The Casual gospel

[Internet Theologian]

Oh, and by the way agedman, I already made such a thread, and you added your 2 cents and refused in that thread to acknowledge the evidence therein that supports this OP as well.

Yep. Pretense of ignorance is rampant with you.

https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/free-grace-theology-mocking-god.96836/page-4

 

[Internet Theologian]

I have not taken one side or another. You don't know what I believe.

Au contraire

Here is what you know.
1. I am not a Calvinist.
2. I disagree with your interpretation of Heb.12:14 and the other verse recently quoted.

What interpretation of Hebrews 12:14? Where did I offer this?

But to your dismay I do not believe all the tenets of either Free Grace Theology, Easy-believism, etc.

You believe in enough of them to be in grave error and you do in fact espouse and preach easy-believism. In fact you've defended the latter in this very thread.

You don't know what I believe, and yet go on laying false accusations anyway.

I in fact do know what you believe, you've expressed your error often enough on here that any person who has paid attention is aware of it.

I know this too; that you employ a statement of faith but ridicule confessions of faith which are the same things. Hypocrisy on your part or just blind to your own allowances I do not know!

I point out your errors, and you refuse to acknowledge them.
For example, with a great multitude of people surrounding the cross there is no way that you could no that the thief was a saved person. So don't claim things you know not.
Neither would you be able to determine that Lot was a just person, declared just by God.

I answered your question about the thief. Here is your question yet again:

Could you outwardly judge that the thief on the cross was a transformed saved person?

Yes, I can. Can you?

Instead of being rational you come up with an asinine scenario of if I had been there I couldn't have heard what they both said. That sir is an absurd argument and is senseless, but it serves your purpose to avoid the text and admitting that another person other than you is actually correct.

Your OP makes allegations which are false. I have pointed them out to you. You have failed to respond.

My OP makes allegations that are in fact true and you actually preach some of them yourself.

I've responded and so have others. You've failed to see. You don't want to see.

Since you have never heard of the things in the OP being preached you either live under a rock or you're being your unscrupulous self. My vote is for the former and the latter.

 

[InTheLight]

Put on the AM radio in to scan to dial you hear about a dozen of them in 2 hrs

What is AM radio? <jk>

Seriously, where are these sermons that tell us one can say a prayer once, no repentance, be assured of heaven, then "go out and sin up a storm", show no fruit of Christian living, and be saved? Where are they? Surely this new thing called the internet has got a recording of these dozen sermons that are broadcast every 2 hours.

You guys need to post a link to a couple of these sermons otherwise all you are doing is blowing smoke.

 

[DHK]

Au contraire

You do not know my position.
My position in not what you think. It is not Free Grace Theology. If you say it is then you simply lay a false accusation, and remain ignorant of the facts.

What interpretation of Hebrews 12:14? Where did I offer this?

You offered it here in an inane sort of way:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/the-casual-gospel.97295/page-13#post-2193153

Actually you never even tried. Icon did better. But his attempt was pitiful as well. It was simply a denial.

You believe in enough of them to be in grave error and you do in fact espouse and preach easy-believism. In fact you've defended the latter in this very thread.

Unsubstantiated opinion. Opinion without evidence is just that: opinion. And it doesn't count for much.

I in fact do know what you believe, you've expressed your error often enough on here that any person who has paid attention is aware of it.

The fact that you can't refute what I believe doesn't say much. Perhaps it is you that holds the error.

I know this too; that you employ a statement of faith but ridicule confessions of faith which are the same things. Hypocrisy on your part or just blind to your own allowances I do not know!

A Confession of Faith is different than a Statement of Faith. Perhaps you should find out that difference before further embarrassing yourself.
Furthermore I have never posted my confession of faith which further puts you in ignorance of what I believe.

I answered your question about the thief. Here is your question yet again:

I gave you scripture how your answer doesn't make sense. But you don't seem to believe the biblical account.

Yes, I can. Can you?

The Biblical account says you would not be able to unless you were a close disciple, a family member, or one of the soldiers that crucified him. .Is that what you are claiming?

Instead of being rational you come up with an asinine scenario of if I had been there I couldn't have heard what they both said. That sir is an absurd argument and is senseless, but it serves your purpose to avoid the text and admitting that another person other than you is actually correct.

The scenario is from the Bible. There were crowds of people there witnessing the account or rather the event. What makes you think that you would be one of the very special and elite ones?

My OP makes allegations that are in fact true and you actually preach some of them yourself.

Your OP is full of innuendo, void of evidence, and lacks any valid documentation.

I've responded and so have others. You've failed to see. You don't want to see.

