'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved'

[DHK]

Keep pretending you've never been answered.

What Scripture did you provide that I was to refute? Provide that.

Believe me nothing you say needs re read or read slow. That you are inconsistent, confused, heterodox and all over the place on faith is readily seen.

You say faith isn't given to men by God.

Correct, faith is not given to the unregenerate. All men have faith. It is innate.

Then you say all men have it including the unsaved.

Jesus said even little children had faith.
Jesus healed ten lepers "according to their faith." But only one came back. Only one was saved.
Jesus said of an unsaved Roman centurion, that he had greater faith than any one in all Israel, and yet there is no evidence that he was saved.
Many came to Jesus and were healed "according to their faith," but were not necessarily saved.
All men have faith.

Then you argue how asinine it is for Scripture and us to argue God gives to unregenerate men faith something you now argue unregenerate men have already.

You can't see the contradiction in your own statement here??
God doesn't give the unregenerate faith. I didn't call God asinine; I called your position asinine. Get it straight!! God does not have to give the unregenerate faith; all men have faith.

Now you are arguing above 'however all faith isn't given to all men'.

To the saved, there is a spiritual gift (or was) called the gift of faith.
To the saved, there is a fruit of the Spirit called faith.
God does not give these gifts or fruits to the unsaved. But faith in general--all men have.

There you go! Faith is innate you say, including the unsaved then you mock when it is shown God grants the unregenerate faith. This shows how man-centric your system is.

It has not been shown. Where has it been shown. I am still waiting. Nowhere does it say that God gives the unregenerate faith. You haven't demonstrated that.

You praise man for innate faith.

Slow down there "Silver." I stated a fact. I didn't praise anyone.

You mock Scriptures provided showing it is God who grants faith.

I didn't mock scripture. I gave you a detailed explanation how that scripture is taken out of context. It refers to a historical event that will never again be repeated in history, and yet you have the gall to use it for any time or any person in history. Nothing like butchering the Word of God is there?

Your argument on the rich man is the same. You make it his responsibility to get himself saved or make a move, decision, exercise his own power source of faith, trying to prove man can do this. John 3 shows man cannot do this, it comes from above.

I don't know what you are talking about. The rich man went away sorrowful for he trusted in his riches more than he desired Christ. That is obvious.

But as usual you're in error.

In the same context the disciples were perplexed about this rich man and eternal life and asked the Christ of God 'Who then can be saved?' The Christ answered 'With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible'. That's right, man cannot, as it is an impossibility but you argue that he can.

It was Christ that said a rich man could enter into heaven. Don't you believe the Scriptures. Paul himself used to be a rich man. Many rich men have entered into heaven.

I'm siding with Christ not your man made man exalting soteriology. You're plainly wrong here as usual. Now put a spin on it and show us all how it is possible contrary to what the Christ of God did plainly show. You're an expert at it.

You are in need of comprehension. Christ did not say it is impossible. He said "How hardly shall a rich man enter into heaven."
In another translation it is put this way:
Mark 10:23 Jesus looked around, and said to his disciples, "How difficult it is for those who have riches to enter into the Kingdom of God!" (WEB)
It is difficult, not impossible.

You have enough to answer about what Christ said above and give Him all the glory and none to man.

You're simply making the same error still claiming that man can when the Christ of God, being consistent, is showing man cannot, 'with men it is impossible...'

I give God the glory in salvation. Others prefer to give Calvin the glory. Pity.

 

[InTheLight]

James 2:10. 'For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.'
Now, are you able to keep the whole moral law of God, constantly, perfectly and without exception? If not, what do you think you'd better do about any areas where you may fall short? I'd confess them before God and repent of them if I were you, and I'd make jolly sure that I didn't leave any out that I'm aware of.

Then I'd ask God to show me any areas of sin in my life that I'm unaware of. I'd pray, 'Search me, O God and know my heart; try me and know my anxieties; and see if there is any wicked way in me [any one at all] and lead me in the way everlasting.'

Sigh... You're missing the point. There is no verse that says "repent of your sins" as a condition of salvation. Once a person is justified before God, of course they will repent of their sins, and as a new creature in Christ they will not want to continue in their old sinful ways.

But you will not find "repent of your sins and you will be saved" in the Bible. That is a works based salvation. That is something man does to find favor with God.

