A carryover thread from 'The Children whom God hath given me .'

[SovereignGrace]

I will never convince you guys(DHK & revmwc) so I will leave you with these verses:

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

In you view, the third class of peoples, the 'carnal christian', they can produce good AND bad fruit. Jesus stated otherwise.

 

[revmwc]

I will never convince you guys(DHK & revmwc) so I will leave you with these verses:

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

In you view, the third class of peoples, the 'carnal christian', they can produce good AND bad fruit. Jesus stated otherwise.

And I'll give you Lot a believer by your agreement who was wallowing in sin gross sin, he offered his daughters to the men who enjoyed same gender relationships instead of the two angels:

Genesis 19:
1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it.
14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

Then Lot after escaping destruction still wallowed in sin with his daughters also wallowing in it. They get him drunk and lay with him, he is still wallowing in sin.

Genesis 19:
30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
37 And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

Lot a saved man wallowing in sin vexed his soul daily in Sodom and Gomorrha.

2 Peter 2:6-8
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

He had their filthy conversation, in seeing and hearing their wickedness he was as the Corinthians wallowing in sin and not condemning it. Went from one gross sin to another, he was a sarkikos type of believer a fleshly man who was just because of his faith, a righteous man dwelling in sin.

 

[DHK]

I will never convince you guys(DHK & revmwc) so I will leave you with these verses:

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

In you view, the third class of peoples, the 'carnal christian', they can produce good AND bad fruit. Jesus stated otherwise.

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

A believer out of the will of God is the most miserable person on the face of this earth. God, as a loving Father, will chasten him until he repents. He doesn't give up. It may be (if he is a true believer), for His name sake, that ultimately He will take him out of this world in order to that he will do no further damage to His name (This is believe is what the "sin unto death" is.)

Let me give you an example. I don't believe Benny Hinn is a saved individual.
The verse "By their fruits you shall know them," refers to doctrine not good works. By Benny's doctrine you shall know whether he is a false teacher or not. Beware of the leaven--false doctrine--of the Pharisees. You will notice that Benny Hinn revels in what he does. He enjoys it. It is pleasure. He has no qualms whatever about the money and riches he rakes in, and the people he deceives. That also is not the fruit of a true believer. He has no guilt, no remorse, and no intention of using that money where it can do the most good. He uses it for self.

If he were a true believer God would not leave him alone until he did the right thing. He would be miserable, under the conviction of sin and a sinful lifestyle. But he isn't and has no intention of changing.

This is what 1John 3 is speaking about as well as Matthew 7 and other Scripture you brought forth. When Paul addressed the Corinthians, they repented of their sins.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

A believer out of the will of God is the most miserable person on the face of this earth. God, as a loving Father, will chasten him until he repents. He doesn't give up. It may be (if he is a true believer), for His name sake, that ultimately He will take him out of this world in order to that he will do no further damage to His name (This is believe is what the "sin unto death" is.)

Let me give you an example. I don't believe Benny Hinn is a saved individual.
The verse "By their fruits you shall know them," refers to doctrine not good works. By Benny's doctrine you shall know whether he is a false teacher or not. Beware of the leaven--false doctrine--of the Pharisees. You will notice that Benny Hinn revels in what he does. He enjoys it. It is pleasure. He has no qualms whatever about the money and riches he rakes in, and the people he deceives. That also is not the fruit of a true believer. He has no guilt, no remorse, and no intention of using that money where it can do the most good. He uses it for self.

If he were a true believer God would not leave him alone until he did the right thing. He would be miserable, under the conviction of sin and a sinful lifestyle. But he isn't and has no intention of changing.

This is what 1John 3 is speaking about as well as Matthew 7 and other Scripture you brought forth. When Paul addressed the Corinthians, they repented of their sins.

God chastens them. Yes. This brings repentance. But in light of other places cf. Rom. 8:1-17, Eph. 4:20-24, Gal. 5:16-26, 1 John 3:7-10, Rom. 13:8-14, Col. 3:1-10 &c.

I will drop this now. Good day sir.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And I'll give you Lot a believer by your agreement who was wallowing in sin gross sin, he offered his daughters to the men who enjoyed same gender relationships instead of the two angels:



Then Lot after escaping destruction still wallowed in sin with his daughters also wallowing in it. They get him drunk and lay with him, he is still wallowing in sin.



Lot a saved man wallowing in sin vexed his soul daily in Sodom and Gomorrha.