I pointed one thing out to you that makes your entire OP invalid, and that is one of your last points.
No baptist church that I know of, would accept a person into their membership without being baptized. Yet you claim there are. You bear false witness. You won't give evidence. Perhaps you are attacking a cult and attributing that cult to Baptists. This is sowing discord among the brethren which is an abomination before the Lord, one of the things that God hates.

Since you have never heard of the things in the OP being preached you either live under a rock or you're being your unscrupulous self. My vote is for the former and the latter.

I have heard of all these things. But I don't practice them. You bear false witness. In truth and blunt words, without any evidence: you are a liar.

 

[agedman]

Oh, and by the way agedman, I already made such a thread, and you added your 2 cents and refused in that thread to acknowledge the evidence therein that supports this OP as well.

Yep. Pretense of ignorance is rampant with you.

https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/free-grace-theology-mocking-god.96836/page-4

Actually that thread was a non starter for discussion of the accusations made toward DTS.

You didn't produce eye witness testimony and if I recall correctly relied upon frail evidence. But, again, I may be wrong, and haven't time to look back at that thread.

Start a new one is the best you can do. Make it specific about DTS teaching and statements in which incorporate eye witness testimony that is first hand.

That is the Scriptural way of approaching the matter.

Until such evidence is proven correct it is a matter of accusation and opinion only and not fact.

As I mentioned, it would be appropriate for you to also contact current and former staff and students of DTS for their input.

You have made a very serious doctrinal and academic claim.

It effects members of this board not just in the standard the school represents, but the credibility of all graduates of that institution.

The topic must be public and published that all be warned or shown the truth of false claims.

I would expect you to conduct conversations toward me and others without even the suggestion of demeaning statements such as you ended the quoted post above. Such is so very unnecessary and worthless in providing any support for your expressed thinking.

I will wait to see the thread opened and what you offer as proof.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Actually that thread was a non starter for discussion of the accusations made toward DTS.You didn't produce eye witness testimony and if I recall correctly relied upon frail evidence. But, again, I may be wrong, and haven't time to look back at that thread.

Yep, you're both wrong and are in a pretense of ignorance. That and you make conclusions but aren't sure if they are correct because you have even bothered to look at the evidence. This is your own words. Why should I even bother to address you when you're in willful ignorance of facts??

Start a new one is the best you can do.

You can't see the forest for the trees. Open eyes? Look around?

Make it specific about DTS teaching and statements in which incorporate eye witness testimony that is first hand. That is the Scriptural way of approaching the matter. Until such evidence is proven correct it is a matter of accusation and opinion only and not fact. As I mentioned, it would be appropriate for you to also contact current and former staff and students of DTS for their input.
You have made a very serious doctrinal and academic claim. It effects members of this board not just in the standard the school represents, but the credibility of all graduates of that institution. The topic must be public and published that all be warned or shown the truth of false claims.

'Make it specific about DTS teachings?' Seriously???? Are you even paying attention? You don't even know the context of the argument?! Who said the false teachings that come from proponents at the school make it official and specific DTS teaching? Again, why should I even bother answering you when you're clueless and making false assumptions part of your argument???

The eye witness testimony is in the things Hodges, Ryrie and others teach. These things are well known in the real world and you're oblivious to them. And there you go again aggrandizing yourself as if you're defending someones honor, or in this case DTS.

Go do some study, find the things that Zane Hodges has taught, that Ryrie has taught, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindoll. Compare what they teach to the links Iconoclast has provided. If you can't see it then you are very unfamiliar with what they teach and since you are in such ignorance you probably need to bow out until you're up to speed. I mean this sincerely because you have no clue and are making false assumptions!

I would expect you to conduct conversations toward me and others without even the suggestion of demeaning statements such as you ended the quoted post above. Such is so very unnecessary and worthless in providing any support for your expressed thinking. I will wait to see the thread opened and what you offer as proof.

Hey tell you what agedman when you come in here calling me names, slandering, maligning while over looking the behavior of another who does this I'm going to put you in your place for being a hypocrite. Don't like that? Then don't address me hypocritically while you allow another to continuously lie. Learn to address me appropriately without grandstanding yourself. You bear a false balance and need to put an end to it.

And learn to stop adding false assumptions into your argument. Perhaps I was wrong, yours isn't a pretense of ignorance of the matter it's simply ignorance in and of itself. My apologies.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Oh, I see you're calling me a liar here. Let's take a look.

You do not know my position.
My position in not what you think. It is not Free Grace Theology. If you say it is then you simply lay a false accusation, and remain ignorant of the facts.

I know your position. You argue it on here day in and day out and misrepresent what others say.

Like right here:

You offered it here in an inane sort of way:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/the-casual-gospel.97295/page-13#post-2193153

Actually you never even tried. Icon did better. But his attempt was pitiful as well. It was simply a denial.