I can't believe that Calvinists can't comprehend this!

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo using Tapatalk.

 

[Iconoclast]

[QUOTE="DHK,

All men have faith. That is true.

or maybe not...
3 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Faith is innate.

you cannot find any verse that says....."faith is innate"
There is no verse in all Scripture that says;."faith is innate"
It is unbiblical borderline heresy. The Bible does not teach it. You have never given one scripture that advocates it.

Faith is practiced by man every day; not faith in God

We are talking about saving faith so this is useless.


J

 

[DHK]

How many sins do you think repentance means that you should repent of? Which sins do you think you can carry on with? Just wondering.

All of them. That is why the statement (used by many preachers), is so unbiblical. No man can repent of all his sins, much less remember them. The Lord never puts that requirement on the unsaved. The statement never should be used by anyone. Don't tell me that is not what is meant by it. That is not the point. If an unsaved person hears a preacher tell him to do that, that is what he thinks. He doesn't know your "Bible-speak."

 

[Iconoclast]

CONTEXT:
Proverbs 28:12 When righteous men do rejoice, there is great glory: but when the wicked rise, a man is hidden.
13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
--It is speaking of the righteous or saved, not the unregenerate. There is no verse in the Bible that commands an unsaved man to repent of all his sins. My statement still stands, and you have not proved otherwise.

nonsense;
http://www.chapellibrary.org/files/5613/7643/3319/prov.pdf

 

[Martin Marprelate]

How many sins do you think repentance means that you should repent of? Which sins do you think you can carry on with? Just wondering.

All of them.

Thank you. I think that is very clear. So what does it mean when the Scripture says, 'But now [God] commands all men everywhere to repent' (Acts 17:30).
Does this mean that all men everywhere should repent of no sins, a few sins, most sins, or all sins?

 

[Iconoclast]

Good. I agree.

You realize you've just changed the argument.

Your post is answered by the links,and 1thess 1 and prov28:13

I offer you a counter argument....and you agreed.

 

[DHK]

[QUOTE="DHK,

or maybe not...
3 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Young's Literal Translation:
(YLT) and that we may be delivered from the unreasonable and evil men, for the faith is not of all;
IOW, it is "the faith," or the gospel message. All men are not saved. Faith always has an object. In the KJV the object is implied. "all men have not faith "in the gospel." They do have faith in many other things.

you cannot find any verse that says....."faith is innate"
There is no verse in all Scripture that says;."faith is innate"

There is no verse that says automobile either; not even Christology--does that mean we ought to never study about Christ or ride in a vehicle?
I have already demonstrated that faith is innate. Jesus used the example of little children having faith.
Those that he healed had faith but were not necessarily saved. Faith is innate.

It is unbiblical borderline heresy. The Bible does not teach it. You have never given one scripture that advocates it.

This speaks to the statement "repent of all your sins." It is not in the Bible. You haven't found it yet have you?

We are talking about saving faith so this is useless.

Faith is faith.
Saving faith is when one has Jesus Christ and his atoning work on the cross as the object of his faith.
The nature of faith is always the same. It is the object of faith that is important.

We are not mystics. We don't grow faith. It is not given to us in a vacuum. It is not mystical or existential. It is trust or confidence in what God has promised.

 

[DHK]

Thank you. I think that is very clear. So what does it mean when the Scripture says, 'But now [God] commands all men everywhere to repent' (Acts 17:30).
Does this mean that all men everywhere should repent of no sins, a few sins, most sins, or all sins?

See my answer to your question here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads...d-you-will-be-saved.97511/page-9#post-2194309

 

[Martin Marprelate]

See my answer to your question here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/threads...d-you-will-be-saved.97511/page-9#post-2194309

That isn't answering my question, that's fobbing me off.
So here's two questions for you. A yes or no answer will suffice for the first. For the second you may pick one of four options.

1. Do you believe that God commands all men everywhere to repent? Yes or no.
If you answer yes,
2. How many sins should all men everywhere repent of?
A. None.
B. A few.
C. Most.
D. All.

Answering that shouldn't take you more than a minute or two.

