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What is AM radio? <jk>

Seriously, where are these sermons that tell us one can say a prayer once, no repentance, be assured of heaven, then "go out and sin up a storm", show no fruit of Christian living, and be saved? Where are they? Surely this new thing called the internet has got a recording of these dozen sermons that are broadcast every 2 hours.

You guys need to post a link to a couple of these sermons otherwise all you are doing is blowing smoke.

 

You do not know my position.
My position in not what you think. It is not Free Grace Theology. If you say it is then you simply lay a false accusation, and remain ignorant of the facts.

You offered it here in an inane sort of way:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/the-casual-gospel.97295/page-13#post-2193153

Actually you never even tried. Icon did better. But his attempt was pitiful as well. It was simply a denial.

Unsubstantiated opinion. Opinion without evidence is just that: opinion. And it doesn't count for much.

The fact that you can't refute what I believe doesn't say much. Perhaps it is you that holds the error.

A Confession of Faith is different than a Statement of Faith. Perhaps you should find out that difference before further embarrassing yourself.
Furthermore I have never posted my confession of faith which further puts you in ignorance of what I believe.

I gave you scripture how your answer doesn't make sense. But you don't seem to believe the biblical account.

The Biblical account says you would not be able to unless you were a close disciple, a family member, or one of the soldiers that crucified him. .Is that what you are claiming?

The scenario is from the Bible. There were crowds of people there witnessing the account or rather the event. What makes you think that you would be one of the very special and elite ones?

Your OP is full of innuendo, void of evidence, and lacks any valid documentation.

I pointed one thing out to you that makes your entire OP invalid, and that is one of your last points.
No baptist church that I know of, would accept a person into their membership without being baptized. Yet you claim there are. You bear false witness. You won't give evidence. Perhaps you are attacking a cult and attributing that cult to Baptists. This is sowing discord among the brethren which is an abomination before the Lord, one of the things that God hates.

I have heard of all these things. But I don't practice them. You bear false witness. In truth and blunt words, without any evidence: you are a liar.

 

Actually that thread was a non starter for discussion of the accusations made toward DTS.

You didn't produce eye witness testimony and if I recall correctly relied upon frail evidence. But, again, I may be wrong, and haven't time to look back at that thread.

Start a new one is the best you can do. Make it specific about DTS teaching and statements in which incorporate eye witness testimony that is first hand.

That is the Scriptural way of approaching the matter.

Until such evidence is proven correct it is a matter of accusation and opinion only and not fact.

As I mentioned, it would be appropriate for you to also contact current and former staff and students of DTS for their input.

You have made a very serious doctrinal and academic claim.

It effects members of this board not just in the standard the school represents, but the credibility of all graduates of that institution.

The topic must be public and published that all be warned or shown the truth of false claims.

I would expect you to conduct conversations toward me and others without even the suggestion of demeaning statements such as you ended the quoted post above. Such is so very unnecessary and worthless in providing any support for your expressed thinking.

I will wait to see the thread opened and what you offer as proof.

 

Look IT, here is part of your OP. It is very simple and straight forward

Now this is a Baptist debate forum. We are Baptists. I have challenged you what Baptists churches consider baptism as optional and you come up with nothing. If it is other churches than Baptist you are in the wrong forum. Go to the Other Christian Religions and present your poison there. Baptists require baptism, and in fact, a baptized regenerated church membership. You are not describing a Baptist church. You are simply bearing false witness against the Baptists.

Later on you posted to Martin:

I didn't catch this at first. But here is where you showed your hand. It is really a rant against Dallas. Why didn't you just say so. I don't know much about Dallas. I would never go there because it is not Baptist. If you have any similar beliefs to your cheerleader, Icon, then you hate it with a passion simply because it is dispensational and was founded with dispensational doctrine in view.
In its former years it was very fundamental. I don't know what it believes now. Many schools change over the years, and many of them not for the better.
Chafer, Ryrie, were good men. You could have learned a lot from them.

But who else was highly connected to the school, even as faculty?
How about H.A. Ironside, Ray Steadman, J. Vernon McGee, Daniel Wallace (faculty), Merill Unger (faculty), Dwight Pentecost (faculty), and many others.

Okay, so you disdain them. It isn't a Baptist Seminary. Dallas Theological Seminary I don't see the name Baptist there. I did read it is evangelical and interdenominational. Thus your veiled attack on Baptists through this school is out of order. This is a Baptist forum. It is for Baptists. You are out of order. Your complaint about Dallas belongs in another forum. Furthermore you should have identified it as such. There is no need to hide behind a tree. What are you ashamed of?

 

No you do not. You accuse me of being Free Grace Theology which means you know little of where I stand.

There is nothing of my position stated there.

