In which "Millennial Camp" was ....

[DHK]

He reigns NOW. His kingdom is not of this world and is not seen with the eye and the Zion He rules from cannot be touched with the hand.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Only a deluded person would think these prophesies (the ones bolded) have already taken place; have already been fulfilled.
We may call Christ the "Prince of peace," but the world is not at peace. There is no peace in this world.
The government is not upon his shoulder.
Of the increase of his government there shall be no end. Not happening.
He shall be upon the throne of David. Not happening.
He shall establish (his throne) with judgment and justice forevermore. Not happening.
--None of these have happened or are happening.

So that you might understand the verse, look in another translation:
(ISV) Of the growth of his government and peace there will be no end. He will rule over his kingdom, sitting on the throne of David, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness from this time onward and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of the Heavenly Armies will accomplish this.
--It infers a kingdom on earth, not in heaven.

Look elsewhere:
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
--This battle has not happened yet, but it looks like it could any time now.

Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
--The Lord has not come yet, but verse 3 says he will.
And in verse 4 it says he will come to the mount of Olives and the mount shall be divided. IOW, a great earthquake shall take place. This has not happened yet.

Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
--The Lord, known here as The Branch, when he comes will build a temple for himself.

Zec 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
--It will be built on this earth, and he shall sit and rule from a throne that will be built in this temple.

Zec 6:15 And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
--All the world will know that Christ is Lord in that day.
Does all the world know that Christ is Lord today? Obviously not!

What shall it be like when Christ comes and sets up his Millennial Kingdom.
He will remove the curse, and it will return as it was in the garden of Eden.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Is it like that now?

 

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
By the way, Aaron, explain how this...


1 Corinthians 2:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


...makes this passage exclusive to His Person (which again cannot be made exclusive to the Redemptive Plan)?

Your original point:

Quote:
The simple point Paul makes is that if the princes of this world had understood that Christ's death would do the opposite of what it was intended (silence Christ), they would not have put Christ to death, and in fact Satan would have assigned the greatest security detail this world could possibly know to keep Christ from any harm, so that they could keep him from the Cross.

Aren't we glad that God in His wisdom knew what He was doing in keeping the Gospel a Mystery?

You are coming to the passage with dispensational presuppositions.

Great...now answer the question posed in the quote...

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
By the way, Aaron, explain how this...


1 Corinthians 2:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


...makes this passage exclusive to His Person (which again cannot be made exclusive to the Redemptive Plan)?

You have completely ignored that and gone off on a tangent of irrelevance.

Every argument you pose here is based on your own reasoning, not mine. And I will show that as we go, so stay tomed, er, tuned (lol).

You are saying the Devil did not know God's plan,

I am saying...no-one knew God's Redemptive Plan. That is evident in the fact that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was a Mystery.

You are the one who converts this to exclusively referring to Satan or demons, not me.

No-one knew.


1 Corinthians 2:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.



The "they" would refer, by reason of a balanced Biblical implication, the men who crucified Christ, which would be all of mankind with no exclusion of satanic or demonic influence, which is just a given in fallen man.

But the point you are avoiding is that no-one knew.


9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


And we can add Peter's commentary on this issue:


1 Peter 1:9-12

King James Version (KJV)

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.


Both testify of the same truth.

and God by necessity had to engage in a covert operation to accomplished His purposes.

You are imposing necessity which has nothing whatsoever with my view, I simply express what is written:


1 Corinthians

2King James Version (KJV)

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:


Romans 16:24-26

King James Version (KJV)

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:




Not necessity, that is your imposition and it is a false argument.

The Will of God.

Satan did not know God's plan?

No, Satan did not know, for had he known, he would have assembled the greatest security detail imaginable, lol.

He knew Christ had to suffer in Jerusalem for the salvation of His elect, and tempted Him to abandon that path.

Where is your Scripture?

Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
The Apostle's point is that man by his corrupt, natural wisdom can discern neither Christ's Person nor His Wisdom.

What you are missing is that even Peter, a close disciple of Christ...was unaware, and in fact in opposition to the Mystery of Christ, which is the Gospel.