He had their filthy conversation, in seeing and hearing their wickedness he was as the Corinthians wallowing in sin and not condemning it. Went from one gross sin to another, he was a sarkikos type of believer a fleshly man who was just because of his faith, a righteous man dwelling in sin.

During the days of Lot, Abraham, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, et al, they had the Spirit, but not in His plenitude. That is why you see the acts of Samson, Rahab, Abraham, Jacob, and yet, they are mentioned in Hebrews 11.

 

[Iconoclast]

Sounds like a carnal statement made by one who cannot contribute positively nor defend his own doctrine.

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
--You have denied this scripture from the day that it has been discussed.

Spiritual and godly believers who listen to the links to those sermons on this topic will know I've offered a good link and the correct teaching .Anyone who listens knows now how bad and misguided the ideas you two put forth really are.
Thankfully your error allowed the truth put forth by SG.....to shine in contrast.
unlike a couple others here who offer falsehoods
then try to defend the falsehoods and will live and die on that hill

 

[revmwc]

Physical and Spiritual death(s)happen(s) due to Adam, mon ami. Second death happens due to sinners failure to repent and believe the good news.[Mark 1:15]

These others I have no idea where you pulled them from.

I created a ne thread called 7 Deaths mentioned in the Bible

 

[revmwc]

During the days of Lot, Abraham, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, et al, they had the Spirit, but not in His plenitude. That is why you see the acts of Samson, Rahab, Abraham, Jacob, and yet, they are mentioned in Hebrews 11.

Yet too so can believers be involved in gross sin even today as seen with the man in the church at Corinth. Think about this he had been in that sin for at least a month maybe 2 and the church had done nothing. Letters were slow in arriving in those days. So he was wallowing in that sin for a while. Others too

Paul said he himself was sarkikos Romans 7:14, Romans 8:6 & 7 Paul talked about believers being fleshly (sarkos) and therefore dead, which is Temporal death.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yet too so can believers be involved in gross sin even today as seen with the man in the church at Corinth. Think about this he had been in that sin for at least a month maybe 2 and the church had done nothing. Letters were slow in arriving in those days. So he was wallowing in that sin for a while. Others too

Paul said he himself was sarkikos Romans 7:14, Romans 8:6 & 7 Paul talked about believers being fleshly (sarkos) and therefore dead, which is Temporal death.

Okay, this is my last post concerning this. I need to quit posting or quit lying. :tongue3:

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[1 Cor. 5:9-13]

Read closely what I bolded. They were expected to expel someone/anyone who walked unruly. Now, he had an affair of some extent, that is sure, both sides agree. How long? None of us know. But in light of other passages, it was not a long term affair. Those who live unruly, live a lascivious lifestyle, continue in sin, are not truly converted. Their walk attests to that fact. By them expelling him, his repentance, shows the biblical model of how churches are to seek reconciliation. If members are acting(not living) unruly, you use the model Jesus laid out in Matthew 18. If they are expelled and then repent and come back, you receive them with open arms. Reconciliation has been accomplished. Repentance is a fruit of showing true conversion/salvation has happened in their life.

Forgiveness for the Offender

If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you to some extent—not to put it too severely. The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient. Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him. Another reason I wrote you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything. Anyone you forgive, I also forgive. And what I have forgiven—if there was anything to forgive—I have forgiven in the sight of Christ for your sake, in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes.[2 Cor. 2:5-11]

See comment above.

 

[DHK]

Let's consider that passage. Remember that they had just received instruction on how to excommunicate this carnal believer. Now consider that they have obeyed and done it.

1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Verse 9 refers to previous instruction. Believers are not to keep company with those that work iniquity (example: fornicators).
Verse 10: But not completely. It is impossible. We are in the world. We must witness to these people. We rub shoulders with them every day. Corinth was a wicked city. They worked with such people. The only way to completely avoid all of them was if the rapture should occur.
Verse 11: But the situation is different with a brother who is a fornicator. He IS a fornicator--has that lifestyle. Don't even keep company with him. Don't "have a coffee with him." Don't socialize with him in any way. Let him be unto you as a heathen and a publican--as the Jews formerly treated the pagans.
13--What have I to do with them that are without--That is without the church. God judges them. Paul's duty was with the believers within the local churches he had association with.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Let's consider that passage. Remember that they had just received instruction on how to excommunicate this carnal believer. Now consider that they have obeyed and done it.