I didn't make things up. I gave a full and complete exposition of Heb.12:14. I got a disagree from Icon, and some response stating that I don't know what I am talking about. I got even less from you. Neither one of you even tried to respond to the exposition of the text that I gave. You just denied what I said. Not much for debate are you?

Not according to some here. You can find a statement of faith almost anywhere. A Confession of Faith is not so easily found. There is a difference.

I quoted exactly what you said and explained how it slandered most of us who are on the board. You are still blind to it aren't you. Baptists baptize before accepting people into membership. You say otherwise. This is a Baptist forum. If you are not a Baptist you are not permitted to post here.

Again, it is a Baptist forum. There are other forums for SDA's, J.W.,s etc. If you are not Baptist go elsewhere.

You fail to produce evidence. You are attributing that which is not Baptist to Baptist churches. That is not honest. If it is not honest it is deceitful. I call it lying.

 

DHK

Monster strawman alert.....here we go again-

So is Internet Theologian.....has he stated he is not a baptist?

Could you post any post where he says he is not a baptist?

If you can post a quote where he says directly that he is not a baptist?

He was sticking to the Op.
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He no where said anything like that, you are fabricating this.

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Isn't this nice....tell a baptist to go to another forum and accuse him of teaching poison....really nice.

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False witness is your forte.....as you are doing right here...do you think by accusing him of it , somehow it will deflect away from what you do all the time???Rolleyes

If by your own mouth you do not know much about Dallas, how do you say his claims are not correct.?

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Good for you...Sleep

So here we go....take a cheap shot, call names, great post DHK

I still have a couple of hundred tapes from DTS.....S. Lewis Johnson,William McRae, Bob Deffinbaugh, Sam Storms....so once again you fabricate storiesCautious

yet you claim you do not learn from them, you just use your bible, remember?

Could you post where he said that? He has pointed out error from some of the men, serious error.

most graduates lead baptist churches...see here,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Theological_Seminary
Alumni

• Gregory Beale, former president of the Evangelical Theological Society
• Michael J. Easley, former president of Moody Bible Institute
• Tony Evans, pastor and widely-syndicated radio broadcaster
• F. David Farnell, professor of New Testament at The Master's Seminary
• J. Harry Faught, pastor, college professor, and founding president of the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada
• Chip Ingram, pastor and orator, founder of Living on the Edge
• Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas
• Mark Keough, Republican member of the Texas House of Representatives
• David Klingler, former NFL player and current professor of Bible Exposition
• Hal Lindsey, author of The Late, Great Planet Earth
• Duane Litfin, former president of Wheaton College
• J. Vernon McGee, founder of "Thru the Bible Radio Network" program
• Scott O'Grady, pilot whose story formed the basis for the film Behind Enemy Lines
• Jim Rayburn, founder of Young Life
• Andy Stanley, author, and pastor of North Point Community Church
• Ray Stedman, evangelical Christian pastor, and author.
• Joseph Stowell, former president of Moody Bible Institute, current president of Cornerstone University
• Kenneth N. Taylor, creator of The Living Bible and the founder of Tyndale House
• Dr. John Townsend, award-winning co-author of Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life
• Bruce Wilkinson, founder of Walk Thru the Bible and author of The Prayer of Jabez
• Paul Nyquist, current president of Moody Bible Institute
• Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Messianic Jewish scholar and founder of Ariel Ministries

Faculty

• Craig A. Blaising, former Professor of Systematic Theology, proponent of progressive dispensationalism
• Darrell Bock, Research Professor of New Testament
• Buist M. Fanning, Professor of New Testament studies
• John D. Hannah, Scholar of Reformation Theology
• Howard Hendricks
• Zane C. Hodges
• Harold Hoehner, Distinguished Professor of New Testament Studies
• Harry A. Ironside, visiting lecturer from 1925-'43
• Eugene Merrill, Distinguished Professor of Old Testament Studies
• J. Dwight Pentecost, Distinguished Professor of Bible Exposition
• Charles Caldwell Ryrie
• Merrill Unger, Professor of Old Testament Studies
• Daniel B. Wallace, Prolific Textual critic and Greek grammarian
• Bruce Waltke, Professor of Old Testament Studies
• John F. Walvoord

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The op was not veiled at all. It discussed a list of problems.
The only attack is YOU ATTACKING HIMCautious

He is a baptist despite your attempts to slander himDevilish

 

You have a nice looking banner. Too bad it isn't true.

Did I say he isn't Baptist. Quote me. Or put your reading glasses on.

As has been pointed out by others, his OP is flawed. It provides no evidence for the things claimed therein.
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I am not fabricating lies. Show me where he identified any church. He could have been talking of the followers of the Sun Myung Moon for all I know. He never mentioned names.