See? You stated I made an interpretation yet now you admit that you were making things up. Now if I didn't do it how then did Icon do better?

A Confession of Faith is different than a Statement of Faith. Perhaps you should find out that difference before further embarrassing yourself.

They serve the same purpose both stating what is believed about God, the Scriptures, salvation and etc. You're simply in denial and that is what is embarrassing that you don't even know this plain fact.

And here you do it again:

I pointed one thing out to you that makes your entire OP invalid, and that is one of your last points. No baptist church that I know of, would accept a person into their membership without being baptized. Yet you claim there are. You bear false witness. You won't give evidence. Perhaps you are attacking a cult and attributing that cult to Baptists. This is sowing discord among the brethren which is an abomination before the Lord, one of the things that God hates.

Really? I said all that? Not at all. Here is what I actually said:

Baptism? Optional, don’t worry about that Acts 2:41 thing. (not that there is a such thing as regeneration by water baptism, mind you, it’s just optional)

Where did I even say 'Baptist'? Where did I say Baptists receive these into membership? That's right, nowhere. I'm the one bearing false witness? Not even close, that's your doing.

I have heard of all these things. But I don't practice them. You bear false witness. In truth and blunt words, without any evidence: you are a liar.

No need for the personal attack that is totally unsubstantiated fabrication on your part. Any person who wants to take the time to look back can see that it isn't me that is lying here.

 

[DHK]

Look IT, here is part of your OP. It is very simple and straight forward

Baptism? Optional, don’t worry about that Acts 2:41 thing. (not that there is a such thing as regeneration by water baptism, mind you, it’s just optional)

Now this is a Baptist debate forum. We are Baptists. I have challenged you what Baptists churches consider baptism as optional and you come up with nothing. If it is other churches than Baptist you are in the wrong forum. Go to the Other Christian Religions and present your poison there. Baptists require baptism, and in fact, a baptized regenerated church membership. You are not describing a Baptist church. You are simply bearing false witness against the Baptists.

Later on you posted to Martin:

These things were popularized, to some extent by Lewis Sperry Chafer, Zane Hodges, Charles Ryrie among others in what is formally Free Grace Theology.

I didn't catch this at first. But here is where you showed your hand. It is really a rant against Dallas. Why didn't you just say so. I don't know much about Dallas. I would never go there because it is not Baptist. If you have any similar beliefs to your cheerleader, Icon, then you hate it with a passion simply because it is dispensational and was founded with dispensational doctrine in view.
In its former years it was very fundamental. I don't know what it believes now. Many schools change over the years, and many of them not for the better.
Chafer, Ryrie, were good men. You could have learned a lot from them.

But who else was highly connected to the school, even as faculty?
How about H.A. Ironside, Ray Steadman, J. Vernon McGee, Daniel Wallace (faculty), Merill Unger (faculty), Dwight Pentecost (faculty), and many others.

Okay, so you disdain them. It isn't a Baptist Seminary. Dallas Theological Seminary I don't see the name Baptist there. I did read it is evangelical and interdenominational. Thus your veiled attack on Baptists through this school is out of order. This is a Baptist forum. It is for Baptists. You are out of order. Your complaint about Dallas belongs in another forum. Furthermore you should have identified it as such. There is no need to hide behind a tree. What are you ashamed of?

 

[DHK]

Oh, I see you're calling me a liar here. Let's take a look.

No you do not. You accuse me of being Free Grace Theology which means you know little of where I stand.

I know your position. You argue it on here day in and day out and misrepresent what others say.

Like right here:

There is nothing of my position stated there.

See? You stated I made an interpretation yet now you admit that you were making things up. Now if I didn't do it how then did Icon do better?

I didn't make things up. I gave a full and complete exposition of Heb.12:14. I got a disagree from Icon, and some response stating that I don't know what I am talking about. I got even less from you. Neither one of you even tried to respond to the exposition of the text that I gave. You just denied what I said. Not much for debate are you?

They serve the same purpose both stating what is believed about God, the Scriptures, salvation and etc. You're simply in denial and that is what is embarrassing that you don't even know this plain fact.

Not according to some here. You can find a statement of faith almost anywhere. A Confession of Faith is not so easily found. There is a difference.

And here you do it again:

Really? I said all that? Not at all. Here is what I actually said:

I quoted exactly what you said and explained how it slandered most of us who are on the board. You are still blind to it aren't you. Baptists baptize before accepting people into membership. You say otherwise. This is a Baptist forum. If you are not a Baptist you are not permitted to post here.

Where did I even say 'Baptist'? Where did I say Baptists receive these into membership? That's right, nowhere. I'm the one bearing false witness? Not even close, that's your doing.