1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Verse 9 refers to previous instruction. Believers are not to keep company with those that work iniquity (example: fornicators).
Verse 10: But not completely. It is impossible. We are in the world. We must witness to these people. We rub shoulders with them every day. Corinth was a wicked city. They worked with such people. The only way to completely avoid all of them was if the rapture should occur.
Verse 11: But the situation is different with a brother who is a fornicator. He IS a fornicator--has that lifestyle. Don't even keep company with him. Don't "have a coffee with him." Don't socialize with him in any way. Let him be unto you as a heathen and a publican--as the Jews formerly treated the pagans.
13--What have I to do with them that are without--That is without the church. God judges them. Paul's duty was with the believers within the local churches he had association with.

Well, I said I was finished, so I need to keep my word. We could debate this until 2029 and not be any closer than we are now. Good day sir.

Been a very good debate. :thumbs::thumbsup:

 

[Iconoclast]

Lot I have not study a whole lot about. I know he is mentioned in Hebrews 11, so he is saved. Now, if he was saved during the time of Sodom's and Gomorrah's destruction, I will have to go back and reread. But this carnal christianity is something I will never agree with, well, unless God shows me otherwise. But christians will never wallow in sins. Step in them, commit them, absolutely yes. Wallow in them? Never, monsieur.

There is no such thing...you have posted correctly:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Some churches invented this doctrine to make an excuse for all the false professors they have collected:thumbsup:

You have kept your word...but these two cannot welcome the truth as you have faithfully offered it. Tres bien

 

[revmwc]

There is no such thing...you have posted correctly:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Some churches invented this doctrine to make an excuse for all the false professors they have collected:thumbsup:

You have kept your word...but these two cannot welcome the truth as you have faithfully offered it. Tres bien

So when did they invent it?

 

[Iconoclast]

So when did they invent it?

The link to the 3 sermons answer this question for you

 

[revmwc]

The link to the 3 sermons answer this question for you

Sorry I don't go listen to anything unless I know who is speaking. I will listen to nothing from certain motivational speakers.

So who is the speaker?

 

[revmwc]

There is no such thing...you have posted correctly:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Some churches invented this doctrine to make an excuse for all the false professors they have collected:thumbsup:

You have kept your word...but these two cannot welcome the truth as you have faithfully offered it. Tres bien

Is this first one to invent the teaching?

John Gill 1 John 3:9:
and he cannot sin; not that it is impossible for such a man to do acts of sin, or that it is possible for him to live without sin;for the words are not to be understood in the sense of those who plead for perfection in this life; for though the saints have perfection in Christ, yet not in themselves; they are not impeccable, they are not free from sin, neither from the being nor actings of it; sin is in them, lives in them, dwells in them, hinders all the good, and does all the mischief it can: or in such sense, as if the sins of believers were not sins; for though they are pardoned and expiated, and they are justified from them, yet they do not cease to be sins; they are equally contrary to the nature, will, and law of God, as well as the sins of others; and are oftentimes attended with more aggravated circumstances, and which God in a fatherly way takes notice of, and chastises for, and on the account of which he hides his face from them: nor does the phrase intend any particular single sin, which cannot be committed; though there are such, as sinning wilfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, or denying Christ to be the Saviour of sinners, and a sacrifice for sin, and hatred of a Christian brother as such, and sinning the sin unto death, or the unpardonable sin; neither of which can be committed by a regenerate man: nor is the meaning only, though it is a sense that will very well bear, and agrees with the context, that such persons cannot sin as unregenerate men do; that is, live in a continued course of sinning, and with pleasure, and without reluctance, and so as to lie in it, as the whole world does: but rather the meaning is, he that is born of God, as he is born of God, or that which is born of God in him, the new man, or new creature, cannot sin; for that is pure and holy; there is nothing sinful in it, nor can anything that is sinful come out of it, or be done by it; it is the workmanship of the Holy Spirit of God; it is a good work, and well pleasing: in the sight of God, who is of purer eyes than to behold sin with delight; and an incorruptible seed, which neither corrupts nor is corrupted; and though it is as yet an imperfect work, it is not impure: the reason of the impeccability of the regenerate man, as such, is

