The eternal purpose of Christ pt2

[DHK]

Psalm 7:11 stands yesterday , today , and forever....as does your denial of plain scriptural teaching.

Your view apparently looks to deny Psalm 7:11...trying to divert attention away from your lack of understanding by trying to introduce psalm 109 into the discussion fools no one.

The original subject was the love of God as it pertains to salvation. You entered in with Psalm 7:11, and that without any reference. Note you just quoted half of the verse without giving any reference or context whatsoever. You quoted it out of context. It has no bearing on the subject when taken in context.
Inspired, yes. Relevant, no!

Now tell me:
1 Chronicles 26:18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.
--Tell me how much relevance it has to this discussion. It is INSPIRED Scripture Icon!
--You never answered me about this scripture.
It has about as much relevance as Psalm 7:11.

Sg answered that for you yesterday when you described a god who has contradictory wills

here I found it for you;

He never answered a thing. He just posed a rhetorical question which he has a problem answering. If he doesn't know the answer to it, then he has the problem, not me.

 

[Iconoclast]

You turn around and only quote half of 2 pet 3:9 because you hate the truth it teaches, so you try and negate it with some BOGUS paraphrase from beyond.

You never read my post did you? I quoted the whole verse, every phrase of it--more of it than you have ever posted.

Wrong...I went over the whole chapter

I explained the entire verse.

I explained the entire chapter

I gave more than one translation of it.

you gave a horrendous paraphrase...that is not scripture.

I showed you exactly what it meant. You never responded because you never read the post. Oh well, ignorance is bliss isn't it

I have answered it 3 times in the last two days....by the way...if ignorance is bliss, looking at what you have denied in your last 20 posts....you must have attained to a certain degree of folly;
The highest form of bliss is living with a certain degree of folly
Desiderius Erasmus

Read more at: http://www.azquotes.com/quote/813678

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

The original subject was the love of God as it pertains to salvation. You entered in with Psalm 7:11, and that without any reference. Note you just quoted half of the verse without giving any reference or context whatsoever. You quoted it out of context. It has no bearing on the subject when taken in context.

No need to lie like you are doing here. Why is this a lie? because it is an intentional falsehood ...I will show that right here

I made a comment concerning yet another one of your errors;
Here was the exchange...from POST42;

=DHK


I believe you take statements in the Bible meant to be general descriptions of mankind and make them into absolute statements without exceptions. It destroys what the Bible teaches.
For example (in general) because of man's depravity he will reject God.
But that doesn't mean 100% of the time. In fact God gave general commands to mankind for man to: repent, believe, have faith, seek the Lord, etc. These commands are given to all mankind and are given so that man has no excuse not to obey.
In general man will rebel, but that is not an absolute.

You said this error to SG I believe...so I commented here...I said;
it does not mean 100% of the time.....Adam was only partly dead....lol...is that like being a little bit pregnant.....lol.....maybe sinners only rebel every other day....lol

God is angry with the wicked.....everyday.

I commented on your foolish posting saying God is angry with the wicked everyday.....[ I quoted this from memory as I have learned this}to which you asked me....

Can you prove that statement to be absolutely true? (God is angry with the wicked.....everyday.)
I believe you are taking it out of its context.

At that point I answered by going to the Psalm and posting half of the psalm showing context...so do not lie.


when I went to scripture here is exactly what i offered in post 46...it is still there go re-read it...I will put it here so the readers can see it-

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHK View Post
Can you prove that statement to be absolutely true? (God is angry with the wicked.....everyday.)
I believe you are taking it out of its context.

Here it is;

9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.

11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

12 If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow, and made it ready.

13 He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors.

14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood.

15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.

16 His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate.

17 I will praise the Lord according to his righteousness: and will sing praise to the name of the Lord most high.

 

[DHK]

DHK

No need to lie like you are doing here. Why is this a lie? because it is an intentional falsehood ...I will show that right here

I made a comment concerning yet another one of your errors;
Here was the exchange...from POST42;

God is angry with the wicked.....everyday.