Do you need comprehension? I didn't say another "board." We have forums for non-baptists or non-baptist topics. If he is speaking of Dallas then it is inter-denominational. Why is it in a Baptist "forum"?

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What false witness? Or are you also without knowledge of what Baptists teach?

I didn't until yesterday when I looked it up on the internet.
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How am I fabricating stories. I am not the one who is anti-dispensational. Don't you fall into that category?

What has that got to do with the price of tea at Dallas? I didn't say I read them.

I did already. It is on the first page in a post to Martin. You can find it for yourself.

I would have no idea. I don't follow the personal lives of these men.

Against who or what? The Moonies? No name was mentioned. No evidence was given. This was pointed out continuously, and not just by me.

Perhaps it is you that is bearing false witness. Quote me where I said he is not a Baptist.
If you can't do that then shut-up about it.

 

Yes indeed....I am am proud to be a cheerleader for fellow baptists when they are exposing falsehood.

 

As far as Baptists are concerned almost all of it is false allegation. It is wrong.

As long as you hide yourself with some unknown identity one assumes you are speaking of Baptists since this is a Baptist forum, not one for the followers of Joel Osteen, or Benny Hinn, et. al. No one knows who you are referencing.

Yes, and some of them should be moved. However, at least they are properly labeled. Right from the very beginning, from the OP onward we know the poster is speaking of the RCC. You never identified anyone and that is the difference.

It is a Baptist forum. Your silence is wrong. When you use the generic "you" on a Baptist forum it is assumed you are talking about them. Hence the bearing false witness.

First, I had to re-read the thread.
Second, I had to do some research on Dallas Seminary.
Third, I had to be educated enough to associate the names you mentioned with Dallas, which only happened in the last couple of days when I went to a website explaining the history of Dallas.

Perhaps not, but it has influenced some against Dallas, and that fact in and of itself is important enough to mention. It creates bias.
You mention easy-believism. Has it ever occurred to you that all of us might be against easy-believism?
We just might not have the same theology as you do, and don't take the same approach you do.
What we do object to is your OP, and the lack of evidence in the things you have said.

 

Yes indeed....I am am proud to be a cheerleader for fellow baptists when they are exposing falsehood.

I am now anti dispensational yes, that is true. That does not mean I hate these men. I have learned much by each of these men, and they seemed to be godly teachers.
That being said...even a godly teacher can go off on a topic based on a wrong hermenutic, or some other reason. I can keep the issues distinct.

 

Hey, I think you are a bit mixed up on the number of BAPTIST churches the list below have as pastors. There is one on the list that is the pastor of a Baptist church! That is a church that has in the name Baptist.

There are a LOT of Bible type churches that hold to immersion and would agree with Baptist views, but they are not by statement of name, nor by documents of faith proclaiming themselves or affiliated with or as Baptist.

The same goes for the faculty. I am not certain that any of the current faculty identify as "Baptist" but more often are "Bible" or "Community" church associated.

Icon, your on the wrong side of this argument as verified by the list you produced.

That is not to say that if one were to attend a church in which a DTS person is in leadership, that the church does not reflect Baptist teaching, and have many of the same doctrinal views of the typical Baptist, but the fact is that BAPTIST they are not.

DHK is correct, and I recommend that you reexamine your confrontation in THIS point with him.

IT has very little proof from what I have been able to discern when it relates to DTS. That is why I have called for him to produce evidence. So far, he hasn't.

I am not in a position to know if there is evidence or not, because IT hasn't opened a thread and given room for the cause to be discussed - that is specific to DTS and not clouded.

IT has made a great accusation that needs to be openly aired on this public forum.

The matter is a determination of heretical teaching coming from a school that is known world wide by the long list of well known graduates (as your list shows).

What I have done in previous posts is show from the documents of the school the accusations by IT are unfounded. However, if he has first hand, eye witness accounts that prove what he has accused of the school, then it is incumbent upon him to produce those reports.

If not, then the accusations are unfounded and he should be ashamed.

But, what I don't like, is the demeaning temperament of the posts. It is one thing to point out Scripture error. It is a whole not matter to call someone a liar. Frankly, I am disappointed the moderators and administrators are not clamping down on such name calling.

 

So, are you saying you have no first hand account of the teaching of DTS?

Are you admitting that you have no eye witness accounts of the classroom interaction of DTS?

Isn't it a matter of Scripture principle that a believer who makes such accusations against the brethren must have at LEAST two or three witnesses?

Unless you can produce eye witness testimony of first hand accounts, then it would certainly seem you have little proof to offer, and are in fact in violation of Scripture, yourself.

Perhaps, I am wrong, and you can bring the proof. That is all I have asked and all that the Scriptures require.