Notice he rebukes the Lord for suggesting He...will die? Ever notice that Peter again tries to avert the Death of Christ by taking up the Sword in Gethsemane? Ever notice that when the Lord has arisen...


Luke 24:6-11

King James Version (KJV)

6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

8 And they remembered his words,

9 And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.

10 It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.

11 And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.


Look at v.11 again and let that unbelief of the Apostles sink in.

The princes spoken of are not devils.

I agree. And point out the false argument wastes time for both of us.

We would not neglect satanic and demonic influence on mankind, but the focus is primarily on humankind, as in view is Redemption, which does not apply to demons.

They are gods ("Have I not said in your law, Ye are gods?"), men in positions of wisdom and honor.

I too see the use of "gods" to represent men of power and position. My statement regarding Satan was simply to illustrate that if the Gospel had been known, its greatest antagonist would have done what he could to avert that.

The point remains...no-one knew, it was the Hidden Wisdom of God, it was at that point a Mystery, and in fact was a mystery until Pentecost.

You can show how this mystery was understood by anyone, but I can save you a little trouble...no-one will be found.

But were the Person and Wisdom of God discernible by nature, they would not have corrupted justice and consented to Christ's execution.

Again, agreed. Divine truth is always revealed to men by God, as seen here, for example...


Matthew 16:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

There is nothing Dispensational whatever in the passage you take as one of its pillars.

On the contrary, two dispensations are readily apparent in the text, and your hatred for Dispensationalism doesn't change that. Rejection of Dispensational Theology doesn't change that.

We have a period where the Mystery is not revealed, and the current Age in which is revealed by the Comforter, Who, by the Way, did not begin ministering in the distinct ministry (which focuses on glorifying Christ through the revelation and transmission of the Gospel to the World) He ministers in (convicting unbelievers of sin by reason of the Gospel) until Christ returned to Heaven and sent the Comforter.

It is simply a Bible Basic...


Hebrews 1

King James Version (KJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;



God bless.

 

[Aaron]

(1) No one reads tomes.

(2) Why and how is the Gospel hidden from men?

Your premise is that fallen men are perfectly capable of discerning Christ's Person, and had His Person and Wisdom not been kept hidden under a bushel, they would have kept Him alive to prevent His plan of salvation.

The passage in question is saying though Wisdom crieth in the streets and in the chief place of concourse and in the openings of the gates, fallen men cannot hear or see it, and crucified the Lord out of ignorance, for had they known it, in honor of His Person they would not have perverted justice.

(3) I've established that the Devil knew that Christ had to die to save His elect, and he tempted Him to abandon that path.

 

[Darrell C]

(1) No one reads tomes.

On the contrary, many do, and they, like you, pick one point out of one of those posts (which are not that large and read fairly quickly) to address.

And the more serious posters will at times respond in like fashion, and address posts in detail.

Just because you don't "waste your time" reading long posts, doesn't mean everyone doesn't read them.

And like I said, it is that kind of mentality which is the very reason we see the same people arguing over the same points...for years.

No growth.

One member boasts of being on this forum for ten years and he is still no closer to presenting a valid response against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, and is forced to argue Theology Systems instead.

(2) Why and how is the Gospel hidden from men?

Because revelation is consistently progressive, which means there are times when God reveals something to men, then later He reveals more, then later He reveals more.

In the Old Testament, for example, show me the man in Abraham's day that knew Christ would die for their sins.

Show me under the Law where they understood the prophecy of Christ.

If they had...explain their exclusive and racist attitudes. They did not want the Gentiles saved by their God. And that is another point, God was the Savior, for that is what was revealed to them. Did they know that God had a Son Who created the World?

No.

Now, explain this one verse:




Romans 16:24-26

King James Version (KJV)

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:



If you can show how this does not say that the Gospel was not revealed until the "Preaching of Christ," according to the revelation of mystery link to Strong's inserted), which mystery was kept secret (see that link as well) since the world began, but is now (Paul's day) made known to all nations for obedience to that very Gospel...

