant> the Jews had to "BEG" Pilate to have the Roman rules waved to allow the Jews better opportunity to have things prolonged THEIR MORE SATANIC WAY in the burning trash heap of the unholy city!

Did I smell antisemitism somewhere?
It is not 'Jews' who begged for the body, but Joseph of Arimathea a man who knew Jesus better

But Vooks considers them Jews too goodhearted saints to have a body hang on a cross any longer than three hours. Shame...

not 'Jews' but Joseph Arimathea
Matthew 27:57-58 (ESV)
57 When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who also was a disciple of Jesus. 58 He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate ordered it to be given to him

His motives are not important. Fact remains that had Joseph not begged, the body would have remained there for longer. And his death was part state execution which explains the Roman lien over the body. Else what was a centurion doing at the cross?

 

[vooks]

Insane gibberish....

I'd die of shock if it made any sense to you seeing all the garage you spill without batting an eyelid

 

[vooks]

Says who?

Says Deuteronomy, says Joshua

Says Vook.

Am not Holy Spirit who inspired the scriptures sir, do I look like Him?:smilewinkgrin:

It's so easy just to claim <<BY dusk as evident from Joshua and ALL JJewish history attests>> but don't do nothing about it.

Why bother? It's very difficult --impossible-- to bring that up here.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to project your 21st century ignorance and madness on 4000 years of Jewish history not to mention scriptures

So why not take the easy route, THE SCRIPTURES?

Sure

Come on, bring them where it says <<Bodies MUST be removed BY dusk>>>!

Deut 21:23 (ESV)
23 his body shall not remain all night on the tree, but you shall bury him the same day, for a hanged man is cursed by God.

You want it in sign language?

Do you really think I am such a fool as to swallow your fitterjoel and glass splinters for survival? We have a history of people like you in South Africa!

You are far from a fool, you re worse, you re OBTUSE

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

It is not 'Jews' who begged for the body, but Joseph of Arimathea a man who knew Jesus better

I did not say <<begged for the body>>. Are you Pseudo Shadrach? You sound like him and look like him and smell like him!

 

[vooks]

I did not say <<begged for the body>>. Are you Pseudo Shadrach? You sound like him and look like him and smell like him!

Looking at it, you did worse, you are hallucinating.
Show me where Jews 'begged'

So <irrelevant> the Jews had to "BEG" Pilate to have the Roman rules waved to allow the Jews better opportunity to have things prolonged THEIR MORE SATANIC WAY in the burning trash heap of the unholy city!

But Vooks considers them Jews too goodhearted saints to have a body hang on a cross any longer than three hours. Shame...

so Joseph Smith-esque

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Says Deuteronomy, says Joshua


Am not Holy Spirit who inspired the scriptures sir, do I look like Him?:smilewinkgrin:


It is IMPOSSIBLE to project your 21st century ignorance and madness on 4000 years of Jewish history not to mention scriptures


Sure


Deut 21:23 (ESV)
23 his body shall not remain all night on the tree, but you shall bury him the same day, for a hanged man is cursed by God.

You want it in sign language?


You are far from a fool, you re worse, you re OBTUSE

Another priceless post from Vook. PRICELESS!!!

 

[vooks]

Another priceless post from Vook. PRICELESS!!!

vooks not Vook!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Looking at it, you did worse, you are hallucinating.
Show me where Jews 'begged'

so Joseph Smith-esque

Who said it was Joseph who <<begged>>?

It was one Vook who said so.

Right?

Right!

Now, who dares me here to <<<Show ... where Jews 'begged'>>>?

It is one Vook who dares me.

So, you asked for it; now you will have it:

John 19:38, "Joseph BEGGED Pilate" --- 'Iohsehph EHROHTEHSEN ton Pilaton';

John 19:31, "The Jews BESOUGHT Pilate" --- 'hoi Ioudaioi EHROHTEHSAN ton Pilaton'.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

vooks not Vook!

O my golly, there's more of him! Hemele behoede ons!

 

[vooks]

Who said it was Joseph who <<begged>>?

It was one Vook who said so.

Right?

Right!

Now, who dares me here to <<<Show ... where Jews 'begged'>>>?

It is one Vook who dares me.

So, you asked for it; now you will have it:

John 19:38, "Joseph BEGGED Pilate" --- 'Iohsehph EHROHTEHSEN ton Pilaton';

John 19:31, "The Jews BESOUGHT Pilate" --- 'hoi Ioudaioi EHROHTEHSAN ton Pilaton'.

Sideshows.
Joseph begged for the body.
Jews begged/requested acceleration of their deaths so they could not remain hanging alive into the Sabbath which was hours away, since they would not have hanging bodies by past dusk!
if he died well into Sabbath, who would remove the body over Sabbath a day where even walking was restricted to 2/3 or a mile?

Thank you!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Gerhard Ebersoehn View Post
Correct, Evening marks the beginning of a day. "Evening" in the Bible, is a day's beginning hour(s). It necessarily means a day had begun.

No it doesn't.
For one, exactly what is 'evening'?
Then you have numerous scriptures showing you that if does not NECESSARILY.
can we do a word for word study of Mark 4:35?
Mark 4:35 (KJV)
And the same day, when the even was come, he saith unto them, Let us pass over unto the other side
If EVENING means 'next day', then this verse should have read, the 'next day' not 'the same day'

That is more civilized...

Alright, I'll oblige.

