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Featured Work Out Your Own Salvation?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Dec 14, 2015.

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  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    During my lifetime serving my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ I have heard these passages of scripture applied and misapplied to my understanding of these scriptures. Apostle Paul was telling these listeners and us to work out our own salvation... To me if he tells us to work it, it is our own salvation... He is not saying work to get salvation but work because you already have that salvation to work. Not only is he saying that we have that salvation to work but that God in his mercy and grace in working is us to bring that salvation to fruition. To receive the benefits and blessing of our own salvation we work... The application to the word salvation in scripture is not always in reference to eternal salvation.. That is my understanding!... As always your comments are always appreciated... Brother Glen

    Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
     
    #1 tyndale1946, Dec 14, 2015
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  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Yup! :)
     
    #2 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 14, 2015
  3. Browner

    Browner Member

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    Nope!
    Salvation is a life-long process ...
    because it can be forfeited, walked away from, lost, etc.
    Thus, God's grace (unmerited favor) can be taken back.
    Just what do you think all of those NT dire warnings are all about?
    Oh, yes, they are all lies, bluffs, exaggerations, con jobs, etc.
     
    #3 Browner, Dec 15, 2015
  4. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    It's your misinterpretations of these passages that fit into the latter.
     
    #4 Internet Theologian, Dec 15, 2015
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  5. Browner

    Browner Member

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    Let's just consider one passage ... Revelation 21:7-8
    "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

    To me, it is obvious that this must apply to
    EVERYONE on the face of the earth.
    Non-believers who are habitual sinners go to Hell.
    But ...
    Believers who are habitual sinners go to Heaven.
    Ridiculous !!!

    The question is: Can God get the believing ones
    to repent and return to the sheep-fold?
    Man's free-will reigns supreme!
    God does not. WOW.
    Ain't no robots here, hear?
     
    #5 Browner, Dec 15, 2015
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Perhaps the problem is that you hold to a benign salvation - one that can "save" but that cannot change the nature of the one being saved.
     
    #6 JonC, Dec 15, 2015
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  7. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    There is no such thing as a believer (a true convert) who lives in habitual sin. This is why these are deceived but not converted; Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Cor. 6:9-11, Matthew 7:21-23.
     
    #7 Internet Theologian, Dec 15, 2015
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  8. Browner

    Browner Member

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    Then the churches are chuck-full of unconverted "believers".
    And you're telling us that they do not have the indwelling Spirit?
    No way, Jose.
    But, perhaps that's why having the Spirit
    does NOT mean one has been born-again.
     
    #8 Browner, Dec 15, 2015
  9. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. By the way a true 'believer' is qualified by the careful examination of the Scriptures and the Spirit of the living God.
     
    #9 Internet Theologian, Dec 15, 2015
  10. Browner

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    Now you're really talkin' nonsense, and are hereby disqualified.
    No true born-again believers throughout history w/o the U/L ... ridiculous!

    Another disqualification will be the abject failure
    to weasel out of explaining Romans 6:16-23.
    Oh, there are others ... but one at a time is enough.

    Another disqualified theologian ... what a pity!
     
    #10 Browner, Dec 15, 2015
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  11. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    I agree in a sense.

    Our JUSTIFICATION is not a process, but an event that occurs the moment we are in Christ by faith. It is also our ongoing status as long as we are abiding IN Christ. Since our justification is based on the perfect merit and finished work of Christ, there is nothing we can do to add to it. Therefore those are incorrect to suggest that justification is progressive.

    Our SANCTIFICATION, however, is indeed a process, which begins at regeneration and progresses as we grow in grace as we depend on Christ through the power of the Spirit. It's a process that is finally completed at our GLORIFICATION for those who abide in Christ to the end.

    Sadly, this is true, hence all the commands to "abide" and "continue".

    I'd say rather that God's grace can be resisted, spurned, and thus "received in vain".

    The warnings are indeed serious and straightforward, and are not hypothetical, nor do they merely warn against losing "rewards" or "fellowship".
     
    #11 Doubting Thomas, Dec 15, 2015
  12. Browner

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    DT ... I am extremely impressed!
    There actually is someone here who knows what's going on!
    Bless you!
     
    #12 Browner, Dec 15, 2015
  13. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Wow. I guess the Spirit's guarantee and having my name graven on God's hand isn't enough. I need to earn my salvation by not sinning and making sure I do everything to please God. OK - I always thought that it was God who kept me but I see it's me. So I can boast!! I earned this salvation I have!
     
    #13 annsni, Dec 15, 2015
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  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    That seems the crux of the argument. Salvation is either a work of God (whereby God gives to a person a new heart and spirit and puts his Spirit in that person and causes that person to walk in his statutes) or it is a work of man (either in obtaining, keeping, or both).
     
    #14 JonC, Dec 15, 2015
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  15. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Gee Whiz... I didn't think I would get everybody all riled up... The key to the verses I put up are in this word (obeyed)... Question has God ever cast away his people that he loved?... Did they cease to be his children in OT because of their sins?... Paul never believed that!... Read Romans 11 and see the goodness and severity of God... Did you ceased to be naturally speaking your fathers son or daughter if you disobeyed?... You see the judgements of God, and it is true he judges when his children get out of line and I know I have felt his rod and I know other have too... But we children get caught up to much in his judgement and fail to see his mercy and grace... I speak from experience!... Will not the God of the Universe do right?... I believe in my heart and soul ALL he purposed WILL be accomplished!... Don't you?... Brother Glen
     
    #15 tyndale1946, Dec 15, 2015
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  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes, I think that we have to take this as a whole:

    "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you maynot sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he himself is the propitiation for our sins" and "no one who is born of God practices sin because his seed abides in him."

    Too often people take bits and pieces to built upon, but I don't think Scripture allows us to do that.

    We may sin, but we are never mastered by sin. If we have been reborn then we have....well....been reborn. That is, not the same as we was before. But yes, God will never abandon us.
     
    #16 JonC, Dec 15, 2015
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  17. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    We may sin, but we are never mastered by sin... AMEN!... Brother Glen
     
    #17 tyndale1946, Dec 15, 2015
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  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Eternal salvation is inclusive of three aspects:

    Justification: Rom_5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

    Sanctification: 2Th_2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

    Glorification: Rom_8:17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

    These are all eternal results of Christ's finished work on the cross:

    1Co_1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
     
    #18 Revmitchell, Dec 15, 2015
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  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    "Work out your own salvation." Take that perfect salvation God has placed within you and externalize it. Work it out so that people can see your faith by your good works and glorify the Father in heaven.

    As to the other stupid argument. It is hubris to think you can add anything of merit to the finished work of Christ on the cross. It, in fact, identifies a person who is lost and has never had salvation.

    Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
     
    #19 TCassidy, Dec 15, 2015
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  20. Browner

    Browner Member

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    It's just simply called co-operating with God and His desires.
    Is that too much to ask of you? ... If so, you're not saved.
    Just E.G., Jesus insisted several times:
    "I you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
     
    #20 Browner, Dec 16, 2015
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