Featured The eternal purpose of Christ pt2

That statement is twisted...but it was originally posted by DHK....lol...glad you saw how strange it was!!!!.

I was on my phone but I do no know how to quote on the phone....l. if you read post 30 I scrolled down to answer...lol

 

Can you prove that statement to be absolutely true? (God is angry with the wicked.....everyday.)
I believe you are taking it out of its context.

 

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

him = the wicked unbeliever

wrath = righteous anger

abideth = continually remains on him

 

And... God died for nothing.

God should have "put it on Lucifer" to not rebel - no matter what his choice - and save Himself the loss of 1/3 of the angels.

And failing that - God should have "put it on Eve" to not bite - no matter what her choice -- and save Himself the death of God the Son on the cross, and the loss of the majority of this planet.

If God's "choice" of government was to be king over "pre-programmed bots" then placing that "correction" on the thought cycles - early and often - would have saved us all a lot of grief - including himself.

Rather what we see is "High cost" being "paid" even by God in the form of the torture and death of His own Son - to promote, sustain - maintain a universe of free will choice - the system He sovereignly chose - and then PAID dearly to continue with it - no matter what.

in Christ,

Bob

 

That does not say that God is angry with him all the time.
It means that as long as he does not believe on him there is a sentence of judgment upon him. God loves him with an intense love, and is constantly pleading with him to come to him.
Just think. You too had that sentence of judgment upon you, until you believed.

 

Here it is;

9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.

11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

12 If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow, and made it ready.

13 He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors.

14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood.

15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.

16 His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate.

17 I will praise the Lord according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the Lord most high.

 

First, you need to quote the entire reference (Psalm 7:11) so one doesn't have to do a search for it regardless of what you post. Do you know how many verses there are in the book of Psalms??

Second, realize this is a psalm, a prayer.
Third, realize that not only is it just a prayer, but an imprecatory psalm or prayer. It is not one that you can base doctrine on. Would you pray this prayer?

How about this one:
Psa 109:5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.
Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
Psa 109:8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Psa 109:9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Psa 109:10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
Psa 109:11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.
Psa 109:12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.
Psa 109:13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
Psa 109:14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the LORD; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
Psa 109:15 Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.
Psa 109:16 Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.
Psa 109:17 As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him.
Psa 109:18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.

This is the OT prophet's depiction of God's judgment.
What does the NT say about our enemies?

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Obviously, your doctrine is not based on NT teaching or the teachings of Jesus. It is taken out of context.

 

When Saul was abusing, attacking, seeking the death of Christians in Jerusalem - day after day... according to the Bible - was he one of the "wicked" or one of the "saints"?

Did God "so love the world --- including the wicked Saul" such that he too was given the offer of eternal life?

 

PreachTony

Hello PT-
I need you to clarify your objection. Originally your objection was...that Calvinism with it's select few.....here;

I responded about the number of believers being as the stars of heaven or the sand on the sea.

Now you go to the words of Jesus?

So PT...what do you find deplorable?

Calvinism or the words of Jesus ? Ask yourself an honest question....

IF you go to this passage now..and Jesus taught it...How are Cals to blame?

What is it you really are objecting to? To us humanly speaking as sinners...we would like all men to be saved.

I trust God....100% that He knows exactly what is the perfect plan.

I never question God because of that. If he wanted for His own Holy reasons to save only 354 people that is His perogative.

The fact that He has indeed purposed to save a multitude is pure mercy.

I am not sure about this....this is another thread

Yes. "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" (Acts 17:30)

http://www.sg-audiotreasures.org/am_grace.htm

Not sure what you mean here.....We do not know who is elect, or non elect...so we preach to all men expecting that if God has mercy on them they will hear and see with Spiritual facilities made new by God.

My conscience is more than clear...I know how God made himself known to me, no tricks, I was in full rebellion.

I am familiar with some of them....they are easily answered with a consistent view of scripture. If you post a few that you think are strong...I will answer them like we do each others posts.

What i notice is the non cals hate these links because they cannot answer them without looking foolish.
Did you notice DHK for example boasting that he would not listen to teaching from sermons, or read these good links??? I found that bizarre.

PT...I would listen to the clerk at the gas station if he understood something i did not know.

One time about a year ago I asked all the persons who are critical of the Confession or the Catechism to make up there own without cheating...


Only Van tried to do it....to his credit...he manned up and did a good job.

Most on here were clueless. Could you make your own that is superior to the ones we use?

 

The above was the quote being responded to.

You ignored context and read your Calvinism into the whole thing.
You are not trusting the words of Christ at all; you are trusting Calvinism.

What is the context?
The context is the false teaching of the Pharisees vs. the true teaching of Christ.
Which way will one follow? Which way will they put their faith in?
Will the Pharisaical teaching of the law and its hypocritical interpretation by the object of their faith, or,
Will the authoritative teachings of Christ with his pronouncement and demonstration of being the Messiah be the object of their faith.
At that time few believed (had faith) that Christ was the Messiah. It was far more popular to follow the Pharisees, false teachers.

Note also that the teachings of Jesus here is primarily to his disciples though a great crowd could hear. This is still part of the Sermon on the Mount.

 

Your dispensational straight jacket keeps you from truth many times...