Again, it is a Baptist forum. There are other forums for SDA's, J.W.,s etc. If you are not Baptist go elsewhere.

No need for the personal attack that is totally unsubstantiated fabrication on your part. Any person who wants to take the time to look back can see that it isn't me that is lying here.

You fail to produce evidence. You are attributing that which is not Baptist to Baptist churches. That is not honest. If it is not honest it is deceitful. I call it lying.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

Monster strawman alert.....here we go again-

Now this is a Baptist debate forum. We are Baptists.

So is Internet Theologian.....has he stated he is not a baptist?

Could you post any post where he says he is not a baptist?

If you can post a quote where he says directly that he is not a baptist?

I have challenged you what Baptists churches consider baptism as optional and you come up with nothing

He was sticking to the Op.
.

If it is other churches than Baptist you are in the wrong forum.

He no where said anything like that, you are fabricating this.

Go to the Other Christian Religions and present your poison there

.

Isn't this nice....tell a baptist to go to another forum and accuse him of teaching poison....really nice.

Baptists require baptism, and in fact, a baptized regenerated church membership. You are not describing a Baptist church. You are simply bearing false witness against the Baptists

.
False witness is your forte.....as you are doing right here...do you think by accusing him of it , somehow it will deflect away from what you do all the time???Rolleyes

Later on you posted to Martin:

I didn't catch this at first. But here is where you showed your hand. It is really a rant against Dallas. Why didn't you just say so. I don't know much about Dallas

If by your own mouth you do not know much about Dallas, how do you say his claims are not correct.?

. I would never go there because it is not Baptist

.

Good for you...Sleep

If you have any similar beliefs to your cheerleader, Icon,

So here we go....take a cheap shot, call names, great post DHK

then you hate it with a passion simply because it is dispensational and was founded with dispensational doctrine in view.

I still have a couple of hundred tapes from DTS.....S. Lewis Johnson,William McRae, Bob Deffinbaugh, Sam Storms....so once again you fabricate storiesCautious

In its former years it was very fundamental. I don't know what it believes now. Many schools change over the years, and many of them not for the better.
Chafer, Ryrie, were good men. You could have learned a lot from them.

But who else was highly connected to the school, even as faculty?
How about H.A. Ironside, Ray Steadman, J. Vernon McGee, Daniel Wallace (faculty), Merill Unger (faculty), Dwight Pentecost (faculty), and many others.

yet you claim you do not learn from them, you just use your bible, remember?

Okay, so you disdain them.

Could you post where he said that? He has pointed out error from some of the men, serious error.

It isn't a Baptist Seminary. Dallas Theological Seminary I don't see the name Baptist there. I did read it is evangelical and interdenominational.

most graduates lead baptist churches...see here,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Theological_Seminary
Alumni

• Gregory Beale, former president of the Evangelical Theological Society
• Michael J. Easley, former president of Moody Bible Institute
• Tony Evans, pastor and widely-syndicated radio broadcaster
• F. David Farnell, professor of New Testament at The Master's Seminary
• J. Harry Faught, pastor, college professor, and founding president of the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada
• Chip Ingram, pastor and orator, founder of Living on the Edge
• Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas
• Mark Keough, Republican member of the Texas House of Representatives
• David Klingler, former NFL player and current professor of Bible Exposition
• Hal Lindsey, author of The Late, Great Planet Earth
• Duane Litfin, former president of Wheaton College
• J. Vernon McGee, founder of "Thru the Bible Radio Network" program
• Scott O'Grady, pilot whose story formed the basis for the film Behind Enemy Lines
• Jim Rayburn, founder of Young Life
• Andy Stanley, author, and pastor of North Point Community Church
• Ray Stedman, evangelical Christian pastor, and author.
• Joseph Stowell, former president of Moody Bible Institute, current president of Cornerstone University
• Kenneth N. Taylor, creator of The Living Bible and the founder of Tyndale House
• Dr. John Townsend, award-winning co-author of Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life
• Bruce Wilkinson, founder of Walk Thru the Bible and author of The Prayer of Jabez
• Paul Nyquist, current president of Moody Bible Institute
• Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Messianic Jewish scholar and founder of Ariel Ministries

Faculty

• Craig A. Blaising, former Professor of Systematic Theology, proponent of progressive dispensationalism
• Darrell Bock, Research Professor of New Testament
• Buist M. Fanning, Professor of New Testament studies
• John D. Hannah, Scholar of Reformation Theology
• Howard Hendricks
• Zane C. Hodges
• Harold Hoehner, Distinguished Professor of New Testament Studies
• Harry A. Ironside, visiting lecturer from 1925-'43
• Eugene Merrill, Distinguished Professor of Old Testament Studies
• J. Dwight Pentecost, Distinguished Professor of Bible Exposition
• Charles Caldwell Ryrie
• Merrill Unger, Professor of Old Testament Studies
• Daniel B. Wallace, Prolific Textual critic and Greek grammarian
• Bruce Waltke, Professor of Old Testament Studies
• John F. Walvoord

Thus your veiled attack on Baptists through this school is out of order

.