 

[Iconoclast]

Young's Literal Translation:

(YLT) and that we may be delivered from the unreasonable and evil men, for the faith is not of all;
IOW, it is "the faith," or the gospel message. All men are not saved. Faith always has an object. In the KJV the object is implied. "all men have not faith "in the gospel." They do have faith in many other things.

No it is not...that is you saying it.

There is no verse that says automobile either; not even Christology--does that mean we ought to never study about Christ or ride in a vehicle?

It is just as foolish as your post.

I have already demonstrated that faith is innate

.

no you did not...it is unbiblical borderline heresy. The Bible does not teach it. You have never given one scripture that advocates it.

Jesus used the example of little children having faith

.

No Jesus spoke of little children who were believers;
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Those that he healed had faith but were not necessarily saved. Faith is innate.

is unbiblical borderline heresy. The Bible does not teach it. You have never given one scripture that advocates it.It is not in the Bible. You haven't found it yet have you?

 

[Internet Theologian]

Correct, faith is not given to the unregenerate. All men have faith. It is innate.

Jesus said even little children had faith.
Jesus healed ten lepers "according to their faith." But only one came back. Only one was saved.
Jesus said of an unsaved Roman centurion, that he had greater faith than any one in all Israel, and yet there is no evidence that he was saved.
Many came to Jesus and were healed "according to their faith," but were not necessarily saved.
All men have faith.

You can't see the contradiction in your own statement here??
God doesn't give the unregenerate faith. I didn't call God asinine; I called your position asinine. Get it straight!! God does not have to give the unregenerate faith; all men have faith.

There you go again making it appear I said something I didn't say. You say it is absurd when we show you God grants faith. You mock it. Then you say man already has it. Man has it, but you ridicule where we show God grants it to men instead. Hmmmm.

I don't know what you are talking about. The rich man went away sorrowful for he trusted in his riches more than he desired Christ. That is obvious.

So do all unregenerate. Is this amazing to you? In his condition salvation is impossible with him, yet you teach it is possible because he has innate faith according to you. Again, the Christ of God says it is impossible. Wonder who is correct, you, or the Christ of God? I'm staying with the latter, the former is out on a limb and denying that what Christ said here is in fact true.

It was Christ that said a rich man could enter into heaven. Don't you believe the Scriptures. Paul himself used to be a rich man. Many rich men have entered into heaven.

Ahhhh, here you go with the implied 'you don't believe Scriptures' argument. I believe what Christ said, it is impossible. You believe it is possible.

You are in need of comprehension. Christ did not say it is impossible.

Really? He didn't? Here it is: "But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” - Matthew 19:26

Why are you denying that Christ said it? You are also denying it to be factual by arguing with man it is possible against the very words of Christ that you deny to be in the text. Again, wonder who is correct here?

He said "How hardly shall a rich man enter into heaven." In another translation it is put this way: Mark 10:23 Jesus looked around, and said to his disciples, "How difficult it is for those who have riches to enter into the Kingdom of God!" (WEB) It is difficult, not impossible.

It is difficult, not impossible are your words, not God's and frankly they sound eery. Why? Because that is pure works based soteriology and you my friend are teaching it! You are providing proof that you are teaching it is possible with man. To you it is hard, but MAN CAN DO IT!!! That is your mancentric message and you are preaching it right there above, adding to the Word of God.

But here is Christ yet again, saying something you claim He did not say:

But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” - Matthew 19:26

I give God the glory in salvation. Others prefer to give Calvin the glory. Pity.

More false accusations. Where did I quote Calvin? Was it when I told you that it was impossible for man to be saved, quoting the words of my Lord that you flipped out and thought this was Calvinisim'?

Show me where I quoted Calvin. Any honest person can plainly see all of my apology here was based on what Christ said and in rejecting your man centered ideology.

But dhk, I'm proud of you, yet again you are able to deceive yourself and put a spin on Scripture even denying that the Lord said what I quoted Him to say.

Twice.

Not one time did I say rich men can't be saved. But that is what you do, fabricate and distort Scripture (and my words) just as Jesus attributed this to others in the Scriptures. This twisting and casting doubt on what God said began in the garden.

What I did say is that the Christ of God said that salvation is impossible with men. All you are doing in your many words is taking what He said and making salvation possible for men when Christ showed this to be untrue.

No dhk you're not giving God the glory, you're giving man the glory.

I knew you could do it!