By taking this statement out of its context, a prayer of David, poetical literature, a psalm of judgment, you have proven my point. God does not hate the wicked every day. "Hate" per se, is not one of his attributes. Hate is the absence of love. God is love. That is what the Bible teaches.
God in his very essence is love. Taking this statement out of context as you do, contradicts the very nature of God. God does not hate the wicked every day.
In fact the Bible says about the death of the wicked "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked."
He reaches out to them in love each and every day. He died for them. You were one of them were you not? Or were you, while in the womb, a child of God?? Regeneration was not a problem for you was it??
But that is not the testimony of Scripture. All day long he pleads for the unsaved to come to him. There is nothing but love, incomprehensible love in God.

I commented on your foolish posting saying God is angry with the wicked everyday.....[ I quoted this from memory as I have learned this}to which you asked me....

My posting is not foolish. You contradict God's Word by quoting scripture out of context. You do this constantly.

At that point I answered by going to the Psalm and posting half of the psalm showing context...so do not lie.

Nonsense. I still had to do a search for the verse. Simply giving the verse numbers of a few verses doesn't give the exact location of the verse.

when I went to scripture here is exactly what i offered in post 46...it is still there go re-read it...I will put it here so the readers can see it-

Yes, that is what David said. But why did David say that. Study the psalm.
God is not angry with the wicked every day. David is not teaching that. This is a prayer.
It is a prayer of David.
Again, I ask you: Would you pray Psalm 109? Why or why not?

 

[SovereignGrace]

DHK,

Whenever David wrote, he wrote through the inspiration of the Spirit of God. Everything that we have that is contained in the Holy Bible, written by men, is as though the Spirit took the quill and ink and wrote it Himself.

Psalms 7
1 Lord my God, I take refuge in you;
save and deliver me from all who pursue me,
2 or they will tear me apart like a lion
and rip me to pieces with no one to rescue me.

Here David is seeking God's protection from his enemies. He was seeking God's face in this prayer.

3 Lord my God, if I have done this
and there is guilt on my hands—
4 if I have repaid my ally with evil
or without cause have robbed my foe—
5 then let my enemy pursue and overtake me;
let him trample my life to the ground
and make me sleep in the dust.

Here is a sign of true repentance from David. He was afraid that maybe he had done something amiss, and if he had, then he was willing to die. If not, he was seeking God's help in delivering him from his enemies.

6 Arise, Lord, in your anger;
rise up against the rage of my enemies.
Awake, my God; decree justice.
7 Let the assembled peoples gather around you,
while you sit enthroned over them on high.
8 Let the Lord judge the peoples.
Vindicate me, Lord, according to my righteousness,
according to my integrity, O Most High.
9 Bring to an end the violence of the wicked
and make the righteous secure—
you, the righteous God
who probes minds and hearts.

Any enemy of David is an enemy of God. He was writing through the Spirit that God would bring vengeance upon those who sought his life.

10 My shield is God Most High,
who saves the upright in heart.
11 God is a righteous judge,
a God who displays his wrath every day.

Now here is where the le caoutchouc rencontre la route, monsieur. David is writing through the Spirit, as though the Spirit Himself took quill and ink, or whatever writing tools they used in those day, and wrote it down. In other words, David is speaking what they Spirit would say. The Spirit says, through David, that God displays His wrath every day. So God does display His wrath upon sinners every day. He is angry with the wicked every day.

 

[SovereignGrace]

What claims?
Icon's interpretation using these Psalms, as I have just demonstrated, makes the Bible contradict itself--specifically the psalms contradicting the words of Jesus.
Jesus said to love your enemy and to do good to them that hate you.
The psalmist says to hate the wicked.
Which is correct?
Or is there a schizophrenic god or a false god?
Or just someone taking scripture out of context?
I believe that latter to be the case.

Schizophrenia is all over your guy's theology.

You quote 'God so loved the world' and believe it means everybody without exception and yet there is “I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing."[Isa. 66:3]

You quote God is not willing that any should perish(conveniently leaving out the 'usward' word; the NIV states it {Instead He is patient with you}) and then there is “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."[Matt. 25:41] You then say Christ died for every man without exception then there is “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep."[Jn 10:11]

That, mon ami, is schizophrenia.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

By taking this statement out of its context, a prayer of David, poetical literature, a psalm of judgment, you have proven my point

.

We can let the reader decide what has happened here.

God does not hate the wicked every day.

yes indeed He does...look;
Psalm 5:5

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity

"Hate" per se, is not one of his attributes

.

Sure it is.God God has a Holy hatred of sin. It is not like your carnal hatred of Calvinism....But he hates all the workers of iniquity....He is angry at the wicked everyday.