Or maybe this one started it

John Calvin 1 Corinthians 3:1
Verse 1

1.And I, brethren He begins to apply to the Corinthians themselves, that he had said respecting carnal persons, that they may understand that the fault was their own — that the doctrine of the Cross had not more charms for them. It is probable, that in mercantile minds like theirs there was too much confidence and arrogance still lingering, so that it was not without much ado and great difficulty that they could bring themselves to embrace the simplicity of the gospel. Hence it was, that undervaluing the Apostle, and the divine efficacy of his preaching, they were more prepared to listen to those teachers that were subtle and showy, while destitute of the Spirit. (145) Hence, with the view of beating down so much the better their insolence, he declares, that they belong to the company of those who, stupefied by carnal sense, are not prepared to receive the spiritual wisdom of God. He softens down, it is true, the harshness of his reproach by calling them brethren, but at the same time he brings it forward expressly as a matter of reproach against them, that their minds were suffocated with the darkness of the flesh to such a degree that it formed a hindrance to his preaching among them. What sort of sound judgment then must they have, when they are not fit and prepared as yet even for hearing! He does not mean, however, that they were altogether carnal, so as to have not one spark of the Spirit of God — but that they had still greatly too much of carnal sense, so that the flesh prevailed over the Spirit, and did as it were drown out his light. Hence, although they were not altogether destitute of grace, yet, as they had more of the flesh than of the Spirit, they are on that account termed carnal This sufficiently appears from what he immediately adds — that they were babes in Christ; for they would not have been babes had they not been begotten, and that begetting is from the Spirit of God.

Babes in Christ This term is sometimes taken in a good sense, as it is by Peter, who exhorts us to be like new-born babes, (1 Peter 2:2,) and in that saying of Christ,

 

[Iconoclast]

revmwc

Sorry I don't go listen to anything unless I know who is speaking.

Sorry I don't interact with false teachers who are too lazy to listen to correction by men who can preach from the greek text,

I will listen to nothing from certain motivational speakers.

That's wonderful. No one has suggested you should.
Evidently you will not listen to biblical correction and would rather remain ignorant of truth and unteachable like your friend...he also rejects knowledge that would easily correct his error

So who is the speaker?

Oh...do not concern yourself. These men are real pastors who can read, teach, and preach from the greek text...unlike you and your partner:laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

revmwc

Is this first one to invent the teaching?
Or maybe this one started it

Neither one of these quotes supports your ideas:laugh::laugh::laugh:

It is like you are not understanding what you read, or the issue being discussed.I already knew that however from your attempted answers to SG.:wavey:

 

[DHK]

Sorry I don't interact with false teachers who are too lazy to listen to correction by men who can preach from the greek text,

Evidently you will not listen to biblical correction and would rather remain ignorant of truth and unteachable like your friend...he also rejects knowledge that would easily correct his error

Oh...do not concern yourself. These men are real pastors who can read, teach, and preach from the greek text...unlike you and your partner:laugh:

Go back carefully and read both sides of the debate.
You will find in the end that SG did not defeat me in the debate. Rather, he graciously ended or withdrew saying, that we must agree to disagree. That is not saying I am wrong, a false teacher, unteachable, etc.
So, why do you attack a person this way?
You are so unreasonable that it seems impossible to have a debate with you.
Go and read the arguments I put forward and see if you are able to defeat them.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

Go back carefully and read both sides of the debate.

I read these threads very carefully:wavey:

You will find in the end that SG did not defeat me in the debate.

SG...was very kind, and patient with both of you. He clearly withstood both of you by simply responding solidly biblically to each point, without blemish.

He is to humble to say so......but he ate your lunch in that interaction, it was a shut out:wavey:

Rather, he graciously ended or withdrew saying, that we must agree to disagree.

Sure he did.....he is a very nice person. He stated his position clearly and answered clearly. When he saw that you two could not or would not address his points honestly.....he knew no more needed to be said.:thumbsup:

That is not saying I am wrong, a false teacher, unteachable, etc.

No...he did not.He is very nice. That is where I step in DHK. I do not like how you treated him and others.....so I let you know it.

So, why do you attack a person this way?

read through my posts.....If anyone just interacts with others I never come at them that way....even when we do not agree.

You and your partner do not deal straight-forward however. You invite resistance by your M.O.

You are so unreasonable that it seems impossible to have a debate with you.

It seems that way to you because of how you interact with me....a recent example is...rmac said something that I quoted, but did not get it to quote properly......[so it looked as if I made the statement.} you reacted strongly saying......whattttttt???????:laugh: when rmac explained his quote, you basically said...oh, nevermind!

Go and read the arguments I put forward and see if you are able to defeat them.

I can show step by step where you go wrong, but I am not sure you would read it.