The op was not veiled at all. It discussed a list of problems.
The only attack is YOU ATTACKING HIMCautious

This is a Baptist forum. It is for Baptists.

He is a baptist despite your attempts to slander himDevilish

You are out of order.

no...once again if you want to identify the culprit, look in a mirror

Your complaint about Dallas belongs in another forum. Furthermore you should have identified it as such. There is no need to hide behind a tree. What are you ashamed of?

His Op was fine, some of your heroes took a hit and you do not like it.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Look IT, here is part of your OP. It is very simple and straight forward

Quit pretending. Nothing that you quoted from me says what you're accusing.

Now this is a Baptist debate forum. We are Baptists. I have challenged you what Baptists churches consider baptism as optional and you come up with nothing. If it is other churches than Baptist you are in the wrong forum. Go to the Other Christian Religions and present your poison there. Baptists require baptism, and in fact, a baptized regenerated church membership. You are not describing a Baptist church. You are simply bearing false witness against the Baptists.

You've challenged nothing as your accusation is completely false and I've not borne false witness about Baptists. Nothing in what I said said one word about Baptists.

Put an end to your false accusations, OK?

There are threads in the Baptist Forums here, let's see, that talk of Roman Catholicism, SDA, JW's, Evangelical doctrines, and many other topics so your point is moot. Not all things discussed there are about, nor does it have to be about Baptists, it is for topics for Baptists to discuss and not for other denoms. You should have known this, but maybe you're not a Baptist and are unaware, but then again you're a moderator so you should have none the protocol but apparently you're confused about it.

Therefore it's your fault you assumed that the OP was speaking of Baptists in particular, albeit some Baptists do in fact teach the errors that stem from those from DTS, known evangelicals. In fact many Baptists teach from evangelical resources such as these because they are popular teachings so they pick them up and run with them, from hearing them preached, reading their works, you included.

I didn't catch this at first. But here is where you showed your hand. It is really a rant against Dallas. Why didn't you just say so. I don't know much about Dallas. I would never go there because it is not Baptist. If you have any similar beliefs to your cheerleader, Icon, then you hate it with a passion simply because it is dispensational and was founded with dispensational doctrine in view.
In its former years it was very fundamental. I don't know what it believes now. Many schools change over the years, and many of them not for the better. Chafer, Ryrie, were good men. You could have learned a lot from them.

Ahh, here you are, one who denies having learned from men, show contempt for learning from men, poke at others for following men (whatever that is supposed to mean) and are now making admission that they are good and to be learned from?

So it is my fault that you thought this was all against Baptists and that you've just now realized it's about teachings that have stemmed from some within DTS????? Yet you're arguing?

That right there is the problem and you want to blame your assuming on me.

I get it. All this time you've been on a rant and just NOW you are discovering what was actually being argued.

By the way I'm well read on Ryrie and the others on dispensationalism and his theological position. Having grown spiritually I've come to reject his easy-believism and dispy views but this thread isn't about the latter issue.

 

[Internet Theologian]

DHK

Monster strawman alert.....here we go again-


So is Internet Theologian.....has he stated he is not a baptist?

Could you post any post where he says he is not a baptist?

If you can post a quote where he says directly that he is not a baptist?



He was sticking to the Op.
.

He no where said anything like that, you are fabricating this.

.

Isn't this nice....tell a baptist to go to another forum and accuse him of teaching poison....really nice.

.
False witness is your forte.....as you are doing right here...do you think by accusing him of it , somehow it will deflect away from what you do all the time???Rolleyes

If by your own mouth you do not know much about Dallas, how do you say his claims are not correct.?
.

Good for you...Sleep


So here we go....take a cheap shot, call names, great post DHK



I still have a couple of hundred tapes from DTS.....S. Lewis Johnson,William McRae, Bob Deffinbaugh, Sam Storms....so once again you fabricate storiesCautious




yet you claim you do not learn from them, you just use your bible, remember?