What paraphrase are you going to use to make another denial of scripture today?

Here is CHS-

"God is angry with the wicked every day." He not only detests sin, but is angry with those who continue to indulge in it. We have no insensible and stolid God to deal with; he can be angry, nay, he is angry to-day and every day with you, ye ungodly and impenitent sinners. The best day that ever dawns on a sinner brings a curse with it. Sinners may have many feast days, but no safe days.

From the beginning of the year even to its ending, there is not an hour in which God's oven is not hot, and burning in readiness for the wicked, who shall be as stubble

Hate is the absence of love.

So you do not love Calvinistic teaching it looks like...you only like your own ideas which are not holding up to protestant and SG"s questioning.:thumbs:

God is love.That is what the Bible teaches.

Yes that is a wonderful truth:laugh: But God has many Holy attributes and one does not cancel out the others....You should know this as you claim you teach others.

God in his very essence is love. Taking this statement out of context as you do, contradicts the very nature of God.

That is your opinion...but you also deny Jesus sends sinners to hell...so I am not sure if you have followers at this point.

God does not hate the wicked every day.

Yes he does....the tsunami a few years ago was a demonstration of this fact.

In fact the Bible says about the death of the wicked "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked."

No he does not take pleasure in it...but that will not stop Him from sending the angels to gather out all things that offend and bind them in bundles to be burned.

This however is another attempt to derail the thread as you do... yesterday you said the "thread" was about;

The original subject was the love of God as it pertains to salvation.

This thread is about the eternal purpose of God

He reaches out to them in love each and every day. He died for them. You were one of them were you not

?

Yes...he reaches many of the elect everyday.

Or were you, while in the womb, a child of God?? Regeneration was not a problem for you was it??

Have i posted this somewhere? Or are you "inferring"again, which is just an excuse to make a personal attack because the discussion is not going your way at all?

But that is not the testimony of Scripture. All day long he pleads for the unsaved to come to him. There is nothing but love, incomprehensible love in God.

This is your opinion , you are free to express it. We do not share it as posted , and reject your denials of clear scripture.

My posting is not foolish.

Take a poll and put that to the test:laugh:

You contradict God's Word by quoting scripture out of context. You do this constantly

.

It seems that way to you because you are unable to welcome the teaching.
That seems to me to be a personal problem. The others here are in agreement with most of what i have said.:laugh:

Nonsense. I still had to do a search for the verse. Simply giving the verse numbers of a few verses doesn't give the exact location of the verse.

You claim that you teach...and yet did not know where these verses were found?

Yes, that is what David said.

I know it that is why i remembered it and posted it when you requested "proof"....you got it:

But why did David say that.

because the Spirit gave him truth here.

Study the psalm.

I have and it looks like the other brothers have...that is why they know you are wrong:

God is not angry with the wicked every day. David is not teaching that

.

Psalm 11:5

The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth

 

[PreachTony]

I need you to clarify your objection. Originally your objection was...that Calvinism with it's select few.....here;

I responded about the number of believers being as the stars of heaven or the sand on the sea.

And I do not disagree that the number saved is innumerable. I just think the number damned is greater, using Christ's example from scripture. I believe scripture has a consistent track record of showing us more people turning away God's invitation than accepting it.

Now you go to the words of Jesus?

I don't think you do, but I hope you are not finding fault in me for using the words of the Lord to inform my theological leaning...

So PT...what do you find deplorable?

Calvinism or the words of Jesus ? Ask yourself an honest question....

This one is easy for me, Icon. I find the Calvinist interpretation deplorable. I'm not sure how many times I can show the multiple invitations in scripture, some from the mouth of Christ Himself, that went out to everyone. Every time I or any other non-Cal shows these invitations, the Calvinist just responds that they are not meant for everyone, but only for the Elect.

IF you go to this passage now..and Jesus taught it...How are Cals to blame?

What is it you really are objecting to? To us humanly speaking as sinners...we would like all men to be saved.

Non-Cals always want all men to be saved. We see in scripture that God likewise wants all men to be saved. He wants none to perish. But, oh right, that verse only applies to some, and not all. Because as we all know, no person has ever been talking to a specific group and then referenced a much larger group. You guys act like there is no way that Peter could be talking to saved people and then either referencing the entirety of humanity or even the previous sinful state of the saved and how it relates to all sinners. You guys have decided that 2 Peter 3:9 only applies to the specified group that Peter stated in his introduction, when Peter even says in the opening of chapter 3 that he intends to remind them of things past.