...then please tell me what it means.

Your premise is that fallen men are perfectly capable of discerning Christ's Person,

No, Aaron, you are making the same mistake you did in the last post. A false argument based on false premise.

Just ask me what I do believe and I will tell you, rather than try to construct arguments that only waste time. You're just making the posts longer by doing that, my friend.

The natural man has no ability and is perfectly incapable of discerning Christ's Person, not even the disciples could do that...apart from revelation of divine truth from God Himself. All Theology has always been first revealed, then understood. But the content of revelation has always been progressive. God could have said in the Garden "I am going to send my Son and He will die for your sin."

He didn't do that.

In the Old Testament the Gospel of Christ was not revealed, which is evident by several verses I have shown you. The Atonement of Christ was not applied to believers in that day...or they would not have continued to offer up sacrifice for the remission of sins. The Writer of Hebrews asks..."Would they not have ceased (if that were the case)?"

But, the Spirit of God did minister the revelation available in that day, as evidenced here:



Acts 7:51-52

King James Version (KJV)

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:



Now we see the Spirit of God is the One resisted, and we see the Prophets which "shewed before the coming of the Just One," but...

...even they were not privy to the Mystery before it's time of revelation.

That they prophesied of Christ is no different than Caiaphas prophesying that Christ "Should die for the Nation (and not for that Nation alone)." They were used of God to reveal what God wanted them to know, which was that the Messiah was coming.

But when He came...they rejected Him. Why? Glad you asked...because He did not fit the bill for what they expected.

A Savior that dies?

Now back to your false argument:

Your premise is that fallen men are perfectly capable of discerning Christ's Person,

In this Age the Comforter performs a unique ministry not present...before He came. What makes what is basically the same ministry performed in the Old Testament different is...the revelation and result of that revelation.

The Comforter, according to Christ...convicts unbelievers:


John 16:7-9

King James Version (KJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;


John 16:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.




Now notice this does not begin until Christ leaves. And we see in Acts 1 the disciple had still not received the Baptism with the Holy Ghost until after Christ returned to Heaven.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

and had His Person and Wisdom not been kept hidden under a bushel, they would have kept Him alive to prevent His plan of salvation.

That is exactly what I believe the text is saying.


1 Corinthians 2:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


Now if you back up and place that in the context of what Paul is saying, you will see that he is contrasting the wisdom of the highest rank with the Hidden Wisdom of God, which was not under a bushel, simply not revealed, even as Abraham did not understand that Christ was the Seed, singular, rather than his offspring.



1 Corinthians 2

King James Version (KJV)

4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.



The contrast is between the wisdom of men, and specifically the specifically named wisdom of the princes of this world...with the Hidden Wisdom.

Now if you can work out a presentation from the Word of God which negates that the Gospel of Christ was not the Hidden Wisdom, was not secret, and was not a mystery...please do.

The passage in question is saying though Wisdom crieth in the streets and in the chief place of concourse and in the openings of the gates, fallen men cannot hear or see it, and crucified the Lord out of ignorance, for had they known it, in honor of His Person they would not have perverted justice.

No, it is saying that no-one knew that which God had prepared.

Blending concepts is a really bad idea.

And what we see is that very thing throughout the New Testament.

Sure they wanted Christ to came, but, they did not want a Messiah that would die. And when did they believe in His resurrection? He had to convince them of that Himself. And when did the Comforter come?

Pentecost.

(3) I've established that the Devil knew that Christ had to die to save His elect, and he tempted Him to abandon that path.

You've already made that claim:

Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
He knew Christ had to suffer in Jerusalem for the salvation of His elect, and tempted Him to abandon that path.

Where is your Scripture?

Satan suspected Christ was from God, but Satan had no clue as to the Gospel.

We see demons recognized Him, thus Satan would have known He was from God, perhaps that He was the Son of God, but, the Gospel was hidden from him as it was from all men.

Angels are included in this passage which shows that...


1 Peter 1:9-12

King James Version (KJV)

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.



Only God knew.