Could you post where he said that? He has pointed out error from some of the men, serious error.



most graduates lead baptist churches...see here,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Theological_Seminary
Alumni

• Gregory Beale, former president of the Evangelical Theological Society
• Michael J. Easley, former president of Moody Bible Institute
• Tony Evans, pastor and widely-syndicated radio broadcaster
• F. David Farnell, professor of New Testament at The Master's Seminary
• J. Harry Faught, pastor, college professor, and founding president of the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada
• Chip Ingram, pastor and orator, founder of Living on the Edge
• Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas
• Mark Keough, Republican member of the Texas House of Representatives
• David Klingler, former NFL player and current professor of Bible Exposition
• Hal Lindsey, author of The Late, Great Planet Earth
• Duane Litfin, former president of Wheaton College
• J. Vernon McGee, founder of "Thru the Bible Radio Network" program
• Scott O'Grady, pilot whose story formed the basis for the film Behind Enemy Lines
• Jim Rayburn, founder of Young Life
• Andy Stanley, author, and pastor of North Point Community Church
• Ray Stedman, evangelical Christian pastor, and author.
• Joseph Stowell, former president of Moody Bible Institute, current president of Cornerstone University
• Kenneth N. Taylor, creator of The Living Bible and the founder of Tyndale House
• Dr. John Townsend, award-winning co-author of Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life
• Bruce Wilkinson, founder of Walk Thru the Bible and author of The Prayer of Jabez
• Paul Nyquist, current president of Moody Bible Institute
• Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Messianic Jewish scholar and founder of Ariel Ministries

Faculty

• Craig A. Blaising, former Professor of Systematic Theology, proponent of progressive dispensationalism
• Darrell Bock, Research Professor of New Testament
• Buist M. Fanning, Professor of New Testament studies
• John D. Hannah, Scholar of Reformation Theology
• Howard Hendricks
• Zane C. Hodges
• Harold Hoehner, Distinguished Professor of New Testament Studies
• Harry A. Ironside, visiting lecturer from 1925-'43
• Eugene Merrill, Distinguished Professor of Old Testament Studies
• J. Dwight Pentecost, Distinguished Professor of Bible Exposition
• Charles Caldwell Ryrie
• Merrill Unger, Professor of Old Testament Studies
• Daniel B. Wallace, Prolific Textual critic and Greek grammarian
• Bruce Waltke, Professor of Old Testament Studies
• John F. Walvoord

.

The op was not veiled at all. It discussed a list of problems.
The only attack is YOU ATTACKING HIMCautious


He is a baptist despite your attempts to slander himDevilish

You've nailed him and his false representations of me and it is shameful behavior. Thanks brother! BTW, I am Baptist, Reformed Baptist at that.

 

[DHK]

DHK

Monster strawman alert.....here we go again-

You have a nice looking banner. Too bad it isn't true.

So is Internet Theologian.....has he stated he is not a baptist?

Could you post any post where he says he is not a baptist?

If you can post a quote where he says directly that he is not a baptist?

Did I say he isn't Baptist. Quote me. Or put your reading glasses on.

He was sticking to the Op.

As has been pointed out by others, his OP is flawed. It provides no evidence for the things claimed therein.
.

He no where said anything like that, you are fabricating this.

I am not fabricating lies. Show me where he identified any church. He could have been talking of the followers of the Sun Myung Moon for all I know. He never mentioned names.

Isn't this nice....tell a baptist to go to another forum and accuse him of teaching poison....really nice.

Do you need comprehension? I didn't say another "board." We have forums for non-baptists or non-baptist topics. If he is speaking of Dallas then it is inter-denominational. Why is it in a Baptist "forum"?

.

False witness is your forte.....as you are doing right here...do you think by accusing him of it , somehow it will deflect away from what you do all the time???

What false witness? Or are you also without knowledge of what Baptists teach?

If by your own mouth you do not know much about Dallas, how do you say his claims are not correct.?

I didn't until yesterday when I looked it up on the internet.
.

I still have a couple of hundred tapes from DTS.....S. Lewis Johnson,William McRae, Bob Deffinbaugh, Sam Storms....so once again you fabricate stories

How am I fabricating stories. I am not the one who is anti-dispensational. Don't you fall into that category?

yet you claim you do not learn from them, you just use your bible, remember?

What has that got to do with the price of tea at Dallas? I didn't say I read them.

Could you post where he said that? He has pointed out error from some of the men, serious error.

I did already. It is on the first page in a post to Martin. You can find it for yourself.

most graduates lead baptist churches...see here,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Theological_Seminary
Alumni

I would have no idea. I don't follow the personal lives of these men.

The op was not veiled at all. It discussed a list of problems.
The only attack is YOU ATTACKING HIM

Against who or what? The Moonies? No name was mentioned. No evidence was given. This was pointed out continuously, and not just by me.

He is a baptist despite your attempts to slander himDevilish

Perhaps it is you that is bearing false witness. Quote me where I said he is not a Baptist.
If you can't do that then shut-up about it.

 

[Iconoclast]

You've nailed him and his false representations of me and it is shameful behavior. Thanks brother! BTW, I am Baptist, Reformed Baptist at that.