I trust God....100% that He knows exactly what is the perfect plan.

I would hope so. Believe it or not, but non-Cals also believe God and trust Him. We also hold to His plan being perfect. Apparently unlike your side, we do not see God's plan weakened because God allows man to accept or reject Him. If that was part of God's plan, then how is God weakened?

I never question God because of that. If he wanted for His own Holy reasons to save only 354 people that is His perogative.

The fact that He has indeed purposed to save a multitude is pure mercy.

If you've never questioned God then you are a better man than almost everyone I've ever known. God knows we'll have moments of doubt. He knows we'll fall. He know's we'll sin. For that very reason John told us that we have an advocate with the Father.

Not sure what you mean here.....We do not know who is elect, or non elect...so we preach to all men expecting that if God has mercy on them they will hear and see with Spiritual facilities made new by God.

What do I need to clarify here, Icon? Your side throughout the previous thread and this one has said things to the effect of "that scripture does not apply to the lost" or "that verse only references the elect." 2 Peter 3:9 is a clear example. The non-Cals recognize that verse as applicable to all men. The Calvinists say it is only meant for the saved.

My conscience is more than clear...I know how God made himself known to me, no tricks, I was in full rebellion.

I'm happy for you if it is, although I do not understand how it can be. Your very theology, and the man that founded it, states that God actually harbors hatred, to the point of damnation, for a sizable portion of creation...a creation that can only do anything once God propels them to do so. He commands men to repent but never intends to move them to repentance. He invites men to seek His mercy, but never intends to grant that mercy to most of them. Calvin himself said

Yet sometimes he also causes those whom he illumines only for a time to partake of it; then he justly forsakes them on account of their ungratefulness and strikes them with even greater blindness.

That, to me, sounds like man could've been grateful to God for such illumination, yet your side says man can only be so if God first moves him to be so. So God illumines people for a time, never moves them to be grateful, and then strikes them with greater blindness for not having something that He never gave them. I wish you could see just how mortifying such a theological system is to someone on my side of the aisle.

I am familiar with some of them....they are easily answered with a consistent view of scripture. If you post a few that you think are strong...I will answer them like we do each others posts.

So once again your side claims the intellectual high ground. If only you non-Cals had a consistent view of scripture...

What i notice is the non cals hate these links because they cannot answer them without looking foolish.
Did you notice DHK for example boasting that he would not listen to teaching from sermons, or read these good links??? I found that bizarre.

I cannot speak for DHK. I can only speak for myself, Icon. I don't harbor hatred for any link you've shared. I told you my stance. I prefer to lean on scripture rather than a confession written not even 350 years ago. I prefer to glean my doctrine from scripture, rather than how one man interpreted scripture 1500 years after it was written, especially given that the man in question was just as fallible and corrupt as us and that he held to doctrines most of us now despise.

PT...I would listen to the clerk at the gas station if he understood something i did not know.

The problem with this statement is that, if you do not know, and you think within yourself that the clerk at the gas station does know, then so long as he presents a statement that sounds properly smart and well-reasoned, he could hoodwink you into a belief system that is false, and he could do so under the pretense of simply sounding like an expert on the matter.

One time about a year ago I asked all the persons who are critical of the Confession or the Catechism to make up there own without cheating...

Only Van tried to do it....to his credit...he manned up and did a good job.

Most on here were clueless. Could you make your own that is superior to the ones we use?

I've been asked before what kind of "Confession" I follow, or similar statements to that effect. My answer has always been that I follow scripture. I've never pointed someone to the writings of someone else as a basis of theology, because in my understanding, only the Bible is divinely inspired. Any commentary on the Scriptures is subject to the corruption and fallibility of the man writing it. I'm glad Van took up the challenge, and I would like to read his writing, just out of curiosity. But I will not write you a Confession when the scripture exists and God's Word will stand.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

God does not hate the wicked every day. "Hate" per se, is not one of his attributes. Hate is the absence of love. God is love. That is what the Bible teaches.
God in his very essence is love. Taking this statement out of context as you do, contradicts the very nature of God. God does not hate the wicked every day.