Mark 4:35,
Kai legei (ho Iehsous) autois (tois mathehtois) en ekeinehi tehi hehmerai opsias genomenehs: Dielthohmen k.t.l.

Literally:

And He (Jesus) says to them (disciples) on that day evening having come: Let us go over ... etc.

What do you want to know more? There is nothing you need to know, more.

On that day ('the same day' if you like), "BECAUSE evening had come" and it had become "ON THAT DAY, Jesus told them that they must cross the sea to the other side.

"BECAUSE" yes! because "BECAUSE" is contained in the Participle 'genomenehs' of the phrase, 'opsias genomenehs'.

What else can I tell you? I think I have told you everything that can be inferred from this text as far as chronology is concerned.

PS

I forgot about this,
<<<numerous scriptures showing you that if [Sic. I assume you meant <evening>] does not NECESSARILY>>>, <<<is 'evening'>>>, or, <<<means a day had begun>>>.

It necessarily does mean both.
The Greek word for "(the) evening" in the New Testament is '(heh) opsia' and is used 14 times without exception for time of day after sunset more or less until completely dark.

And you'll find exactly the same meaning in e.g., the LXX and or wherever.

 

[vooks]

That is more civilized...

Alright, I'll oblige.

Mark 4:35,
Kai legei (ho Iehsous) autois (tois mathehtois) en ekeinehi tehi hehmerai opsias genomenehs: Dielthohmen k.t.l.

Literally:

And He (Jesus) says to them (disciples) on that day evening having come: Let us go over ... etc.

What do you want to know more? There is nothing you need to know, more.

Nonsense.
Does Greek have a word for NEXT?
Should it not have read, 'and the next day. Evening having come....'

On that day ('the same day' if you like), "BECAUSE evening had come" and it had become "ON THAT DAY, Jesus told them that they must cross the sea to the other side.

'Jesus told them to cross over on day X because it was already evening and therefore he said this on day X'

"BECAUSE" yes! because "BECAUSE" is contained in the Participle 'genomenehs' of the phrase, 'opsias genomenehs'.

What else can I tell you? I think I have told you everything that can be inferred from this text as far as chronology is concerned.

PS

I forgot about this,
<<<numerous scriptures showing you that if [Sic. I assume you meant <evening>] does not NECESSARILY>>>, <<<is 'evening'>>>, or, <<<means a day had begun>>>.

How unthinking. Make up your mind. Is it the SAME/NEXT day?

Slowly meditate on this embarrassingly simple sense;
1.Jesus was busy the entire day.
2. When evening was come, the day is still regarded as SAME day
3. If evening had come and the NEXT day started, SAME day/ on that day would have been misleading

It necessarily does mean both.
The Greek word for "(the) evening" in the New Testament is '(heh) opsia' and is used 14 times without exception for time of day after sunset more or less until completely dark.

What is the point of mentioning day if not to show that they crossed over on the same day?

What is EVENING?

And you'll find exactly the same meaning in e.g., the LXX and or wherever.

Don't get into LXX, you will be embarrassed further
Start with Genesis 19:33-34


But before LXX, try and redeem yourself with this;
John 20:19 (ESV)
19 On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

1. The women went to the tomb early on Sunday morning
2. This means the 'evening' spoken of here MUST have been the later part of that Sunday and not Saturday evening (by our reckoning)
3. It is EVENING and still Sunday.
4. If Sunday had expired at EVENING, Jesus first appeared to the disciples on Monday!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Sideshows.
Joseph begged for the body.
Jews begged/requested acceleration of their deaths so they could not remain hanging alive into the Sabbath which was hours away, since they would not have hanging bodies by past dusk!

Thank you!

No sir; the Jews begged/requested acceleration of their deaths so the crucified would not remain hanging alive or HOWEVER!

--- NOT <into> as you say, but “on the sabbath” as John wrote;
--- NOT <<which was hours away>> as you say, but as John wrote, “since / because [‘gar’] that same day”
---<<SAME day>> as you have just above yourself argued re Mark 4:35
--- “since / because that same day WAS (Imperfect Ongoing) great day-sabbath-of” the passover and
---<<they would not have hanging bodies>> AT ALL— especially not when day would break and the crosses would be standing there in everybody’s sight.

Don’t add the words YOU need for your own story; stick to the words you NEED for the truth which are the words WRITTEN.

 

[PreachTony]

But you <<<believe the bodies came off the cross that same day [they were crucified], probably in the immediate aftermath of their deaths>>> WHATEVER THE SCRIPTURES SAY!

…sanctimoniousness…

I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth by adding to what I wrote.

If we are not allowed to account for the historical practices of Rome (or any other culture) when studying the scriptures, then we severely limit our ability to understand why certain things took place. I'm all for scripture being the final authority, but knowledge of history can enhance our understanding of scripture (though we still need the Holy Spirit to revelate our minds).

But you have this strange tendency to take scripture and twist it and bend it as far as you can to fit whatever your notion of the day is. You excel at eisegesis.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

if he died well into Sabbath, who would remove the body over Sabbath a day where even walking was restricted to 2/3 or a mile?

Thank you!

"No servile work" was to be done on festive 'sabbaths'.

The passover's 'sabbath' had VERY MUCH commanded to be done on it.

Traditions of men are not commandment of the Scriptures.


And: Who said << if he died well into Sabbath>>? ...don't become totally ludicrous!