 

[Iconoclast]

I give God the glory in salvation. Others prefer to give Calvin the glory. Pity

.

Show where anyone said such a thing. You are questioning the salvation of all cals

 

[Internet Theologian]

Show where anyone said such a thing. You are questioning the salvation of all cals

Note above in my response that he says Christ did not say 'it is impossible'. He said this twice and is arguing that it is possible with man. Add to that his usual twisting of words.

 

[Internet Theologian]

All of them. That is why the statement (used by many preachers), is so unbiblical. No man can repent of all his sins, much less remember them. The Lord never puts that requirement on the unsaved. The statement never should be used by anyone. Don't tell me that is not what is meant by it. That is not the point. If an unsaved person hears a preacher tell him to do that, that is what he thinks. He doesn't know your "Bible-speak."

You're so close but so far away. You're arguing for man, attempting to make repentance and salvation possible with man, while at the same time saying repentance, in its true definition is impossible. Yep. Sure is. Each and every aspect of salvation is impossible with man.

The fact remains it is not possible with man, and man should be perplexed just as the disciples were 'Who then can be saved'? You only got three accurate words in your post above. I made those words bold, italicized, underlined.

 

[InTheLight]

That isn't answering my question, that's fobbing me off.
So here's two questions for you. A yes or no answer will suffice for the first. For the second you may pick one of four options.

1. Do you believe that God commands all men everywhere to repent? Yes or no.
If you answer yes,
2. How many sins should all men everywhere repent of?
A. None.
B. A few.
C. Most.
D. All.

Answering that shouldn't take you more than a minute or two.

Question #2 is begging the question.
Your question fails because it assumes the definition of repentance is "turn from your sin". It does not. It means to have a change of mind about Messiah.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo using Tapatalk.

 

[Iconoclast]

"InTheLight,

But you will not find "repent of your sins and you will be saved" in the Bible. That is a works based salvation. That is something man does to find favor with God.

I can't believe that Calvinists can't comprehend this!

Calvinists do not teach or say that.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Calvinists do not teach or say that.

No we don't teach this but that is the recourse they decide to take.

It is apparent we Calvinists believe salvation, in all of its aspects to be impossible with man.

It is also apparent the resident anti-cal believes salvation is possible with man ('It is difficult, not impossible' he says) and, he has said Christ did not say that. It's all quoted above.

Saying 'It is difficult, not impossible' (salvation) literally proves that to be a works-based salvation. Take note all of you.

 

[InTheLight]

"InTheLight,


Calvinists do not teach or say that.

Oh, C'mon man! You posted this yesterday (quoted below.) That excerpt plainly says turning from your sin is a necessity for eternal life:

--------
We have no right to consider ourselves in the way to eternal life, if we are strangers to repentance. Nor will it suffice to have been at some time alarmed about our sin. A false repentance, which needs to be repented of, satisfies many a deluded soul.

Genuine repentance is a deep-felt and abiding sense of sin, a condemnation of ourselves before God on account of it, a turning away from it with abhorrence and loathing, and a fixed purpose of soul never again to commit it, or be at peace with it. This sense of sin drives the soul to Christ, and unites with the exercise of faith in Christ, to distinguish genuine religion from the counterfeit.

---

This was in post #88, by the counting of posts in my browser.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo using Tapatalk.

 

[Iconoclast]

Question #2 is begging the question.
Your question fails because it assumes the definition of repentance is "turn from your sin". It does not. It means to have a change of mind about Messiah.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo using Tapatalk.

Oh, C'mon man! You posted this yesterday (quoted below.) That excerpt plainly says turning from your sin is a necessity for eternal life:

--------
We have no right to consider ourselves in the way to eternal life, if we are strangers to repentance. Nor will it suffice to have been at some time alarmed about our sin. A false repentance, which needs to be repented of, satisfies many a deluded soul.

Genuine repentance is a deep-felt and abiding sense of sin, a condemnation of ourselves before God on account of it, a turning away from it with abhorrence and loathing, and a fixed purpose of soul never again to commit it, or be at peace with it. This sense of sin drives the soul to Christ, and unites with the exercise of faith in Christ, to distinguish genuine religion from the counterfeit.

---

This was in post #88, by the counting of posts in my browser.

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo using Tapatalk.

this does not say what you want it to say.