Yes indeed....I am am proud to be a cheerleader for fellow baptists when they are exposing falsehood.

 

[DHK]

Quit pretending. Nothing that you quoted from me says what you're accusing.

As far as Baptists are concerned almost all of it is false allegation. It is wrong.

You've challenged nothing as your accusation is completely false and I've not borne false witness about Baptists so put an end to your false accusations, OK?

As long as you hide yourself with some unknown identity one assumes you are speaking of Baptists since this is a Baptist forum, not one for the followers of Joel Osteen, or Benny Hinn, et. al. No one knows who you are referencing.

There are threads in the baptist forum here, let's see, that talk of Roman Catholicism, SDA, JW's, and many other topics so your point is moot. Not all things discussed there are about, nor does it have to be about Baptists, it is for topics for Baptists to discuss and not for other denoms. You should have known this, but maybe you're not a Baptist.

Yes, and some of them should be moved. However, at least they are properly labeled. Right from the very beginning, from the OP onward we know the poster is speaking of the RCC. You never identified anyone and that is the difference.

Therefore it's your fault you assumed that the OP was speaking of Baptists in particular,. albeit some Baptist do in fact teach the errors that stem from those from DTS, and are known as evangelicals.

It is a Baptist forum. Your silence is wrong. When you use the generic "you" on a Baptist forum it is assumed you are talking about them. Hence the bearing false witness.

Oh, so it is my fault that you thought this was all against Baptists and just now realized it's about teachings that have stemmed from some within DTS?????

First, I had to re-read the thread.
Second, I had to do some research on Dallas Seminary.
Third, I had to be educated enough to associate the names you mentioned with Dallas, which only happened in the last couple of days when I went to a website explaining the history of Dallas.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!! That right there is the problem and you want to blame your assuming on me. LOL!!!!!

I get it. All this time you've been on a rant and just NOW you are discovering what was actually being argued. LOL!!!!

By the way I'm well read on Ryrie and the others on dispensationalism and his theological position. Having grown spiritually I've come to reject his easy-believism and dispy views but this thread isn't about the latter issue.

Perhaps not, but it has influenced some against Dallas, and that fact in and of itself is important enough to mention. It creates bias.
You mention easy-believism. Has it ever occurred to you that all of us might be against easy-believism?
We just might not have the same theology as you do, and don't take the same approach you do.
What we do object to is your OP, and the lack of evidence in the things you have said.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes indeed....I am am proud to be a cheerleader for fellow baptists when they are exposing falsehood.

You've nailed him and his false representations of me and it is shameful behavior. Thanks brother! BTW, I am Baptist, Reformed Baptist at that.

Yes indeed....I am am proud to be a cheerleader for fellow baptists when they are exposing falsehood.

DHK : you said-

I still have a couple of hundred tapes from DTS.....S. Lewis Johnson,William McRae, Bob Deffinbaugh, Sam Storms....so once again you fabricate stories
How am I fabricating stories. I am not the one who is anti-dispensational. Don't you fall into that category?

I am now anti dispensational yes, that is true. That does not mean I hate these men. I have learned much by each of these men, and they seemed to be godly teachers.
That being said...even a godly teacher can go off on a topic based on a wrong hermenutic, or some other reason. I can keep the issues distinct.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Here is the objective. There are many who in fact teach the things contained in the OP. The main one I want to focus upon now is that these teach one can even apostatize from the faith yet is still 'going to heaven'. This leaves no place for 2 John 2:19 and is in fact false teaching. Zane Hodges teaches they can even become children of the devil; arguing from 1 John and also John 8. This kind of teaching is false and needs to be exposed.

So here is the point: Stop guaranteeing people they are going to heaven no matter what because they've made a profession of faith. Instead warn them with Scripture as they grow; note 1 Cor. 15:2, Colossians 1:22-23.

No one knows what will become of this profession or if it is genuine. Note Matthew 13:1-23 as supporting this. Also note Matthew 9:14-17.

 

[agedman]

Hey, I think you are a bit mixed up on the number of BAPTIST churches the list below have as pastors. There is one on the list that is the pastor of a Baptist church! That is a church that has in the name Baptist.

There are a LOT of Bible type churches that hold to immersion and would agree with Baptist views, but they are not by statement of name, nor by documents of faith proclaiming themselves or affiliated with or as Baptist.