Brother DHK,

God does hate the non-elect per the following scriptures,

"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity" (Psalm 5:5)

"The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth." (Psalm 11:5)

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

God is love.

Only In Christ Jesus, for it is written Rom 8:39

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Outside of Christ He is a consuming fire Heb 12:29

29 For our God is a consuming fire[Thats His Nature also].

The Love of God here is with the definite article, meaning its exclusive to only in Christ Jesus, the Love of God is found, there is no scripture foundation that God is Love to any outside of Christ Jesus !

 

[Iconoclast]

(And I do not disagree that the number saved is innumerable. I just think the number damned is greater, using Christ's example from scripture. I believe scripture has a consistent track record of showing us more people turning away God's invitation than accepting it.)

So....now you say that scripture says God saves an innumerable multitude. ..
Does that mean we can expect you to not use the caricature of saying in Calvinism there is only a select few saved?

 

[DHK]

Brother DHK,

God does hate the non-elect per the following scriptures,

"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity" (Psalm 5:5)

"The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth." (Psalm 11:5)

Do you not find it odd that you can only find those type of statements in:
a. Poetical literature, particularly the Psalms which are the prayers of men--and mostly statements of judgment as in the Imprecatory Psalms, which then have no bearing on us at all.

b. that the same truths are not found in the NT books and actually contradict the words of Jesus, and of the Apostles.

c. They also contradict the Law, which is summarized by Jesus into two Great Commandments summarized by Christ in the NT.

d. They go directly contrary to the nature of God who expressly is stated as "God is love," (the absence of hate).

Given the above evidence I find your positon to be absolutely wrong, even anti-biblical.

 

[Iconoclast]

PreachTony;


(I don't think you do, but I hope you are not finding fault in me for using the words of the Lord to inform my theological leaning...)

No...not at all however....you are missing the point completely because it shows the contradiction in what you posted......you attacked the cal view....when questioned you say Jesus taught it also.......you are not dealing with your contradiction......
Instead you say this disengenuious remark as if I am against you quoting Jesus.???


(This one is easy for me, Icon. I find the Calvinist interpretation deplorable. I'm not sure how many times I can show the multiple invitations in scripture, some from the mouth of Christ Himself, that went out to everyone. )

Calvinists show the same verses.

(Every time I or any other non-Cal shows these invitations, the Calvinist just responds that they are not meant for everyone, but only for the Elect.)

They are.offered to all.....but will be effectual for the elect....

Why can you not grasp this idea that has been repeated over and over.
The general call goes to all men....we do not know who is elect so we preach to all...you see this in Acts 18....God tells Paul I have MUCH people in this city...not all but many.
He did not give Paul a list...he preaches to all

 

[PreachTony]

So....now you say that scripture says God saves an innumerable multitude. ..
Does that mean we can expect you to not use the caricature of saying in Calvinism there is only a select few saved?

Though it is not a caricature, why should I stop? The truth of your theology is that God has Elected a number, great though it may be, to salvation and likewise elected a number, greater than the first, to eternal damnation. You can try to say that Election only works one way, but that simply cannot be in the case of a sovereign God as Calvinism describes Him. If God has selected to save those He saves, then He must also have selected to punish those He punishes. Man has no says so in either case, according to you, so man is nothing more than a puppet. I hate using that cliche, but it is apt, given the theology.

 

[DHK]

DHK,

Whenever David wrote, he wrote through the inspiration of the Spirit of God. Everything that we have that is contained in the Holy Bible, written by men, is as though the Spirit took the quill and ink and wrote it Himself.

Inspiration doesn't mean relevance. The psalm, given its context, has not relevance to the character of God. As pointed out to Icon, what relevance does this verse have with this subject:

1 Chronicles 26:18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.

It also is inspired of God. It is not a question of inspiration. We all agree that all scripture is inspired of God and profitable. But is it relevant to this discussion. The answer is NO! The reason--context.

Here David is seeking God's protection from his enemies. He was seeking God's face in this prayer.

The superscription refers to David’s experience with “Cush, a Benjamite,” referred to only here in the Bible. The song comes from a time David was hunted by Saul’s men (1Sa_22:8; 1Sa_24:9; 1Sa_26:19)
--Are you out fleeing from Saul's men, particularly one of them. These were enemies of one who was anointed to be the king over Israel.