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


That includes all The Psalms.....your constant nonsense about...this is only for Israel...this is out of context ...is wearing thin....

You turn around and only quote half of 2 pet 3:9 because you hate the truth it teaches, so you try and negate it with some BOGUS paraphrase from beyond.

The New Covenant is for all Christians, The Psalms are for all Christians, your attempts to ignore those portions you cannot grasp is very sad.

You follow this up by questioning all of us....do you believe the trinity? do you believe the scripture? are you following heretics...and othersuch questions to mask the fact that everyone of your error laden posts is squashed like a bug on the windshield...

yesterdayyou claimed Jesus does not send people to hell:laugh::laugh:

No thanks...we we follow the historic church, the confessions, the creeds, not your erzatz ideas which oppose sound and gifted preachers and teachers who you also reject.:thumbsup:

 

PT

This was not meant to be a high school english lesson on how else we could right the paragraph......It was meant to clearly demonstrate that the same word, spelled the same way had different means according to how it was used....I think you know that, but to admit it you lose the issue being discussed...

In scripture we have....
the world God created

The world of the Ungodly destroyed by the flood

The world system that hates God

The world God so loved

children of God living all over the world.....

be not conformed to this world

I pray not for the world

 

Yes...God has not changed His mind on sin.....God's wrath is still revealed as per Romans 1

 

No faith ain't faith, monsieur. 'World' ain't 'the entire globe' every time it is mentioned, either. I have shown you several places where faith comes from God. Hebrews 12:2...the Pioneer(Author in KJV) and Perfecter(Finisher in KJV) of our faith. To author something means you created it. For you to author a book you are the one who created it. In Romans we can read Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.Rom. 12:1-3] The context is Paul speaking to his 'Brothers and Sisters' and these 'Brothers and Sisters' are the ones who God has distributed faith unto.

Then in Job we can read But it is the spirit in a person, the breath(this is the Spirit mon ami) of the Almighty, that gives them understanding.[32:8)

Then in John 6 we can read where Jesus said Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”[John 6:29]


Everything in our salvation is dependent upon the doing. Everything.

 

What dispensationalism?
You have a hard time with context and a good time with proof-texting.

It is not for Israel. Not only is not for Israel it is not for you. It is a prayer of David, an imprecatory psalm that portrays the judgement of God.
You wouldn't pray that pray, just as you wouldn't pray the prayer of Psalm 109!
The question is not one of inspiration but rather of relevance. It is not relevant to this discussion. Imprecatory psalms have no relevancy here.
This scripture too is inspired of God:
1 Chronicles 26:18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.
--Tell me how much relevance it has to this discussion. It is INSPIRED Scripture Icon!

You never read my post did you? I quoted the whole verse, every phrase of it--more of it than you have ever posted. I explained the entire verse. I gave more than one translation of it. I showed you exactly what it meant. You never responded because you never read the post. Oh well, ignorance is bliss isn't it?

That is not true. The imprecatory psalms are not for today. They are OT pronouncements of judgment. Again, would you pray Psalm 109:5-18 as a prayer for one of your acquaintances? Yes or no.

Have I questioned your belief in the trinity. I am questioning your common sense in trying to apply an imprecatory psalm to our day and age. It can't be done.
Is this a prayer for your neighbor:
Psa 109:10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.

One of David's prayers as well. Is it not just as relevant? They are both imprecatory psalms.

I believe what the Bible says. Do you?
Here is what Jesus said:

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Based on a person's faith in Christ they will either enter heaven or enter hell.
Those are the words of Christ. They couldn't be any clearer.
He that believeth not shall be damned. It is not Christ, but a person's unbelief that puts him in hell.
Study your Bible.

 

You make some of the most outlandish claims my eyes have ever seen, mon ami.


By your hermeneutics and exegesis we do not to obey the Law because it was given to Israel. The Sermon on the Mount holds no value to us seeing Jesus preached that to the Jews. Jesus' prayer in John 17 holds no value to us because He was praying for His disciples.

I mean this to not be in a snarky manner, but you need to sharpen your iron, monsieur.

 

:applause::thumbs::applause::thumbs:

 

What claims?
Icon's interpretation using these Psalms, as I have just demonstrated, makes the Bible contradict itself--specifically the psalms contradicting the words of Jesus.
Jesus said to love your enemy and to do good to them that hate you.
The psalmist says to hate the wicked.
Which is correct?
Or is there a schizophrenic god or a false god?
Or just someone taking scripture out of context?
I believe that latter to be the case.

 

DHK

All scripture is for me....maybe not for you...but it is for me;

4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Here from wiki; looks like your definition is defective in that it is wrong and way to narrow.

if you look at the list...take for example psalm 69 which is also a messianic Psalm that has many truths that pertain to the cross...
.you say it is not for you
I say it is for me and all like minded Christians..SG, Protestant, is psalm 69 for you? Does it speak about Jesus?:thumbs:

 

Psalm 7:11 stands yesterday , today , and forever....as does your denial of plain scriptural teaching.

Your view apparently looks to deny Psalm 7:11...trying to divert attention away from your lack of understanding by trying to introduce psalm 109 into the discussion fools no one.

Sg answered that for you yesterday when you described a god who has contradictory wills

here I found it for you;