DHK


most graduates lead baptist churches...see here,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Theological_Seminary
Alumni

• Gregory Beale, former president of the Evangelical Theological Society
• Michael J. Easley, former president of Moody Bible Institute
• Tony Evans, pastor and widely-syndicated radio broadcaster
• F. David Farnell, professor of New Testament at The Master's Seminary
• J. Harry Faught, pastor, college professor, and founding president of the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada
• Chip Ingram, pastor and orator, founder of Living on the Edge
• Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas
• Mark Keough, Republican member of the Texas House of Representatives
• David Klingler, former NFL player and current professor of Bible Exposition
• Hal Lindsey, author of The Late, Great Planet Earth
• Duane Litfin, former president of Wheaton College
• J. Vernon McGee, founder of "Thru the Bible Radio Network" program
• Scott O'Grady, pilot whose story formed the basis for the film Behind Enemy Lines
• Jim Rayburn, founder of Young Life
• Andy Stanley, author, and pastor of North Point Community Church
• Ray Stedman, evangelical Christian pastor, and author.
• Joseph Stowell, former president of Moody Bible Institute, current president of Cornerstone University
• Kenneth N. Taylor, creator of The Living Bible and the founder of Tyndale House
• Dr. John Townsend, award-winning co-author of Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life
• Bruce Wilkinson, founder of Walk Thru the Bible and author of The Prayer of Jabez
• Paul Nyquist, current president of Moody Bible Institute
• Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Messianic Jewish scholar and founder of Ariel Ministries

The same goes for the faculty. I am not certain that any of the current faculty identify as "Baptist" but more often are "Bible" or "Community" church associated.

Faculty

• Craig A. Blaising, former Professor of Systematic Theology, proponent of progressive dispensationalism
• Darrell Bock, Research Professor of New Testament
• Buist M. Fanning, Professor of New Testament studies
• John D. Hannah, Scholar of Reformation Theology
• Howard Hendricks
• Zane C. Hodges
• Harold Hoehner, Distinguished Professor of New Testament Studies
• Harry A. Ironside, visiting lecturer from 1925-'43
• Eugene Merrill, Distinguished Professor of Old Testament Studies
• J. Dwight Pentecost, Distinguished Professor of Bible Exposition
• Charles Caldwell Ryrie
• Merrill Unger, Professor of Old Testament Studies
• Daniel B. Wallace, Prolific Textual critic and Greek grammarian
• Bruce Waltke, Professor of Old Testament Studies
• John F. Walvoord

Icon, your on the wrong side of this argument as verified by the list you produced.

That is not to say that if one were to attend a church in which a DTS person is in leadership, that the church does not reflect Baptist teaching, and have many of the same doctrinal views of the typical Baptist, but the fact is that BAPTIST they are not.

DHK is correct, and I recommend that you reexamine your confrontation in THIS point with him.

IT has very little proof from what I have been able to discern when it relates to DTS. That is why I have called for him to produce evidence. So far, he hasn't.

I am not in a position to know if there is evidence or not, because IT hasn't opened a thread and given room for the cause to be discussed - that is specific to DTS and not clouded.

IT has made a great accusation that needs to be openly aired on this public forum.

The matter is a determination of heretical teaching coming from a school that is known world wide by the long list of well known graduates (as your list shows).

What I have done in previous posts is show from the documents of the school the accusations by IT are unfounded. However, if he has first hand, eye witness accounts that prove what he has accused of the school, then it is incumbent upon him to produce those reports.

If not, then the accusations are unfounded and he should be ashamed.

But, what I don't like, is the demeaning temperament of the posts. It is one thing to point out Scripture error. It is a whole not matter to call someone a liar. Frankly, I am disappointed the moderators and administrators are not clamping down on such name calling.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Yes indeed....I am am proud to be a cheerleader for fellow baptists when they are exposing falsehood.



I am now anti dispensational yes, that is true. That does not mean I hate these men. I have learned much by each of these men, and they seemed to be godly teachers.
That being said...even a godly teacher can go off on a topic based on a wrong hermenutic, or some other reason. I can keep the issues distinct.

Nor do I hate these men and in fact they have been the first that I have learned from. Over time I have found error in what they teach, so now I am leery of them, and I do not get much from what they have to say. They have a faulty teaching on the foundation of the gospel and evidence of salvation. I've moved past their teachings yet this does not mean that I believe they are unconverted.

 

[agedman]

OH, OK, remain in your willful pretense of ignorance. A person who has allegedly been around as long as you would know and would have heard these things many times so I don't buy your story. I've only been converted some 30 years and knew about this 25 years ago.

What is obvious? That you refuse to see.

So, are you saying you have no first hand account of the teaching of DTS?

Are you admitting that you have no eye witness accounts of the classroom interaction of DTS?

Isn't it a matter of Scripture principle that a believer who makes such accusations against the brethren must have at LEAST two or three witnesses?

Unless you can produce eye witness testimony of first hand accounts, then it would certainly seem you have little proof to offer, and are in fact in violation of Scripture, yourself.

Perhaps, I am wrong, and you can bring the proof. That is all I have asked and all that the Scriptures require.