Here is a sign of true repentance from David. He was afraid that maybe he had done something amiss, and if he had, then he was willing to die. If not, he was seeking God's help in delivering him from his enemies.

In verses 3-5:
David is not repenting at all. He is affirming his innocence before God.
In verse 4 he expresses a slanderous charge made against him by his enemies: " if I have done this;" But he hadn't. He was innocent.

Any enemy of David is an enemy of God. He was writing through the Spirit that God would bring vengeance upon those who sought his life.

Yes, an appeal for vindication. Quite the contrary to what the NT teaches.
"Vengeance is mine saith the Lord. I will repay."
We are not to pray for vengeance. We are to pray for love for our enemies, and in fact to love them and do good for them. This is the opposite of NT teaching.

Now here is where the le caoutchouc rencontre la route, monsieur. David is writing through the Spirit, as though the Spirit Himself took quill and ink, or whatever writing tools they used in those day, and wrote it down. In other words, David is speaking what they Spirit would say. The Spirit says, through David, that God displays His wrath every day. So God does display His wrath upon sinners every day. He is angry with the wicked every day.

Verse 10 simply teaches that God is his shield.
Verse 11, if there is NT teaching, is what I have already given:
God hates the wickedness of the unbeliever. Vengeance is His. He will repay.

In the ESV it says:
Psa 7:11 God is a righteous judge, and a God who feels indignation every day.
--The KJV may not be the most accurate translation at this point. God does not hate "the wicked" but rather their wickedness.

(ASV) God is a righteous judge, Yea, a God that hath indignation every day.

(Darby) God is a righteous judge, and a *God who is indignant all the day.

In fact Young's literal translation seems to say the opposite of the KJV:

(YLT) God is a righteous judge, And He is not angry at all times.


Therefore, don't put all your faith in just one translation.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Though it is not a caricature, why should I stop? The truth of your theology is that God has Elected a number, great though it may be, to salvation and likewise elected a number, greater than the first, to eternal damnation. You can try to say that Election only works one way, but that simply cannot be in the case of a sovereign God as Calvinism describes Him. If God has selected to save those He saves, then He must also have selected to punish those He punishes. Man has no says so in either case, according to you, so man is nothing more than a puppet. I hate using that cliche, but it is apt, given the theology.

Brother PreachTony,

You have a problem in your theology of gospel regeneration/free will that you probably relegate only to those who believe the doctrines of grace. If gospel regeneration is the truth, then to be "fair" why doesn't God give all equal opportunities to hear the gospel? After all, some men die who have never heard the gospel, thus per your theology such men were never given a "chance" or "opportunity" to be saved. Also, others grow up and hear the gospel much more than some.

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Do you not find it odd that you can only find those type of statements in:
a. Poetical literature, particularly the Psalms which are the prayers of men--and mostly statements of judgment as in the Imprecatory Psalms, which then have no bearing on us at all.

Brother DHK,

Even if those verses in Psalms were prayers, are you contending the saints praying these prayers under inspiration of God were stating falsehoods or were they not writing under the inspiration of God as moved by the Holy Ghost?

 

[savedbymercy]

Do you not find it odd that you can only find those type of statements in:
a. Poetical literature, particularly the Psalms which are the prayers of men--and mostly statements of judgment as in the Imprecatory Psalms, which then have no bearing on us at all.

b. that the same truths are not found in the NT books and actually contradict the words of Jesus, and of the Apostles.

c. They also contradict the Law, which is summarized by Jesus into two Great Commandments summarized by Christ in the NT.

d. They go directly contrary to the nature of God who expressly is stated as "God is love," (the absence of hate).

Given the above evidence I find your positon to be absolutely wrong, even anti-biblical.

The Psalms are God's word!

 

[DHK]

Brother DHK,

Even if those verses in Psalms were prayers, are you contending the saints praying these prayers under inspiration of God were stating falsehoods or were they not writing under the inspiration of God as moved by the Holy Ghost?

NO, I am saying because of their context they are not relevant.
Come now, BJ, would you pray this prayer:

Psa 109:10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.

How relevant is that to our NT prayer life?

How relevant is some of the other OT scripture to this discussion:
1 Chronicles 26:18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.

Scripture taken out of context is not relevant. It is inspired, yes; but not relevant.

 

[DHK]

The Psalms are God's word!

Yep, and so are the Chronicles of the OT:

1 Chronicles 26:18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.

So what is your point?