You kick against this view when it is apparent you have to blend concepts concerning wisdom, and have no Scriptural basis for certain points you think relevant. The Wisdom of the Proverb is not the Gospel. Read the chapter and you will see that. One is not saved by being wise, but by coming under obedience to the Gospel.

Those who perish in the Tribulation will be destroyed because they do not do that:


2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

King James Version (KJV)

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;



And again consider the Writer of Hebrews' opening statement:


Hebrews 1

King James Version (KJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;




What that means is that God spoke to the fathers by the Prophets in time past, but today speaks through His Son.

Two different things in at least two different eras, though we include all Eras or Ages, for God has spoken through Prophets since at the least...Noah.

Now it won't take you long to read this "tome," and if you will address the primary point which is that the Gospel was not revealed prior to it's time, you will see you kick against a goad you will win against.


God bless.

 

[Aaron]

(1) No one reads tomes

(2) Wisdom crieth in the streets. It's out in the open. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth His handiwork.

But why don't the princes know it? Because they're blind and deaf.

"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

(3) And if discerning Christ's Person and His plan are one and the same, then the devils knew Christ's plan.

 

[Darrell C]

(1) No one reads tomes

(2) Wisdom crieth in the streets. It's out in the open. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth His handiwork.

But why don't the princes know it? Because they're blind and deaf.

"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

(3) And if discerning Christ's Person and His plan are one and the same, then the devils knew Christ's plan.

I've said what I can say, and until your ready to address the points made there is really nothing else I can do for you.


God bless.

 

[kyredneck]

...Only a deluded person would think these prophesies (the ones bolded) have already taken place; have already been fulfilled....

Are you so carnal with the scriptures that you believe the spiritual is not real? That if it can't be seen with the eye or touched with the hand it doesn't exist?

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Jn 18

20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.
Lu 17

18 For ye are not come unto a mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
22 but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable hosts of angels, Heb 12

5 ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Pet 2

 

[Aaron]

I've said what I can say, and until your ready to address the points made there is really nothing else I can do for you.


God bless.

At last, a brief post. Yeah, same here.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Are you so carnal with the scriptures that you believe the spiritual is not real? That if it can't be seen with the eye or touched with the hand it doesn't exist?

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Jn 18

20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.
Lu 17

18 For ye are not come unto a mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
22 but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable hosts of angels, Heb 12

5 ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Pet 2

Well done :thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

At last, a brief post. Yeah, same here.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Darrell C]

Well done :thumbs:

Perhaps you would like to answer the points raised which your friends will not, to which you give a thumbs up to, lol.

Since when is running away from discussion something to be applauded?

But here you go, one point for you to address to show that your opinion means anything more than cheerleading:

Now, explain this one verse:




Romans 16:24-26

King James Version (KJV)

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:



If you can show how this does not say that the Gospel was not revealed until the "Preaching of Christ," according to the revelation of mystery link to Strong's inserted), which mystery was kept secret (see that link as well) since the world began, but is now (Paul's day) made known to all nations for obedience to that very Gospel...

...then please tell me what it means.

You have supported those who refuse to address the issues, so show now if your opinion is informed in regards to the issues being discussed, or, if you are simply lending support for the sake of friendship.

One is to be applauded, the other...not so much.


God bless.

 

[DHK]

Are you so carnal with the scriptures that you believe the spiritual is not real? That if it can't be seen with the eye or touched with the hand it doesn't exist?

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Jn 18

20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.
Lu 17

18 For ye are not come unto a mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
22 but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable hosts of angels, Heb 12

5 ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Pet 2

Salvation is spiritual too. Christ really didn't die on the cross; never rose from the dead. The J.W.'s believe it was a "spiritual resurrection," why don't you?
Just allegorize everything away.
There is a time when the ridiculous becomes the insane, and you are beginning to pass that mark. There are hundreds of OT scripture which talk about an earthly millennial kingdom. All of them cannot be so easily dismissed.
When Zechariah spoke of Mount Olivet what do you think he meant?
The tree of life in heaven??
Scripture cannot be ignored. You must have an alternative for each and every scripture posted. You don't.